Why can't everyone do magic?

[Spidey616]

There was an issue of Mark Waid's FF run that involved Reed and his inability to understand magic

[Sea Hound]

Thanks to everyone above. I had a quick look online before I posted, but it muddied rather than clarified. I have a better handle on my question now.

If Reed can't understand magic, I don't feel too bad.

[AcesX1X]

[Expletive Deleted]

A few years ago, comics blogger MightyGodKing did a really nice series of story ideas for Dr. Strange, and he came up with what I think is a fairly decent set of "rules" for magic in the MU. The whole series is a worth a read, really.

It's sort of like saying "why isn't everyone an Olympic level athlete?" Sure, there's potential for a large group of people to be one but you're probably going to have to go through years of training and there's no guarantee of success. And training for the Olympics could lead to a torn muscle or broken bones. Training with the "mystic arts" could lead to you being eaten by extra-dimensional beings, or having your mind or soul devoured, or becoming evil, or a million other horrible things.

Exactly.

[Loki]

Marvel magic, and comic book magic in general, has very poor rules. I remember way back in Bendis's New Avengers that there was some hype about structuring it a bit, but that never happened. I wish someone would come up with some general rules, though, just because I think it would be all around more interesting.

The writer David Sexton did a lot of work on quantifying the rules of magic for the Mystic Arcana series he wrote back around 2007. One of the things he did was identified where the energy used for magic comes from - there are four sources. And these sources are why not just everyone can cast spells. The types are:

Egocentric - the user is tapping into his own spirit, his own personal magical energy. How much each individual has is different, so while most of us might be able to do minor spells if we knew how to tap this energy, only a few have the personal energies to do major stuff - and some people have so little spiritual energy that they couldn't do this kind of magic no matter how well trained.

Ecocentric - tapping into energies from the environment around you. Again, training is still needed, and again, how much energy a place holds varies. Some places are hotspots of this kind of energy (Stonehenge, for example), while others have virtually none. That's why denizens of the Dark Dimension tend to have more magic than people from Earth - the place is loaded with this kind of energy, so the locals are adept at tapping into it, and more likely to know how to access the other types too as a result.

Exocentric - calls on the energies from other locations and entities - this is what Dr. Strange does when he uses incantations such as the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak. But calling on these entities also makes you dependent on them providing the power - it generally comes with strings attached. And training is more important here - you need less basic knowledge to call on the entities to provide the magic and can get showier results if you manage it, but making mistakes in a spell dealing with these entities can carry a much higher price than making a mistake in egocentric magic.

And finally, Necromantic, energy gained by the termination of "lesser" lifeforms. Tapping into death energy.

Some mutants have powers that let them tap into these energies more easily than regular humans, just like some mutants can tap into thermal, electric, etc energies.

[Kieran_Frost]

I think the logic within Marvel is that anyone could do magic. However, doing so normally requires a very specific mindset and a very specific type of training. Alternatively, one could be greater inclined toward magic or imbued with mystical power due to an enchantment within their bloodline.

I think this expresses it best. Storm, for example, has MASSIVE potential in magic, but she doesn't have any training, so can't cast spells. It's similar to anyone "could" become the best swordsman or marksman, it's all about training, mentality and yes natural ability to "get it" (whether it's born magical like Billy or having something that means you "get" magic like Pete Wisdom).

[Starfish]

New Mutants made another strong argument for the "anyone can use magic if properly instructed" model.

[Fokken]

Why can't everyone sing opera?
Why can't everyone learn complex music video choreography?
Why can't everyone be a guidance counselor?
Why can't everyone bake upside down cake?

Some people can. Some people can't.

[jackolover]

It's just too dangerous. Everybody who tried is sitting in a dark dimension shackled to a demon, and those that got a handle on the magic are all that's left. Don't meddle with powers you don't understand, is the message here.

[Zero Hunter]

Teleporting isn't her mutant power control of the stepping discs of limbo is her mutant power. But she also has teleport spells she can cast without using the stepping discs, but now that she absorbed limbo within herself I don't know how that works anymore.

I thought the only reason here teleporting is tied to Limbo is because that was were she had been when her powers first started to manifest.

[Hypestyle]

A book that I'd say is highly valuable is "Realms of Magic" by Kim Eastland, produced for TSR for their Marvel RPG system of the 1980s. It has a lot of detailed rules about the different "categories" of magic, types of spells that users can cast, rules for novices vs. veterans, use of magical items/clothing/gadgets, and more. You can probably find it online somewhere.

[AriesWarlock]

I asked a similar question before the forum got rebooted. Someone called @StrangeFan gave me the best answer then:

This is the biggest problem. There is no consensus on how magic works. Doctor Strange uses spells, from what I see of Scarlet Witch, she does not. I personally think there has to be an inherent talent within an individual. Just like anyone could theoretically play the violin, but only some play it very well, and fewer still are virtuosos. Otherwise anyone would do it, and not just superheroes, it would be common in the daily life. People will take the easiest way to do things, it's just the way we are.

