Can Diversity Casting cause more harm than good?

[Mistah K88]

I could understand not having an Asian Man as the Ancient One because would not be PC however why they also changed the gender makes no damn sense. Why they didn't get a white man to play the Ancient One was achievable.

So it isn’t about fidelity after all.

[Ghost Rider TheHellfireDemon]

I already explained why it was necessary. You have yet to explain how it wasn't.

But getting a good actor is far more important than the visual aspect.

Keep in mind we aren't talking about what you or I prefer. I'm speaking as far as what a casting director would be looking for and it's effect on the final product.

While I agree with you about a good actor is far more important than a visual aspect it was achievable to get a good white actor to play the Human Torch so 20th Century Fox doesn't have a good excuse to justify why a good white actor wasn't cast as the Human Torch in that doesn't even seem like it's a finished movie awful (2015) FF movie.

[Ghost Rider TheHellfireDemon]

So it isn’t about fidelity after all.

I was explaining why that is a change I could understand even though I want a faithful adaption for the visual look of characters in comic book movies however it's also laughable and nonsensical that they also decided to change the gender of the Ancient 1 because it wouldn't be offensive or not PC if the Ancient One is a white man.

[9th.]

What was weird about the backlash towards comic version of RiRi is that she never replaced Tony. The entire series showed that she was brilliant but still not his equal.

The person who DID try to replace Tony was Doom. He took the Ironman mantle and everything. Yet no backlash.

That's how I knew outrage culture in comics was bs

[Moon Ronin]

The Ancient One was changed because of China. Disney didn't want have Tibetan leader like character especially one that has magical powers that can be compared to the to the Dalai Lama. The CCP would not have allowed the movie to be shown in the country. So Marvel went the complete opposite way as a financial choice not a creative one. In China Finn was reduced on the Star Wars posters and the Black Panther had his mask on in Chinese poster hiding Chadwick Boseman's face. The Eternals, Doctor Strange in the Multiverse was banned in Saudi Arabia and a other Islamic countries due to is depictions LGBT. And it is not only limited to super hero movies as the remake of West Side Story was also banned in the region for the same reason. Diversity Casting really has done on harm in North America and Europe (outside of neck beards on youtube and pod cast) but film studios jump through hoops to hide diversity in other countries like Disney does for China, or their movies just don't get shown in places like Islamic countries.

As for visuals, yes visuals are important in a visual media. Brandon Routh, Dean Cain, Tyler Hoechlin, Henry Cavill, and Christopher Reeve were all picked by a casting director because they all looked like Superman. Superman is an icon and when casting you're not looking for a blond hair surfer boy type. Daniel Radcliffe was cast becasue he had the look that both the author and the readers accepted as the Boy Who Lived. When casting it should be some one the audience accepts in the role. Roles like The Ancient One and Baron Mordo can have a larger net cast for the part becasue they would be relatively or completely unknown to a large majority of the audience. Where as the role as some one like Steve Rogers you have to narrow the scope to also find "the look".

[CSTowle]

What was weird about the backlash towards comic version of RiRi is that she never replaced Tony. The entire series showed that she was brilliant but still not his equal.

The person who DID try to replace Tony was Doom. He took the Ironman mantle and everything. Yet no backlash.

There are several reason for that, each of which should be fairly obvious to actual comic book fans arguing about the differences in backlash in good faith. 1. Doom is a villain, traditionally and eventually (whatever a current series may portray him as). It's like arguing fans were more upset with killing off Peter in the Ultimate Universe and replacing him with Miles than Doc Ock taking over Peter's body in the main universe. In other words, villains doing what you expect them to do and fans not being surprised in the slightest (clickbait articles on news sites like the main CBR aside).

2. I'm sure there was backlash about Riri's existence, because the internet exists and people can get upset about the color of a dress. But there wasn't much of it, because she's one of a billion legacy characters floating around. My worry again is what happens when she's not one of a billion floating around a fluid comic book universe, where things can be rebooted/retconned/imaginary-storied in the turn of a page but instead carrying the mantle of the most popular Disney superhero/adult cartoon star without the support and tacit endorsement of the man himself.

