Can Diversity Casting cause more harm than good?

[Mistah K88]

This often repeated talking point that redheads are being erased on screen is actually very funny, because:

1) The proportion on redhaired characters in comics and animated movies/series is nowhere close to reality.
2) With some exceptions, most of these characters have red hair color that does not appear anywhere in nature, so we can either assume that these characters have hair of different color that they dye red, or just shrug and take it as the artist's creative licence, same as with characters with platinum/blue/green/purple, etc. hair color.
3) Similar to the above, redhaired characters (especially if they try for comic accuracy with bright red) are rarely played by naturally red or ginger haired actors. Case in point, actors like Nicole Kidman or Benedict Cumberbatch who are ginger rarely play characters with their own hair color, while many famously redhaired characters have been played by actors who dyed their hair for the role, like Kirsten Dunst as Mary Jane.
4) Many of these characters that are originally redhaired and white still have red hair in adaptations when they are played by nonwhite actors, for example Starfire in Titans or the new Little Mermaid.
5) This complain rarely comes up when characters are played by white actors but with different hair color (Val Kilmer as Bruce Wayne, Ben Affleck as Daredevil,...)

Starfire isn't white though... she's always been orange (like Orions from Star Trek are green). That particular case of racist bs what her actress had to deal with baffled me more than anyone else.

[Catlady in training]

Starfire isn't white though... she's always been orange (like Orions from Star Trek are green). That particular case of racist bs what her actress had to deal with baffled me more than anyone else.

Yeah, good point.

[Ragged Maw]

So every one is all good with the casting of the deities in Gods of Egypt now?

Since like the Norse pantheon, they're mythical beings from a bygone religion then the "free real estate" notion applies, sure. Still, I wouldn't consider that film a "tight" inverse comparison to, say, MCU's myth-based gods in terms of casting optics.

[9th.]

Starfire isn't white though... she's always been orange (like Orions from Star Trek are green). That particular case of racist bs what her actress had to deal with baffled me more than anyone else.

That seriously pissed me off, Starfire is a orange alien. Anna Diop didn't deserve any of that mess.

[ed2962]

Starfire isn't white though... she's always been orange (like Orions from Star Trek are green). That particular case of racist bs what her actress had to deal with baffled me more than anyone else.

I hope I'm not mis-remembering this, but I want to say in the old comics someone mistook Kori for being Mediterranean? So in America that means you either be a brown person or a white person with a deep tan.

[ed2962]

I posted this in the "Controversial Opinions" Thread but it applies here as well...

But really, I think people get mad about things that other people on the internet tell them to get mad about. In the Deadpool comics, Blind Al and Domino are white women, but in the movies they were played by black actresses and none of these people who supposedly care about "accuracy" or "respecting the source material" said a word.

A lot of people ragged on the Harley Quinn movie for alleged "feminism" but none of them noticed that Black Canary was played by a black woman despite being white blonde in the comics and cartoons.

And more recently, the "Stan Lee is rolling in his grave over She-Hulk twerking" crowd didn't have a peep to say about white Thunderball.

Alot of this outrage is driven by clicks and you just aren't going to get as much engagement talking about race swapped Domino as you are claiming that Batman has supposedly gone woke.

[achilles]

In Thor Love and Thunder, minor spoiler....


Russell Crowe hilariously plays Zeus with a thick Greek accent. Kind of puts all those Shakespearean Zeus in perspective.

Greek? I thought it was more Super Mario Brothers. Or my old barber, from Italy.

[Username taken]

I posted this in the "Controversial Opinions" Thread but it applies here as well...

But really, I think people get mad about things that other people on the internet tell them to get mad about. In the Deadpool comics, Blind Al and Domino are white women, but in the movies they were played by black actresses and none of these people who supposedly care about "accuracy" or "respecting the source material" said a word.

A lot of people ragged on the Harley Quinn movie for alleged "feminism" but none of them noticed that Black Canary was played by a black woman despite being white blonde in the comics and cartoons.

And more recently, the "Stan Lee is rolling in his grave over She-Hulk twerking" crowd didn't have a peep to say about white Thunderball.

Alot of this outrage is driven by clicks and you just aren't going to get as much engagement talking about race swapped Domino as you are claiming that Batman has supposedly gone woke.

Good point.

