Can Diversity Casting cause more harm than good?

[Moon Ronin]

Don't you think that its a very loud and noisy minority? I don't know anyone in real life who is offended of Finn. And almost everyone of my friends has seen Star Wars.

Its is a very loud and noisy minority that is further amplified by the media and studios reaction to the minority. If you look up reaction criticism and Finn, Rose or Reva you'll find way more defense of their casting a diverse actor then any defense/criticism of the creative choices of the actual character. Not saying that there should not be any push back against the hate that is spewed over the internet by adult children that thrive on clicks and and attention. But the missive about of responses that the attention seeking morons get only feeds them to ramp up ad do even more. And Media outlets are not any better as making articles on hate expelling neck beards gets way more clicks than an actual critical analysis of the material.

Criticism on the mentioned Star Wars Characters; Finn: Completely underused! Was set up in the Force Awakens to be an awesome addition to the Star Wars universe but was completely wasted in the follow up movies. Which leads in to Rose: A completely useless character that wasted Finns potential by taking him on a side quest that "teaches" the former slave soldier that slavery is bad and that war is a convoluted mess were lines get blurred, like he needed to learn that. And Reva, first it's a bait and switch in which we tune in to watch Obi-Wan and end up with the Reva story with a little Obi-Wan on the side, then her story ends up being to get revenge for herself and the Jedi she goes around killing Jedi and seeking to kill small children? A poorly written character. But instead of these Criticism entertainment media focuses more on the small group that scream about diversity demolishing there childhood or what ever.

Another thing. The hate towards the actors/actresses. You can dislike a character or the story line that they are in but, the person playing that character has noting to do with it. They didn't cast themselves, they didn't write their script, they didn't direct or edit their scenes. These are people that were hired to do a job and that is it. I really don't understand how people can go after a person that had no creative control over their character because they didn't like the character. Its asinine, and I wish for the sake of humanity that people will at the least stop personal attacks on entertainers for just playing a part in a stupid movie or TV show.

Sounds plausible. Why invest money in something you don't know if it works, when you can have it the easy way?

That is way you see a bunch of remakes, reboots and sequels. It all comes with a built in fan base.

[hyped78]

Very small sample size, but interesting to see the results of this poll, "Good" is less than 50% - I wouldn't have expected that

[Catlady in training]

Didn't they do that in Star Wars and someone like Finn (a nameless Stormtrooper mind you) was still met with vitriol by "fans"? Same with Rose Tico, Reva Sevander, etcetera.

Same with Rings of Power now.

[Crazy Diamond]

Poll asks the wrong question... why is it diversity casting instead of just casting? Does the process suddenly change if the performer isn't white? Or straight? Or male?

[godisawesome]

The casting, in and of itself, is not enough of an impact to actually be a solution or a “problem.”

A racist or simply privileged creative company can just as easily find excuses to sideline or denigrate original POC characters as they can screw up casting a character in a role with an actor of a different race. By the same token, it’s much harder for a more diverse creative company to do either.

John Boyega wound up proven as the best leading man of the Star Wars Sequels when his character was written with a modicum more respect in his first movie than the next two… and LFL was so insecure about him being more charismatic than Adam Driver and his role being deeper than Kylo Ren that they sabotaged him.

Similarly, making Wally West black in the comics could have worked in theory… if it weren’t for DC immediately going as painfully cliched as possible in a racist way.

Or like how that Game of Thrones episode had the writing and directing change the story so that Jamie raped Cersei, almost by complete accident because there was no woman there to point it out to the male director, writer, and show runners.

It’s simply a lot harder to repeat those mistakes if the writing room, directing room, and executive board has more diversity.

[skyvolt2000]

Sounds plausible. Why invest money in something you don't know if it works, when you can have it the easy way?

It's more of why PAY someone for a new idea. When you can dig in your vault for something you already OWN.

Something you own and STILL use an idea.

The reason you are seeing all these remakes and in name ONLY shows is because those companies OWN the rights to them.

A pitch RUMORED to be done for Paramount about a space station in deep far space gets passed over. Later a show about a space station in deep space with a wormhole is announced.

Hello Star Trek Deep Space 9 instead of Babylon 5. The MAJOR difference in both shows-the lead is a single WIDOWED father.

Why not invent new characters that are black, asian, gay, lesbian and so on? Hollywood seems to be lazy these days. Invent new franchises.

They are and have always been creating them.
The issue at hand is not just pushback but SUPPORT.

Along with SUPPORT for who you already HAVE.

Take Riri Williams. Why do we NEED her when RHODEY had a niece? Ironman already had a black girl in his world.