Honestly it would be nice if Disney could convince RDJr to come in just for a cameo/flashback and have her be part of Stark Industries and showing promise, just a few minutes, convincing him (money aside) that it's important for her ability to carry his legacy and fill his probably impossible to fill rocket boots that he signed off on it and he gives her the tip of the cap. It's probably too much to ask (but it'd be a hell of a surprise), but it'd be the smartest play.

Having her appear wholecloth in another franchise's sequel (not to mention one lacking its own main star, which is nobody's fault but already a knock against it even if it wasn't being currently carried by an anti-vaxer) without that endorsement or even connection is going to cause a disconnect with even casual fans, forget racist or just reactionary s##t-talking Disney haters.

Again, hope I'm wrong but it looks like a disaster waiting to happen. Or, best case, yet another legacy character who is at best a team player but not a franchise movie anchor. Which she could be, with a nod from the original and a bit of work (well worth whatever it costs Disney, and not like they can't afford it).

[Username taken]

That's how I knew outrage culture in comics was bs

Exactly.

Riri was never even Iron Man.

Doom took his place and tried to be a "better" Iron Man.

It was just basically people being treated at the sight of a black girl in a starring role. It was the same mouth breathers angry at Moon Girl.

[mace11]

I was reading some posts saying black dark skin represention in hollywood is underrepresented.
I don't agree.

The fact is Hollywood movies are still largely dominated by dark skinned black actors and actresses when compared to their light skinned counterparts. You can see that in nominations for oscars, golden globes and sag awards.

There are more dark or darker skin families shown on tv in america then light skin blacks.Dark skin blacks are the majority of blacks in america.

Now over times light skin and bi-racial black light skin families have been shown more often then they were in the past but dark skin blacks have been shown more still in american beauty commercials and tv shows and are still shown more in america.

Some of those american black families shows would show dark skin,medium tone or light skin family members,so there are black family shows that have shown dark and to light in the same family sometimes too.

So there are plenty of dark skin actors in roles in Hollywood.You tend see more black medium tone and black light skin women more then medium tone and light skin black men but most of the black actresss are dark skin.You tend see more dark skin black men then dark skin women however in Hollywood roles.

​Dark skin actress still get most of roles in america.

So yes there is still colorism to a certain extent in hollywood because hollywood is in america(this should be obvious because of america's race history problems and whites are still the major group, duh) and that needs still to be dealt with. Most black actors are still dark skin,more so the men however.

Lighter and medium tone skin actress are just happening to apply more for roles and more are being qualified for it but most of the actresses still in hollywood are dark skinned.By the way some actress and actors called light skin are not really light skin at all.Some are medium tone skin blacks.

[mace11]

UCLA’s “Hollywood Diversity Report 2022.
UCLA’s Hollywood Diversity Report Documents “Enormous Gains” By Women & People Of Color, But Latinx Representation Still Lags

Hollywood movies are more ethnically diverse than ever according to a new report from UCLA, which found that women and people of color “have made enormous gains” over the past decade in their share of leading roles in top-performing films.


UCLA’s “Hollywood Diversity Report 2022,” released Thursday, found that the percentage of leading roles played by people of color in last year’s top 200 films has nearly quadrupled since 2011; that their share of writing credits has more than quadrupled; and that their percentage of directing jobs has nearly tripled.

It also found that the percentage of women in leading roles has nearly doubled over the last decade; that their share of writing credits has more than doubled; and that the percentage of women directors has increased by more than fivefold over the past decade.

The report, co-authored by UCLA sociologists Dr. Darnell Hunt and Dr. Ana-Christina Ramón, is the latest indication that inclusion efforts by Hollywood’s unions and employers – with pressure from the Motion Picture Academy and the press – are working, though it notes that more work still needs to be done for women and minorities to achieve parity in front of and behind the camera.

See the full report here.

“Following the significant advances for people of color and women in 2020, both groups made small gains, or at least held their ground, relative to their white and male counterparts in 2021,” the report says. “As a result, both groups enjoyed proportionate representation among film leads and top film roles for the second year in a row.”

Even so, some minority groups fared better than others. The report notes that African Americans, who make up 13.4% of the U.S. population, were “slightly overrepresented” in leading film roles (15.5%) last year. Latinx creatives, on the other hand, who make up 18.7% of the population, “remain extremely underrepresented” in all the major film categories surveyed, accounting for just 7.1% of leads, 7.7% of overall cast, 5.6% of writers and 7.1% of directors.