I also see the 616 universe as being Science based, and while magic will work it has to work in the parameters limited by the universal laws. Like physical distance, depending on his power level (and writer) Strange can teleport all over the Earth, but it seems easier for him to open a portal to another dimension. I think this could be an explanation of why he seems so depowered over the years. He spent a lot of his earlier years in other dimensions, while now it is mostly Earth bound. It would seem reasonable that when spending time in a magic centered dimension that things would work more easily there. I remember way back when, when Shuma Gorath was going to destroy the Earth, Doctor Strange amassed a great deal of dark power. He destroyed Shuma (for a while) but then had to kill himself because what destroys Shuma basically seems to take it's place. Strange transcended into a Godlike entity that became so powerful he had to be brought through multiple dimensions, so the magic could dissapate. Coming directly to Earth would have shattered much of the galaxy. It would be interesting if they finally use this as a reason why magic users are so contained on Earth, that too much magic would be prohibitory. Then when faced with a mystical big bad they can bring the boom in their own dimension because the magic user wouldn't be worried about harming Earth.

It does seem that calling upon entities kind of gives them power, I guess it is almost like worship. If I have enough people calling on me, it makes me stronger, so the entities do allow for mortals to access their power, because in the end it gives them more power.

Doctor Strange is supposed to have inherent powers stemming from his own talent, he doesn't call upon entities to contact someone's mind, or some plain bolts of bedevilment, but he calls upon Cyttorak to hold someone with the Bands. So some of his power comes from his own life force, but the big things he brings in the Entities/Principalities.

The foundations of magic is supposedly something they are working on, primarily to get magic into the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I would love for them to get this "fixed" because I think then a lot more writers would be comfortable using our magic users, and readers would find them more accessible.

.......

I'll add what @Loki said to my small knowledge of magic

And I remember when Reed Richards was trying to do magic and couldn't get it. He is so dumb lol.

[JudicatorPrime]

Anyone in the MU can learn to use magic. The life force itself is perceived to be mystical in nature; a divine spark. That's all you need. How adept one becomes at magic hinges on other factors, like training, intellect, physical and spiritual attunement, genetics, nature, the affinity of other mystical beings, etc.

That, of course, doesn't begin to address magical artifacts. There are quite a few magical items in the MU, from swords to capes to helmets to amulets to rings to swatches of carpet that can be used by anyone. As Doctor Strange has observed on numerous occasions, a tome like the Darkhold has many very simple passages that if read will produce a magical effect. The person reading or uttering the words need not be magically inclined at all or even be cognizant of the fact that they are voicing a spell. The Darkhold draws on the inherent mystical energy of the soul to achieve its end. (I think this is why we've never seen Ultron or Jocasta download the entire Darkhold and become the next great practitioner of Dark Magic. They lack souls.) Other magical artifacts require even less cognizance. Just touch the gem of Cyttorak and you become like unto a Juggernaut. Place the Serpent Crown too closely to your head and your brain will be Set's morsel in no time at all.

[JudicatorPrime]

I asked a similar question before the forum got rebooted. Someone called @StrangeFan gave me the best answer then:

This is the biggest problem. There is no consensus on how magic works. Doctor Strange uses spells, from what I see of Scarlet Witch, she does not. I personally think there has to be an inherent talent within an individual. Just like anyone could theoretically play the violin, but only some play it very well, and fewer still are virtuosos. Otherwise anyone would do it, and not just superheroes, it would be common in the daily life. People will take the easiest way to do things, it's just the way we are.

I also see the 616 universe as being Science based, and while magic will work it has to work in the parameters limited by the universal laws. Like physical distance, depending on his power level (and writer) Strange can teleport all over the Earth, but it seems easier for him to open a portal to another dimension. I think this could be an explanation of why he seems so depowered over the years. He spent a lot of his earlier years in other dimensions, while now it is mostly Earth bound. It would seem reasonable that when spending time in a magic centered dimension that things would work more easily there. I remember way back when, when Shuma Gorath was going to destroy the Earth, Doctor Strange amassed a great deal of dark power. He destroyed Shuma (for a while) but then had to kill himself because what destroys Shuma basically seems to take it's place. Strange transcended into a Godlike entity that became so powerful he had to be brought through multiple dimensions, so the magic could dissapate. Coming directly to Earth would have shattered much of the galaxy. It would be interesting if they finally use this as a reason why magic users are so contained on Earth, that too much magic would be prohibitory. Then when faced with a mystical big bad they can bring the boom in their own dimension because the magic user wouldn't be worried about harming Earth.

It does seem that calling upon entities kind of gives them power, I guess it is almost like worship. If I have enough people calling on me, it makes me stronger, so the entities do allow for mortals to access their power, because in the end it gives them more power.

Doctor Strange is supposed to have inherent powers stemming from his own talent, he doesn't call upon entities to contact someone's mind, or some plain bolts of bedevilment, but he calls upon Cyttorak to hold someone with the Bands. So some of his power comes from his own life force, but the big things he brings in the Entities/Principalities.

The foundations of magic is supposedly something they are working on, primarily to get magic into the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I would love for them to get this "fixed" because I think then a lot more writers would be comfortable using our magic users, and readers would find them more accessible.

.......

I'll add what @Loki said to my small knowledge of magic

And I remember when Reed Richards was trying to do magic and couldn't get it. He is so dumb lol.

Science is the way of the universe. But magic is the will of the universe. By the classic definition magic is meant to absolutely defy the "normal laws" of the universe. For example, there is no scientific reason why Thor's hammer can't be picked up by the Hulk or Spider Man or any other person that can lift at least 1 ton. It is magic, i.e., the will of Odin imposed on the normal order of the universe, that makes Mjolnir's spell possible.

I realize that someone like Tony Stark would say that magic is simply science that we can't yet explain. So be it. But I tend to see magic as the explanation for things that are beyond human comprehension. It is hubris that leads us to believe that everything in the universe can be understood by the human mind.

[Heasensy32]

I though magic was understood by human minds like Doom and Pym.