Ben Reilly: Scarlet Spider Appreciation 2018

[Captain Craig]

This.

The book failed spectacularly because old school fans could not get over the colossal character assassination of Clone Conspiracy, and new fans had no reason to support him.

Creatively maybe, some might say the middle arcs were promising.

In today's publishing cycle though 2.5yrs and 25 issues is a successful run for a title.

As to the final issue, it was indeed a cluster.

[Spiderfang]

That's a pretty ignorant statement from PAD. Personally, I trade-wait because trades are a more reader-friendly format than standard comics, which I have to pull out of storage/protection and then handle carefully to prevent damage. Trades I can just grab straight off of my shelf and read.

But I guess it's easier to blame trade-waiters than just admit that maybe the story and/or artwork is lacking.

I would think that if Scarlet Spider had been actually 'good' then copies would be flying off the shelves and it'd have been a top seller, but as usual regarding the writers at Marvel it's the customers' fault. I am so done with Peter David, put a fork in it because I am d-o-n-e.

[Miles To Go]

Creatively maybe, some might say the middle arcs were promising.

In today's publishing cycle though 2.5yrs and 25 issues is a successful run for a title.

As to the final issue, it was indeed a cluster.

Renew Your Vows lasted almost the same number of issues, but always outsold Scarlet Spider. Hell it even outsold Spider-Gwen and Miles at one point. Scarlet stayed below of all of them consistently.

[Aioros22]

The run was good to great. Good developments, great cameos, nice world building with the cast. Standard PAD-ism, which is never bad. But the last issue was trash and I can only believe that it was editoral mandated because of another main Spider event or sales.

They basically reset the whole thing as if the run hadn`t happened, straight out of CC and fans are just left alienated.

As a post ad-on I will have to say that Kaine and Ben can`t both be going the same way. In the 90s Kaine was the surrogate villain/anti-hero guy but that changed when they made him SS to replace Ben but now that Ben returned the two don`t work being more or less the same.

Marvel needs to sit back and plan the future with these two carefully.

[Aioros22]

Renew Your Vows lasted almost the same number of issues, but always outsold Scarlet Spider. Hell it even outsold Spider-Gwen and Miles at one point. Scarlet stayed below of all of them consistently.

RYV would alost always sell more. The number of fans disgusted with OMD outsells the number of fans who have been asking for a return of Ben Reilly.

[Aioros22]

Any info regarding Ben`s role in the Gaddon? A bunch of Spiders have already died and Kaine`s status is mia for now.

[SuperiorIronman]

Well what is Peter David expecting?

Trade waiting allows a customer to be informed about the product they are interested in if its worth their time and money. It's also a bonus to readers who want a physical copy in that they can share it with friends and not carry a bunch of comics around to get the complete story. Trades also sometimes contain bonus material or edits which are chances to fix a plot if something heinous appears in singles. Trades are not a bad thing and should be encouraged for new readers as how else are your general readers going to find your work 2-3+ years down the line?

This is even more insane of a thing to hate because Mister David's character, Ben Reilly, can usually only be found in trades if you do not have a local comic shop. He had not been an active presence in years and was supported on largely trades. Ironically also where people know the original Spider-man 2099 line these days as those single issues are very hard to find generally speaking.

Now of course he could be referring to people waiting for trades while working on the title, but Marvel does take trades into consideration of something being profitable. Moon Girl, Ms.Marvel, even the Ultimate books to a lesser extent, had largely been supported through trades and digital sales. So your audience was always going to be factoring into the sales somehow. But we are the problem for paying for the book and keeping him employed?
If it's the reviews he finds a turn-off, that's on him and the Spider-office. If the book is bad, then nobody is going to buy it regardless of trade waiting. Even more so is that if the audience doesn't care, why should they pick up the title?