Why do you need Duke Thomas when you could of used Kevin Hudman from Tim Drake's Robin run since you are now using Bernard-who was in that run too?

I could have a FIELD day in DC's vault putting together characters and not creating a new one.

[9th.]

I'd say racist trolling and actual death treats towards the actors far outweigh the "cons" of diversity casting.

[Agent Z]

Its is a very loud and noisy minority that is further amplified by the media and studios reaction to the minority. If you look up reaction criticism and Finn, Rose or Reva you'll find way more defense of their casting a diverse actor then any defense/criticism of the creative choices of the actual character. Not saying that there should not be any push back against the hate that is spewed over the internet by adult children that thrive on clicks and and attention. But the missive about of responses that the attention seeking morons get only feeds them to ramp up ad do even more. And Media outlets are not any better as making articles on hate expelling neck beards gets way more clicks than an actual critical analysis of the material.

Criticism on the mentioned Star Wars Characters; Finn: Completely underused! Was set up in the Force Awakens to be an awesome addition to the Star Wars universe but was completely wasted in the follow up movies. Which leads in to Rose: A completely useless character that wasted Finns potential by taking him on a side quest that "teaches" the former slave soldier that slavery is bad and that war is a convoluted mess were lines get blurred, like he needed to learn that.

Finn being a former slave doesn't make him an experienced and wise person. It just makes him a former slave. He'll have his own blindspots and things he is not aware of just like anybody else. It's not as if he would have been educated on Canto Bight by the First Order.

And while I agree that Rise of Skywalker screwed up Finn, I find it odd that people complain about him doing stuff that ultimately has nothing to do with Rey even though him being a Rey sidekick was a big source of contention in the third sequel.

And Reva, first it's a bait and switch in which we tune in to watch Obi-Wan and end up with the Reva story with a little Obi-Wan on the side

This is simply untrue.

[Zero Hunter]

The main problem with "diversity" casting is in Hollywood is it always means the same thing. It 99% of the time means black and of that most shoot for a black woman somewhere on the LGBTQ+ scale to check all teh boxes. Never mind the Latino, Asian, Indian, Native American, Pacific Islanders, and all the rest. When you hear diversity in regards to entertainment it means black people. If they were really going for representation then we would be seeing a whole lot more of the others groups instead of always the same group.

[Agent Z]

The main problem with "diversity" casting is in Hollywood is it always means the same thing. It 99% of the time means black and of that most shoot for a black woman somewhere on the LGBTQ+ scale to check all teh boxes. Never mind the Latino, Asian, Indian, Native American, Pacific Islanders, and all the rest. When you hear diversity in regards to entertainment it means black people. If they were really going for representation then we would be seeing a whole lot more of the others groups instead of always the same group.

The reason for this is because black characters were fairly close to mainstream already, if not already there and it took a long time to get to that point. It isn't because of some favoritism towards black actors over those from other minority groups.

Let's not pretend that black female leads, let alone black LGBT leads are that common.

[CSTowle]

No, it's true there is an overrepresentation of black actors in media and especially when it comes to claims of "diversity". I'd say that's partly because there are many long-time organizations built around defending and promoting civil rights and opportunities for black Americans, where there's not nearly as strong a movement of the same for Asian/Native/Latino/etc. Americans.

There should be a better effort to include groups other than black Americans in mainstream projects, and it would be nice if black Americans in the industry put more effort into helping that become a reality. After all, they have a better understanding of what it's like to be excluded or marginalized.

[Username taken]

The main problem with "diversity" casting is in Hollywood is it always means the same thing. It 99% of the time means black and of that most shoot for a black woman somewhere on the LGBTQ+ scale to check all teh boxes. Never mind the Latino, Asian, Indian, Native American, Pacific Islanders, and all the rest. When you hear diversity in regards to entertainment it means black people. If they were really going for representation then we would be seeing a whole lot more of the others groups instead of always the same group.

No, it's true there is an overrepresentation of black actors in media and especially when it comes to claims of "diversity". I'd say that's partly because there are many long-time organizations built around defending and promoting civil rights and opportunities for black Americans, where there's not nearly as strong a movement of the same for Asian/Native/Latino/etc. Americans.

There should be a better effort to include groups other than black Americans in mainstream projects, and it would be nice if black Americans in the industry put more effort into helping that become a reality. After all, they have a better understanding of what it's like to be excluded or marginalized.

I have to push back a bit on this and a couple of things need to be clarified.

1. Black people are the second largest racial group in the US and have been drastically under-represented over time. Latino/Hispanic is not a race as a good chunk of Latinos/Hispanics are white. Progress regarding black representation is only just recently been made on this front. The second largest ethnic group in the US is Latino/Hispanic and I also agree that greater representation of the Hispanic community is necessary too.

