Ben Reilly: Scarlet Spider Appreciation 2018

[VolcanikTiger86]

I have to get this off my chest, to all Ben fans if Ben were to return full time to the 616. what codename should he take
Peter is Spider-Man
Kaine is the Scarlet Spider
who would Ben be any ideas or if you wanted Ben to be the Scarlet Spider again what code name would you give Kaine.

[Pav]

I have to get this off my chest, to all Ben fans if Ben were to return full time to the 616. what codename should he take
Peter is Spider-Man
Kaine is the Scarlet Spider
who would Ben be any ideas or if you wanted Ben to be the Scarlet Spider again what code name would you give Kaine.

As far as I'm concerned, Ben Reilly is the Scarlet Spider.

Kaine's attempt at rehabilitation has been valiant, but if I were in charge, he would still struggle with clone degeneration and his feelings of unworthiness. The way I see it, Kaine was always the kind of guy who would rather people not notice him, and so he wouldn't create a "code name" for himself. Even his original costume was worn for utilitarian purposes rather than to make a splashy fashion statement.

This has all been supported in the current Scarlet Spider series, but Yost has, I think, made Kaine too familiar with heroics. If Ben were back in the mix for good, I'd want Kaine to revert somewhat - but believably, of course - to being less a hero and more an antagonist to Ben. Once again, he'd simply be Kaine.

Although, I will venture that the marketing folks at Marvel would prefer that their spider-characters be easily recognizable as spider-characters. I'd have that to deal with I suppose.

-Pav, who believes Kaine should be all kinds of morally gray shades...

[MarioHerald]

I have to get this off my chest, to all Ben fans if Ben were to return full time to the 616. what codename should he take
Peter is Spider-Man
Kaine is the Scarlet Spider
who would Ben be any ideas or if you wanted Ben to be the Scarlet Spider again what code name would you give Kaine.

I would prefer that Kaine kept his current code name and colors (the suit really suits him) and have Ben invent a new one (he is the smart brother, after all :P), but...

If Ben were to choose a new codename: Azure Spider? Ultramarine Spider? No wait!

CERULEAN SPIDER-MAN!

If Kaine were to choose a new code name: perhaps something related to Aztec mythology or colors? He is after all Aracely's champion; a (demi)god's paladin.

Kaine's attempt at rehabilitation has been valiant, but if I were in charge, he would still struggle with clone degeneration and his feelings of unworthiness. The way I see it, Kaine was always the kind of guy who would rather people not notice him, and so he wouldn't create a "code name" for himself. Even his original costume was worn for utilitarian purposes rather than to make a splashy fashion statement.

This has all been supported in the current Scarlet Spider series, but Yost has, I think, made Kaine too familiar with heroics. If Ben were back in the mix for good, I'd want Kaine to revert somewhat - but believably, of course - to being less a hero and more an antagonist to Ben. Once again, he'd simply be Kaine.

-Pav, who believes Kaine should be all kinds of morally gray shades...

I agree with the first, but I personally disagree with the latter: Kaine should not be no longer merely a supporting character to Ben or Peter, but the protagonist of his own stories; in my opinion, he has earned that.

That said, I would not rule out having Kaine sometimes showing in Peter's or Ben's stories (or viceversa) and being a supporting characters in there. But not the exclusion or detriment of his own development/stories/arcs; rather to his (and Peter's and Ben's) benefit.

And yeah, I dread the day where the story goes that he finally gets permanently comfortable with the role of hero and goes all "GO TEAM SPIDEY" and becomes... Clark Kent: a shining beacon of hope without blemish or reproach! In my opinion, part of his charm is that he has at least some level of discomfort (the more the merrier) with many of the aspects of the world of superheroics and/or that he screws up or half-asses BIG TIME many superhero "activities" and trends.

However, it could be really interesting to seem him deal with more morally complex situations (I didn't like the fight, but the emotions and ambient done on the Scarlet Spider issue that dealt with human trafficking and the assasination of a girl was superb - Kaine's emotional and cognitive response was great to witness).

A possible path to it could be, ironically, Aracely/Hummingbird. Yes, she is his foil (as he is hers) - a great and energetic girl that admires greatly the superhero world and is generally full of joy and a bringer of it. But she is also connected to one of the more disturbing gods of a very, very strange pantheon (by our standards) of a civilization that venerated and practiced a lot of things that are downright fucking terrifying and bewildering to modern sensibilities. A story that visited some of it could go really dark, really bloody and enormously complex faster than saying "baby sacrifice" or "saving the universe at the cost of my soul" or "personal identity is relative and more fluid than magical water on a river that devours and generates itself".

And aside of that Aztec connection, her story has already visited (but not concluded) the very human and present-day themes of human trafficking, drug war and missing parents that one knows nothing about. Who knows how Rise of Mictlan could play out?

In any case, the general conclusion I make is "an angry, slightly villainous Kaine is fun, but an X-treme 90's totally villainous Kaine played straight is boring and tiresome". Or so I think.