Coming out of Clone Conspiracy and the shot heard around the spiderverse with an evil Ben Reilly, it had the chance to turn things around. It didn't. And to close things out essentially blaming the fans for the book not being good and waiting on positive reception considering the dislike of direction is laughably stupid. Readers are not obligated to buy something nor should they be beholden to single issues.
If the general consensus is that the book wasn't very good and your idea is to meander on the plot for the rest of the run and then get pissy in that people stopped buying the title, that's on you, not the reader.

But still 25 issues is not something terrible. Yost's (and interestingly better received title) went about as long. Superior Spider-man even went about as long. So as a critical failure and a failure to catch on? Yeah. But in terms of keeping Peter David employed, that's about standard for comics and he should know this.

[Scarlet-Spider]

Creatively maybe, some might say the middle arcs were promising.

In today's publishing cycle though 2.5yrs and 25 issues is a successful run for a title.

As to the final issue, it was indeed a cluster.

Well that doesn't mean much. Myself for example i bought every issue of the series despite disliking the writing since the beginning but i just had to keep going and hope that it will get better but it never did. I just like the character too much to not buy a Ben Reilly ongoing so i guess i am partly responsible for letting this mess of series go all the way to issue #25. I am deeply sorry for that and i am glad for all Ben Reilly fans that Marvel has finally put us out of our misery. Ben Reilly is now perfectly set up as canon fodder in Spider-Geddon and no one will complain or want him after back after what Peter David did to him.

[Kurolegacy]

By contrast his ending for 2099 volume 3, while still a tad rushed and with plenty unresolved, was a much better ending then what he
gave Scarlet Spider.

Worst part? It was easily fixable even with the rushed ending. All they had to do was have the same events happen except after Ben came back to life, have him realize that the negativity and darkness was gone with his selfless sacrifice in the face of knowing what would happen having been rewarded by his soul being purified since the angels revived him thus giving him a new lease on life. The last issue was rushed but it was the last few pages of him going full on edge lord that ruined the whole thing. I one was asking for Jason Todd when we got Ben Reilly back.

[Scarlet-Spider]

But still 25 issues is not something terrible. Yost's (and interestingly better received title) went about as long. Superior Spider-man even went about as long. So as a critical failure and a failure to catch on? Yeah. But in terms of keeping Peter David employed, that's about standard for comics and he should know this.

For comparision sake i read the first 6 issues of both series again and Yost's writing is leagues ahead of Peter David's. It's not a slight difference, it's light years. The dialogue, story, the structure it's all so coherent. I can only imagine what Ben Reilly Scarlet-Spider could have been if it was written by someone like Christopher Yost.

[Pav]

This whole series has been a travesty...

How about instead of "travesty," we consider this series an actual tragedy? Because that's what it seems like to me: Ben struggling with his morality, not knowing what to do until it's too late.

Sounds a bit like Hamlet to me.

Plus, y'know, the machinations of the afterlife messing with him. Totes Hamlet.

-Pav, who loved Hamlet because he loved Ben first...

[Celgress]

This whole series has been a travesty...as was how they brought Ben back.

There, now your statement is perfect.

PS Yeah, you nailed it, friend. Poor Ben Reilly deserved far better than what he received.

[Scarlet-Spider]

How about instead of "travesty," we consider this series an actual tragedy? Because that's what it seems like to me: Ben struggling with his morality, not knowing what to do until it's too late.

Sounds a bit like Hamlet to me.

Plus, y'know, the machinations of the afterlife messing with him. Totes Hamlet.

-Pav, who loved Hamlet because he loved Ben first...

The actual tragedy is Peter David struggling with writing coherent plot and interesting dialogue. HE is the one not knowing what to do until it was too late.

[Pav]

The actual tragedy is Peter David struggling with writing coherent plot and interesting dialogue. HE is the one not knowing what to do until it was too late.

I'll give you plot, but if PAD excels continually at anything, I think it's dialogue.

I really want to know what was going on behind the scenes of this book.

-Pav, who assumes the end was rushed...

[Mister Mets]

Elitist because I am astonished that anyone would love such a garbage story? 'kay buddy.

Keep in mind that for everything you like there's someone who thinks it's objectively garbage.