2. A lot of "black" representation features a lot of light-skinned biracial people. The US only just started recognizing biracial people as a group, for the longest time because of the passed-down culture of "one-drop laws" biracial people are considered black. Pure black representation is still pretty terrible. It's a point of discussion within the black community about how much people of purely black descent have been marginalized but the white entertainment industry is very quick to pick light-skinned biracial people.

I do agree that we should see other races represented more but we shouldn't act like black representation is analogous to diversity when said diversity still features performers that are partially white. Also, as Agent Z pointed black female LGBT representation is still sorely lacking.

[Username taken]

Poll asks the wrong question... why is it diversity casting instead of just casting? Does the process suddenly change if the performer isn't white? Or straight? Or male?

Quoted in agreement.

[useridgoeshere]

Black actors are under-represented in lead roles in movies. McKinsey actually studied it. Only 11% from 2015-2019. Yes, other groups are also under-represented but the film industry is still overly white and male, including acting. Behind the camera - producers, directors, writers - it was even worse.

In streaming, in 2019, McKinsey found Black actors were less than 5% of leads. Only place they were slightly over-represented as leads was cable at 14%.

[godisawesome]

Finn being a former slave doesn't make him an experienced and wise person. It just makes him a former slave. He'll have his own blindspots and things he is not aware of just like anybody else. It's not as if he would have been educated on Canto Bight by the First Order.

And while I agree that Rise of Skywalker screwed up Finn, I find it odd that people complain about him doing stuff that ultimately has nothing to do with Rey even though him being a Rey sidekick was a big source of contention in the third sequel.

But by the same token, nothing about Finn being an escaped slave soldier from a despotic government should equal naivety, much like how nothing in Rey’s backstory should equal naivety, and how inhumanly stupid it is for her to be naive about Kylo.

TLJ screwed him over from the word go, with focus and antipathy, if not malice; The Rise of Skywalker was simply forced into following TLJ’s racist (and boring) treatment of the character, and John Boyega’s strongly implied that was the will of LFL carrying on some insecurity first expressed by Rian Johnson towards Finn.

Rose has a great actress in Kelly Marie Tran… but make no mistake - Rose’s purpose in Johnson’s TLJ script was to retcon out some of Finn’s previous growth because of his connection to Rey and prominence in the storyline. It’s why KMT was so monumentally wasted in a role that you can tell Johnson hismelf didn’t find or even want to be that interesting; she’s there to be a Not-Rey, Not-Important background character who can tug Finn into the background of the trilogy.

Finn being Rey’s sidekick in TROS is far more about catering to overly-sensitive TLJ fans in LFL than about what happens when you pair him with Rey - while Finn being separated from Rey was just one of the many ways TLJ set about denigrating and devaluing the character; they also made sure he had no significant impact on the plot elsewhere, and surgically removed any care Rey had for him in her interactions with Kylo (as well as her self-respect, applicable POV, characterization…)

TLJ is arguably the worst example of a film twisting itself into a pretzel to try and breakdown real representation and diversity into mere tokenism; the only character’s who’s POV matter in that story are uniformly white, and generally male, and always a bit privileged.

It’s bad because Rey, Finn, and even Poe were all much more developed before TLJ came out than they were afterwards, far more successful before than afterwards, and not yet racist or sexist caricatures like they were afterwards.

(Severe sarcasm incoming.)

Rey exited TFA as an actualized and motivated action hero with denial issues who could have been played by a guy or girl, and left TLJ as a weird mix of Kylo’s advocate, would-be healer, abuse victim, and enabler because she’s a girl and couldn’t possibly have been actualized by TFA seeing her stalked by a monster who tortured and violated her before maiming and murdering her now found-family, see?

Finn exited TFA as a fully realized character who’s also been actualized by the big picture, saved billions of people, as the closest person to Rey, and had his own feud with Kylo caused by their personality contrast, and then left TLJ as a background comedic character constantly being “taught lessons” of dubious quality and who couldn’t even exchange words with Rey or have her care about what happened to him when she wants to make kissy-face with his maimer, because he was black and an extrovert, and couldn’t possibly connect with introverted white dudes, see?

And Poe… I mean, Poe had exited TFA as a mature and professional military man, so of course he had to become a Hot Blooded Latino stereotype because he was charismatic and fun, because of course no one can believe that, right?

(Sarcasm over)

And the side-effect of making everything about sad, privileged white guys was that everything got really freakin’ boring.

No, TLJ doesn’t demand you hate Rey, Finn, and Poe to like Ben Solo and it’s version of Luke… but it’d be a nice POV to have in TLJ’s opinion.