Share of All Film Roles, by Race, 2021 (n=1,944)

The report found that multiracial persons, who make up 10.2% of the population, were at “proportionate representation” among film leads in 2021, constituting 10.3% of film leads.

Asian Americans, who account for 6% of the population, got 5.6% of the leading roles, while Native Americans, who make up 1.3% of the population, got only 0.4% of the leading roles. Native Americans, the report says, “remain virtually invisible in Hollywood, making up less than one percent of each job category tracked.”

People of Middle Eastern & North African (MENA) descent, who account for approximately 0.9% of the population, didn’t get any leading roles at all in the top-performing films last year, though they did make up 1.1% of overall cast, 2.8% of writers and 1.6% of directors.

Female actors, meanwhile, failed to reach parity with their male counterparts among white, Black, Asian and MENA actors in 2021, which the report says, “is likely related to the fact that decisions about which film projects will be greenlighted – and which stories will be told – are still overwhelming made by white men.”

Overall, however, women have made great strides over the past decade, according to the survey, which looked at the top 200 theatrical – and all major streaming – English-language films released in 2021.

“Like people of color, women have made enormous gains over the course of this report series in their share of top film leads,” the report says. “Women accounted for 47.2% of film leads in 2021, virtually unchanged from the 47.8% evident in 2020 but nearly double the share the group posted in 2011 (25.6%).”

Women also posted gains among the ranks of directors and writers, though they remain underrepresented despite significant progress in recent years. “Since the previous report, women have inched forward relative to their male counterparts among the directors of top Hollywood films,” the report says. “Women claimed 21.8% of these critical positions in 2021, up just slightly from 20.5% in 2020.

Between 2011, the first year examined in this report series, and 2021, women’s share of directors increased more than fivefold – from 4.1% to 21.8%. Despite these significant gains, women remained underrepresented by a factor of more than two-to-one in this employment arena in 2021.”

Women’s share of the writer credits rose to 33.5% in 2021, an increase of more than seven percentage points over the 26% they posted for 2020. “This increase continues an upward trend for women screenwriters evident over the course of this report series. Indeed, women’s share of screenwriters in 2021 was more than double the 14.1% figure observed in 2011. Still, women would have to increase their 2021 share by nearly 20 percentage points to reach parity with men in this employment arena.”

Hunt, dean of the social sciences at UCLA and co-author of the report, said that “In 2020, minorities reached proportionate representation for the first time when it comes to overall cast diversity in films, and that held true in 2021. We suspect this is at least somewhat due to the outsize impact of the number of films we analyzed that were released direct-to-streaming. We also think this dual-release strategy is probably here to stay and could have a lasting impact on diversity metrics in front of and behind the camera in the future as studios think about how to finance content for different platforms.”

Audiences are also becoming increasingly diverse. “The minority share of the U.S. population is growing by nearly half a percent each year,” the report notes. “Constituting nearly 43% of the U. S. population in 2021, people of color will become the majority within a couple of decades.”

The report found that eight of the top 10 theatrically released films in 2021 featured casts that were greater than 30% minority, and that for the first time since researchers began tracking, the majority of Oscar-winning films from 2020 were helmed by directors of color and featured minority leads.

“Looking at last year, every time there was a big movie that exceeded expectations or broke a record, we see that between 53%-60% of opening weekend audiences were people of color,” said co-author Ramón. “People essentially were risking their lives to go the movies during a pandemic. For people of color and especially for Latino families, theaters provided an excursion when mostly everything was shut down. In a sense, people of color really kept the studios afloat the past couple of years. Studios should consider them to be investors, and as an investor, they should get their return, in the form of representation.”

“In 2021, diversity in front of the camera did not equate to more opportunities behind the camera for filmmakers who are women and people of color,” Ramón said. “They continue to receive less financing, even when they make films with white leads. Most of these filmmakers are relegated to low-budget films. The chronic underinvestment in women and people of color creates limited opportunities for them to showcase their talents to a wider audience.”

Looking at directors from the top films of 2021, 21.8% were women and 30.2% were people of color. In writing roles, 33.5% were women and 32.3% people of color. These were both incrementally steady gains over 2020.