I actually said something similar in the Little Mermaid thread in the other forum.

No one really cares about this stuff. Except for the hardest of the hardcore bigots, no one is really upset that Ariel or Starfire is black. It’s more like people following directions from the anti-woke crowd and just running with the narratives.

That doesn’t justify their racism but it’s just a thing that’s happening.

[Mister Mets]

On the first quote and to Mets point on the same, these are myths/superstitions that started locally and died out before much interaction with the wider world so it's expected that if we were to talk to ancient vikings or Native Americans or Chinese and ask them what their gods looked like it's expected they would look like the locals, and not like a diverse mix of humanity. The expectation that they would or even might be is the ridiculous take.

But again, we're not talking about the ancient Norse (or Native American/Chinese/etc.) gods, we're talking about Disney's superhero race of interdimensional high-tech beings (who are almost certainly shown not to be "gods" because they'd catch flak from American right-wingers and others in certain parts of the world for blasphemy reasons). By saying we should expect the ancient Norse gods wouldn't just be Norse but represent all of humanity you're attempting to apply logic to religion, which is never a good idea.

As to rural white culture, they're still getting more than their share of available culture and especially when you compare to groups like Latinos or Native Americans.

It seems to me that if Gods are presented as if they were real, they should be diverse and represent all of humanity, rather than the area where their followers are.

If the story is presented differently (IE- it is the way locals would understand events, some kind of aliens pretend to be Gods to trick local humans which Earth X kinda did with the Asgardians, different regions are understood to have their own Gods) it's a different situation and it makes sense for the Gods to resemble the locals.

So every one is all good with the casting of the deities in Gods of Egypt now?

There are going to be a lot of views here.

One argument is that minority groups should be able to have their own versions of these iconic stories just like white people do.

Starfire isn't white though... she's always been orange (like Orions from Star Trek are green). That particular case of racist bs what her actress had to deal with baffled me more than anyone else.

Good point.

There is some pushback against minority actors in makeup playing aliens, since in some ways, it's not representation.

[Catlady in training]

It seems to me that if Gods are presented as if they were real, they should be diverse and represent all of humanity, rather than the area where their followers are.

If the story is presented differently (IE- it is the way locals would understand events, some kind of aliens pretend to be Gods to trick local humans which Earth X kinda did with the Asgardians, different regions are understood to have their own Gods) it's a different situation and it makes sense for the Gods to resemble the locals.

This is a good point.

[CSTowle]

I posted this in the "Controversial Opinions" Thread but it applies here as well...

But really, I think people get mad about things that other people on the internet tell them to get mad about. In the Deadpool comics, Blind Al and Domino are white women, but in the movies they were played by black actresses and none of these people who supposedly care about "accuracy" or "respecting the source material" said a word.

A lot of people ragged on the Harley Quinn movie for alleged "feminism" but none of them noticed that Black Canary was played by a black woman despite being white blonde in the comics and cartoons.

And more recently, the "Stan Lee is rolling in his grave over She-Hulk twerking" crowd didn't have a peep to say about white Thunderball.

Alot of this outrage is driven by clicks and you just aren't going to get as much engagement talking about race swapped Domino as you are claiming that Batman has supposedly gone woke.

In fairness Domino, Al, Black Canary, and Thunderball are all minor characters. The little mermaid in "the Little Mermaid" is the main character. Not to say it excuses the rejection of it, but it probably explains the relative level of internet chatter.

It seems to me that if Gods are presented as if they were real, they should be diverse and represent all of humanity, rather than the area where their followers are.

If the story is presented differently (IE- it is the way locals would understand events, some kind of aliens pretend to be Gods to trick local humans which Earth X kinda did with the Asgardians, different regions are understood to have their own Gods) it's a different situation and it makes sense for the Gods to resemble the locals.

There are going to be a lot of views here.

One argument is that minority groups should be able to have their own versions of these iconic stories just like white people do.

Good point.

There is some pushback against minority actors in makeup playing aliens, since in some ways, it's not representation.

Again, you're looking at this situation from a logical, present day perspective. If they're being conceived of in the here and now (like say, as non-deity beings in a Disney live action cartoon) of course it would make sense that there would be diverse casting that might run the gamut of races/sexes/orientations.

Or, if it were learned that the Asgardian gods were really real and really did represent their spheres of influence for all of humanity then it would make sense that they were diverse.

