Exodus vs Thor

[Primetime Harder]

What it says on the tin, with the following specifics:

-Bloodlust off
-Both characters circa ~2010
-No Odinforce / Ragnarok / whatever crazy powerup stuff on Thor's end
-Thor has Mjolnir

I was writing some fanfic, these two popped up in a scene, and I couldn't help but wonder who'd end up top dog if they actually came to blows. I could probably compare respect threads, but honestly I'd rather bring it up here.

[Muadib]

What it says on the tin, with the following specifics:

-Bloodlust off
-Both characters circa ~2010
-No Odinforce / Ragnarok / whatever crazy powerup stuff on Thor's end
-Thor has Mjolnir

I was writing some fanfic, these two popped up in a scene, and I couldn't help but wonder who'd end up top dog if they actually came to blows. I could probably compare respect threads, but honestly I'd rather bring it up here.

Fantastic matchup, Kudos.

Yeah Thor has the Thor/Odin/Cosmic power up it would be a short fight.

Normal Thor tho, vs Exodus, thats tricky. Exodus has taken on entire teams of X-Men and Avengers simultaneously while covering Genosha in an impenetrable TK field. He's generally an equal to Magneto at his most powerful, and Apocalypse specifically put him to cryo stasis because he feared he was too powerful for Apocalypse to control after En Sabah Nur gave him a power up.

Generally i'd think it would go to Exodus due to TK at Jean Grey Plus plus TP at Xavier plus levels and class 100 stats.

Thor might take it with Warrior Madness, and could use the Hammer to pull of Shenanigans, but i think that Exodus just edges it out imo.

[Alan2099]

When it comes to telepathy, it seems that it's rather ify to use on Thor. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

I remember Sersi once fought Exodus and she was about equal to him. I'd say if she can hold him off, Thor should be able to handle him.

[Sharpandpointies]

When it comes to telepathy versus Thor, if he's bouncing that stuff one still needs to show 'how high?' Whose telepathy has he shrugged off? Is it as powerful as Xavier's, as an example? If not, giving him telepathic resistance sounds decent, but at the same time I do recall Moondragon (Xavier+) mentally playing around with Thor while controlling an entire planetary population.

[Primetime Harder]

When it comes to telepathy versus Thor, if he's bouncing that stuff one still needs to show 'how high?' Whose telepathy has he shrugged off? Is it as powerful as Xavier's, as an example? If not, giving him telepathic resistance sounds decent, but at the same time I do recall Moondragon (Xavier+) mentally playing around with Thor while controlling an entire planetary population.

When Moondragon took over Thor's mind, she had the Mind Gem. And she had to put effort into it, noting his resistance. Still did it of course, because Xavier+ level telepath plus freaking Mind Gem, but the fact that she had to narrow her eyes and put in some effort says a lot.

Emma Frost also had trouble doing it while jacked up on Phoenix-skag during Avengers vs X-Men.

Exodus did mind-control a post-Phoenix Jean Grey once, briefly, along with several other X-Men, but I count that as SMvFL because of Jean's other resistance feats and the fact that was during Exodus' big "haha I'm a new character, look how powerful I am" appearance. He has shown himself consistently to be Xavier+ level with TP since that, though. I think he probably could eventually break through Thor's defenses if he tried, but the effort would also leave him vulnerable to Mjolnir shenanigans even if he's got a shield up.

[Muadib]

When it comes to telepathy versus Thor, if he's bouncing that stuff one still needs to show 'how high?' Whose telepathy has he shrugged off? Is it as powerful as Xavier's, as an example? If not, giving him telepathic resistance sounds decent, but at the same time I do recall Moondragon (Xavier+) mentally playing around with Thor while controlling an entire planetary population.

Exodus was held off by Sersi on a day he was engaging teams of Avenger's and X-Men, keeping a tk shield over the island of Genosha, was mentally controlling his pawns and driving the mutates and humans into conflict, was preventing Xavier from reading his mind and generally flexing on all and sundry.

He got taken down by a combo of full power Xavier psi strike plus Black Knights Neuralyzer sword, and that knocked him offline for a few seconds allowing the shield to drop and the influence to stop.

Xavier thought that if Exodus hadnt over extended himself like that he could have won it.

So his telepathy is def Xavier Plus, at that point, but below, "I Mind Control An Entire Planet And The God Of Thunder" Moondragon.

[Primetime Harder]

Now that I'm looking at it, every time Thor has fought a high-level telepath, they've tried to take over his mind during a fight and ended up trying another tactic, because it doesn't work quickly enough to be effective while he's still trying to smash you with that hammer.

Exodus has the shields and the class-100 stats, as well as TK blasts that atomize low-level metahumans and other neat tricks, so I'd imagine him relying more on those after encountering the same problem.

[Sharpandpointies]

When Moondragon took over Thor's mind, she had the Mind Gem. And she had to put effort into it, noting his resistance. Still did it of course, because Xavier+ level telepath plus freaking Mind Gem, but the fact that she had to narrow her eyes and put in some effort says a lot.

It's worth noting she was also controlling an entire planet AND the other Avengers at the time, but yes.

Emma Frost also had trouble doing it while jacked up on Phoenix-skag during Avengers vs X-Men.