“The final frontier is really behind the camera for women of color,” Ramón said.

The report found that of the 76 minority directors of 2021’s top films, just 23 were women. Black, Latino and multiracial women were outpaced by at least 2-to-1 by men from those groups. Asian and Native American women directors achieved parity with Asian and Native American men, though their numbers remain very small. Just nine Asian American men and eight Asian American women directed top-performing films last year. One Native American woman and one Native American man were in the 2021 directing data.

White women are also still greatly outnumbered by white men in the directing category – 32 total women compared to 143 men last year. And there was only one trans woman director in 2021’s crop of top films.

And as the percentage of people of color in key areas has increased, so too has the white percentage decreased. The white share of all top film roles dropped to 56.9% in 2021, down from 58% in 2020. “As a result, whites were slightly underrepresented among featured film roles in 2021,” the report says.


FIGURE 5: Share of Film Directors, by Race, 2021 (n = 252)


FIGURE 3: Share of Film Writers, by Race, 2021 (n=251)


Considering each minority group separately, African Americans accounted for 9.5% of the directing jobs; Latinx 7.1%; Asian 6.7%, multiracial 4.4%, and Native Americans 0.8%. All were underrepresented compared to their share of the population.


The white share of writers of Hollywood’s top films also declined again since last year’s report, down from 74.1% in 2020 to 67.7% in 2021. The report notes that “almost all individual minority groups remained underrepresented last year, with African Americans receiving 10.4% of the writing credits; Latinx 5.6%; Asian 4%; multiracial 8.8%; and Native American 0.8%.

[mace11]

Part 2
UCLA’s Hollywood Diversity Report Documents “Enormous Gains” By Women & People Of Color, But Latinx Representation Still Lags

The trend towards diversity is also being reflected at the Academy Awards in the wake of the #OscarsSoWhite campaign.


“Findings from this report document that the groundbreaking collection of diverse nominees for the 2021 Oscar ceremony also resulted in an unprecedented number of diverse award winners,” the report says. “Indeed, English-language films with relatively diverse casts, directors of color, and leads of color gained considerable ground at the 93rd annual Academy Awards compared to the year before. Most notably, the majority of Oscar-winning films from 2020 were helmed by directors of color and featured minority leads, both firsts over the course of this report series. For women, however, the picture was mixed. While women directors treaded water relative to their male counterparts in helming Oscar-winning films, films with women leads fell further behind among Oscar-winning films.”

In its conclusion, the report says that its findings “document that increasingly diverse audiences continued to flex their muscles at the box office and on streaming platforms in 2021, driving domestic ticket sales for the top 10 theatrical releases and accounting for a disproportionate share of the audiences for the top 10 streaming releases. Findings also show that diverse audiences, now market anchors in the film sector, clearly preferred diverse content. That is, the lion’s share of the most highly rated films among diverse households in 2021 – and increasingly among White households and viewers 18-49 – featured casts that were at least 30 percent minority.

“Following our conclusion in the previous report, Hollywood would benefit greatly from embracing 2021’s (re)affirmation of the bottom-line possibilities associated with major advances on the diversity front – particularly in a sector reordered by the ascendance of streaming platforms. People of color constituted nearly 43% of the U.S. population in 2021, and their share is increasing by about half a percent a year. This trend, combined with diverse audiences’ heavy engagement with original, streaming film content, underscores the importance of diversity as a first-order business imperative for the film industry.”

UCLA’s Hollywood Diversity Report Documents “Enormous Gains” By Women & People Of Color, But Latinx Representation Still Lags
https://deadline.com/2022/03/ucla-ho...gs-1234985280/

[Mister Mets]

I was reading some posts saying black dark skin represention in hollywood is underrepresented.
I don't agree.

This seems short on data.

I can understand one reason for that. Colorism is a sensitive topic, and anyone trying to identify what percentage of African-American actors are dark-skinned or light-skinned or have medium tone for the purposes of an analysis is going to have an awkward time.

But they would need to compare the opportunities actors get (which is a different question than who gets awards) with the demographics of the larger population to make the argument that darker skin color is advantageous for an actor.

[The Gold Stream]

i picked the last option in the poll, i am content to let the artist or casting director decide who gets what role