I'm not talking about either of those things, I'm talking about the original conception by primitive Norse people of magical beings that control their very narrow view of the world. In those local myths they almost certainly wouldn't be Chinese or Native American or black (unless they were elves).

I feel like you understand what I'm saying, but seem to be talking past it for some point. That's fine, I've said my piece and feel like it's not worth continuing.

[Agent Z]

This often repeated talking point that redheads are being erased on screen is actually very funny, because:

1) The proportion on redhaired characters in comics and animated movies/series is nowhere close to reality.
2) With some exceptions, most of these characters have red hair color that does not appear anywhere in nature, so we can either assume that these characters have hair of different color that they dye red, or just shrug and take it as the artist's creative licence, same as with characters with platinum/blue/green/purple, etc. hair color.
3) Similar to the above, redhaired characters (especially if they try for comic accuracy with bright red) are rarely played by naturally red or ginger haired actors. Case in point, actors like Nicole Kidman or Benedict Cumberbatch who are ginger rarely play characters with their own hair color, while many famously redhaired characters have been played by actors who dyed their hair for the role, like Kirsten Dunst as Mary Jane.
4) Many of these characters that are originally redhaired and white still have red hair in adaptations when they are played by nonwhite actors, for example Starfire in Titans or the new Little Mermaid.
5) This complain rarely comes up when characters are played by white actors but with different hair color (Val Kilmer as Bruce Wayne, Ben Affleck as Daredevil,...)

I've seen more complaints about MCU Daredevil wearing yellow than I have over him not having red hair. Kind of says it all.

[Ghost Rider TheHellfireDemon]

It can with unnecessary changes to a character that is unmistakably white instead of being faithful to the character.
While Baron Mordo is played by a talented Black Actor in the Doctor Strange movie series that doesn't change it's an unnecessary change for a character that is white in the comic books, and extremely nonsensical becuase they decided to be physically faithful since a white character Doctor Strange because a white actor Benedict Cumberbatch plays Doctor Strange.


The awful movie (2015) Fantastic Four movie used the nonsensical change by having a black actor play Human Torch which is a flaw because the Human Torch is a white character. This makes the past 3 Fantastic Four movies look terrific for the quality because at least those flawed Fantastic Four movies were faithful by having a white actor play the Human Torch instead of making an unnecessary change because of refusing to be faithful to the source material.

[Dalak]

It can with unnecessary changes to a character that is unmistakably white instead of being faithful to the character.
While Baron Mordo is played by a talented Black Actor in the Doctor Strange movie series that doesn't change it's an unnecessary change for a character that is white in the comic books, and extremely nonsensical becuase they decided to be physically faithful since a white character Doctor Strange because a white actor Benedict Cumberbatch plays Doctor Strange.


The awful movie (2015) Fantastic Four movie used the nonsensical change by having a black actor play Human Torch which is a flaw because the Human Torch is a white character. This makes the past 3 Fantastic Four movies look terrific for the quality because at least those flawed Fantastic Four movies were faithful by having a white actor play the Human Torch instead of making an unnecessary change because of refusing to be faithful to the source material.

Did you have an issue with the Ancient One switched to a white woman as well? Mordo as the eventual villain to Strange being cast as African American made me feel that they were portraying White = Good & Black = Villain again honestly, especially considering his abrupt Magic-Stealing face turn in the stinger. I've not seen the newer Strange movie yet, so let that inform any replies.

[ed2962]

It can with unnecessary changes to a character that is unmistakably white instead of being faithful to the character.
While Baron Mordo is played by a talented Black Actor in the Doctor Strange movie series that doesn't change it's an unnecessary change for a character that is white in the comic books, and extremely nonsensical becuase they decided to be physically faithful since a white character Doctor Strange because a white actor Benedict Cumberbatch plays Doctor Strange.


The awful movie (2015) Fantastic Four movie used the nonsensical change by having a black actor play Human Torch which is a flaw because the Human Torch is a white character. This makes the past 3 Fantastic Four movies look terrific for the quality because at least those flawed Fantastic Four movies were faithful by having a white actor play the Human Torch instead of making an unnecessary change because of refusing to be faithful to the source material.

The 2015 FF movie made the other ones look good in comparison because it was boring AF.