The Rings Of Power. Wait, come back! It has the Tolkien seal of approval!

[Celgress]

Exactly.

There’s no real world analogy to be made with the orcs.

They are basically tools of war.

Well, child soldiers could be one. They are brainwashed (usually after being abducted) from a very young age to be nothing but tools of war, just saying.

[Username taken]

Well, child soldiers could be one. They are brainwashed (usually after being abducted) from a very young age to be nothing but tools of war, just saying.

Those kids can be rehabilitated.

Orcs can’t.

(At least as far as I know).

[Celgress]

Those kids can be rehabilitated.

Orcs can’t.

What about Cyclons, or Borg, or Jem'Hadar? Other fictional universes have shown that those vicious creatures can be "rehabilitated" once removed from the influence of their brethren or other controlling influence.

[Username taken]

What about Cyclons, or Borg, or Jem'Hadar? Other fictional universes have shown that those vicious creatures can be "rehabilitated" once removed from the influence of their brethren or other controlling influence.

If the evil/corrupting influence can be taken out of the individual, then I’d understand and have sympathy for them (that would make a genocide towards them quite extreme). Some of the destructive alien species you mentioned can be changed back into their human forms.

But as far as I know, orcs can’t be transformed back into their original state nor can they be rehabilitated. They are basically walking abominations. I would say the Orcs are more like Daleks.

[Celgress]

If the evil/corrupting influence can be taken out of the individual, then I’d understand and have sympathy for them (that would make a genocide towards them quite extreme). Some of the destructive alien species you mentioned can be changed back into their human forms.

But as far as I know, orcs can’t be transformed back into their original state nor can they be rehabilitated. They are basically walking abominations. I would say the Orcs are more like Daleks.

Neither can Cylons or Jem'Hadar (they were never humans) rather their behavior can be changed.

Even Daleks can be changed by an outside influence on rare occasions (we see it three times in the new series four if you count Dalek-Oswald).

[Scott Taylor]

Great episode but very tragic and heartbreaking. In the Lord of the Rings lore, there is no gray area. No half-orcs who run around fighting as paladins (thanks D&D), no full orcs who were raised by humans and end up good, none of that. Evil is evil and good is good. Galadriel and all elves are good by definition and orcs are evil by definition. Its not a system of good and evil based on actions, its based on nature. Elves can be corrupted by evil, like we see with Adar, but its not his choice but rather an act done to him by evil to convert him over.

And it was interesting to hear Adar's perspective. Kind of a "well from my perspective the Jedi are evil" vibe going there, but without the whininess. And he is so corrupted that he doesn't know he's corrupted.

I didn't mind everyone falling for the oldest trick in the book, the old switcheroo, because Tolkein basically was the first one who popularized those oldest tricks for the modern age. LotR is full of old tricks, because they weren't old when it was published!

[Exciter]

What about Cyclons, or Borg, or Jem'Hadar? Other fictional universes have shown that those vicious creatures can be "rehabilitated" once removed from the influence of their brethren or other controlling influence.

Or orcs. Warcraft did it. I think D&D recently did as well.

[Username taken]

Neither can Cylons or Jem'Hadar (they were never humans) rather their behavior can be changed.

Even Daleks can be changed by an outside influence on rare occasions (we see it three times in the new series four if you count Dalek-Oswald).

Yeah but that's where the order in LoTR are different. They are just created to be evil. They can't be changed in anyway.

[thwhtGuardian]

Yeah but that's where the order in LoTR are different. They are just created to be evil. They can't be changed in anyway.

They could be changed...but the show doesn't seem to be going that way. Other than Adar's speech there has been zero signs that these are creatures that want peace.

[80sbaby]

Yeah but that's where the order in LoTR are different. They are just created to be evil. They can't be changed in anyway.

This isn't true. And it's why DnD has changed how races work because saying a specific race is "evil" is pretty racist. Especially when it tends to be dark skinned and/or tribal type of creatures.

[Frobisher]

This isn't true. And it's why DnD has changed how races work because saying a specific race is "evil" is pretty racist. Especially when it tends to be dark skinned and/or tribal type of creatures.

Are there tribal-type humans in real life?

[Username taken]

This isn't true. And it's why DnD has changed how races work because saying a specific race is "evil" is pretty racist. Especially when it tends to be dark skinned and/or tribal type of creatures.

Yeah, there's been accusations of racism towards Tolkien work. Particularly in regards to how the orcs were described and depicted (which I suspect is why the producers of the series diversified the depiction of the other races).

I know that DnD changed how races work (there was a pretty big controversy about it some years back). Maybe that'll be the case in LoTR too as the new productions progress.

EDIT: The caveat with the LoTR orcs is they are corrupted forms of other creatures and aren’t naturally occurring. They aren’t actually a “real race” as such.

[80sbaby]

Are there tribal-type humans in real life?

You mean other than indigenous people?

[80sbaby]

EDIT: The caveat with the LoTR orcs is they are corrupted forms of other creatures and aren’t naturally occurring. They aren’t actually a “real race” as such.

Well they can procreate. So even if their origins are via magic, they are a real race now.

[Username taken]

Well they can procreate. So even if their origins are via magic, they are a real race now.

Orc sex…that’s something never crossed my mind.