Exodus did mind-control a post-Phoenix Jean Grey once, briefly, along with several other X-Men, but I count that as SMvFL because of Jean's other resistance feats and the fact that was during Exodus' big "haha I'm a new character, look how powerful I am" appearance. He has shown himself consistently to be Xavier+ level with TP since that, though. I think he probably could eventually break through Thor's defenses if he tried, but the effort would also leave him vulnerable to Mjolnir shenanigans even if he's got a shield up.

Exodus was held off by Sersi on a day he was engaging teams of Avenger's and X-Men, keeping a tk shield over the island of Genosha, was mentally controlling his pawns and driving the mutates and humans into conflict, was preventing Xavier from reading his mind and generally flexing on all and sundry.

He got taken down by a combo of full power Xavier psi strike plus Black Knights Neuralyzer sword, and that knocked him offline for a few seconds allowing the shield to drop and the influence to stop.

Xavier thought that if Exodus hadnt over extended himself like that he could have won it.

So his telepathy is def Xavier Plus, at that point, but below, "I Mind Control An Entire Planet And The God Of Thunder" Moondragon.

Now that I'm looking at it, every time Thor has fought a high-level telepath, they've tried to take over his mind during a fight and ended up trying another tactic, because it doesn't work quickly enough to be effective while he's still trying to smash you with that hammer.

Exodus has the shields and the class-100 stats, as well as TK blasts that atomize low-level metahumans and other neat tricks, so I'd imagine him relying more on those after encountering the same problem.

All this is fair. ^_^

[The Drunkard Kid]

Telepath: "Have you ever heard the phrase 'brains over brawn,' Odinson?"

Thor: "A) I am a world famous surgeon, and, B) on a completely unrelated note, hast *thou* ever heard the phrase 'hammer induced traumatic brain injury'?"

[Captain Morgan]

Does Exodus have any durability or autoshields to speak of? Seems like Thor should blitz.

[Jcogginsa]

IIRC, doesn't Exodus get a power boost from being around other Mutants? Wouldn't that put an asterisk on most of his feats?

[Primetime Harder]

Does Exodus have any durability or autoshields to speak of? Seems like Thor should blitz.

He's taken full-power hits from Rogue, Frenzy, Cannonball, War Machine, and Sersi - all unshielded - and gotten up just fine afterward. Exodus isn't a glass cannon the way Magneto is. He's also got Mach-2 speed and appropriate reactions (dodging energy attacks, stopping bullets with TK, etc.) so they're operating at fairly similar speeds AFAIK. He could probably get a shield up in time while Thor closes distance.

IIRC, doesn't Exodus get a power boost from being around other Mutants? Wouldn't that put an asterisk on most of his feats?

He can give himself a power boost by absorbing the psionic energy of other telepaths, primarily mutants. But here, he's also not trying to fend off three teams of heroes at once while keeping Xavier out of his head and shielding Genosha, generally flexing on all and sundry as previously mentioned. His consistent feats do a pretty good job of speaking for themselves, unlike a lot of big Marvel characters.

Interestingly there IS, in the fanfic in which I'm putting this fight, a fully Phoenix-powered Jean Grey nearby, but he's also not going to try feeding off her because he just witnessed her at Maximum Rage and he doesn't want any of that right now. It might be interesting to have he and Thor still be fighting when Allen the Alien shows up, who is telepathic (though low-level compared to Psylocke, Emma, Jean, etc.) and could theoretically give him a boost by being nearby.

[Pendaran]

When Moondragon took over Thor's mind, she had the Mind Gem. And she had to put effort into it, noting his resistance. Still did it of course, because Xavier+ level telepath plus freaking Mind Gem, but the fact that she had to narrow her eyes and put in some effort says a lot.

Emma Frost also had trouble doing it while jacked up on Phoenix-skag during Avengers vs X-Men.

Exodus did mind-control a post-Phoenix Jean Grey once, briefly, along with several other X-Men, but I count that as SMvFL because of Jean's other resistance feats and the fact that was during Exodus' big "haha I'm a new character, look how powerful I am" appearance. He has shown himself consistently to be Xavier+ level with TP since that, though. I think he probably could eventually break through Thor's defenses if he tried, but the effort would also leave him vulnerable to Mjolnir shenanigans even if he's got a shield up.

Moondragon did not have the mind gem when she controlled Thor.

It's worth noting she was also controlling an entire planet AND the other Avengers at the time, but yes.

Again, no mind gem.

[Shellhead]

Moondragon did not have the mind gem when she controlled Thor.

I agree. I was just looking at scans of Avengers #220, and there is no visual evidence of the Mind Gem. That story took place sometime between Marvel Two-in-One Annual #2 and Thanos Quest #2, so the Mind Gem was likely in the possession of the Grandmaster at that time.

However, I think that her simultaneous mind control of Thor and a planet full of sentients is an outlier for Moondragon and not a valid feat. She never displayed a comparable feat before or after that time, especially during her string of appearances in Defenders.

[Primetime Harder]

I agree. I was just looking at scans of Avengers #220, and there is no visual evidence of the Mind Gem. That story took place sometime between Marvel Two-in-One Annual #2 and Thanos Quest #2, so the Mind Gem was likely in the possession of the Grandmaster at that time.

However, I think that her simultaneous mind control of Thor and a planet full of sentients is an outlier for Moondragon and not a valid feat. She never displayed a comparable feat before or after that time, especially during her string of appearances in Defenders.

THE RESPECT THREAD LIED TO ME! Noooooo!!

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