[Beacon]

I love Kaine as the Scarlet Spider but Ben is the true SS; Kaine is just keeping his seat warm.

Besides, why does Kaine need a codename? "Kaine" has been fine for most of his history.

[Pav]

I agree with the first, but I personally disagree with the latter: Kaine should not be no longer merely a supporting character to Ben or Peter, but the protagonist of his own stories; in my opinion, he has earned that.

Oh, I'm totally with you that Kaine is kickass enough to warrant being the protagonist in his own stories; I just would like to see him continuing to plague Ben (and Peter) rather than being a kind of team-up partner. Or, to put it another way, I loved when Kaine functioned as Ben's Venom. The current version as written by Yost can't really pull that off (nor would he want to).

A possible path to it could be, ironically, Aracely/Hummingbird. Yes, she is his foil (as he is hers) - a great and energetic girl that admires greatly the superhero world and is generally full of joy and a bringer of it. But she is also connected to one of the more disturbing gods of a very, very strange pantheon (by our standards) of a civilization that venerated and practiced a lot of things that are downright fucking terrifying and bewildering to modern sensibilities. A story that visited some of it could go really dark, really bloody and enormously complex faster than saying "baby sacrifice" or "saving the universe at the cost of my soul" or "personal identity is relative and more fluid than magical water on a river that devours and generates itself". And aside of that Aztec connection, her story has already visited (but not concluded) the very human and present-day themes of human trafficking, drug war and missing parents that one knows nothing about. Who knows how Rise of Mictlan could play out?

You had me at "downright".

But seriously, that sounds awesome. But to be as frank as possible, while I enjoyed Yost's SS series for what it was, I would've preferred something much darker in tone. It's not that the subject matter itself isn't dark or dangerous or horrific - for whatever reason, I just don't always feel the gravity of the subject matter. Maybe it has something to do with - again, in my opinion - Yost's ability to write in a way that says, "This is a really good comic book; it's full of great comic bookiness." - very similar to much of Dan Slott's work with Marvel, I think. So while I love your description of what might be done with Aracely due to her bewildering magical heritage, I can't help but wish for a writer like J.M. DeMatteis or even Joe Kelly, whose "Grim Hunt" story I enjoyed quite a bit.

In any case, the general conclusion I make is "an angry, slightly villainous Kaine is fun, but an X-treme 90's totally villainous Kaine played straight is boring and tiresome". Or so I think.

Ah, we agree after all. Yeah, that's exactly what I'd like too. I guess, perhaps, I'd like him slightly MORE villainous than his current portrayal!

But I never saw him as "90s totally villainous" because, to me, he is a clear Frankenstein character added to the mythos of Spider-Man; he's well-rounded and his plight has long been frightening.

To be fair, his first appearances had much less depth; originally he was a stone cold mercenary with a grudge on Ben for some reason, but as soon as the Jackal got reintroduced, he became a little pathetic.

(I understood, though. Poor guy.)

-Pav, who misses the FrankenSpider...

PS: This a Ben Reilly thread so...

Ben is still my #1 Ultra-Favorite Comic Book Character and he is totally cooler than Peter Parker!

[KonFan78]

I can see Ben letting Kaine keep the Scarlet Spider name with a motivational "you've earned it" speech. I'd like to see Ben do something original, maybe wear his old Scarlet Spider mask and gloves with jeans, boots or sneakers, and a sip up hoodie. More of a street feel, and ditch the blonde hair and let him grow out his hair a bit and grow some facial hair to distinguish him from Peter.

[VolcanikTiger86]

Maybe I should create a thread with a poll and get a feel for what people want. Just thinking of ideas i posted one in the spider verse thread about a spider family book and how it could relate to the avengers but everyone ignored it there.

[KonFan78]

More than anything, I'd like some good story telling. Code names, costumes, etc are all secondary to good art and story telling. Peter David or Tom DeFalco as writer and Mark Bagel or Marcus To on art.

[KonFan78]

One way I would like to see Ben distinguished from Peter is that while Peter has lived his whole life in NYC and really New York is a supporting character in his story. I'd like to see Ben be the traveling hero, kind of like Kane in Kung Fu.

[Enigmatic Undead]

Here's one of Ben Reilly that I drew with Prismacolor marker, colored pencil, pen and ink



based on a painting by Julie Bell.

[KonFan78]

Here's one of Ben Reilly that I drew with Prismacolor marker, colored pencil, pen and ink



based on a painting by Julie Bell.

Nice, I always loved Ben's web shooters

[byrd156]

Here's one of Ben Reilly that I drew with Prismacolor marker, colored pencil, pen and ink



based on a painting by Julie Bell.

That is one of my absolute favorite superhero costumes of all time.

[byrd156]

I always wished that Ben would have taken over as Spider man, he was always better at being a hero than Peter ever was.

[DV1Band]

As far as I'm concerned, Ben Reilly is the Scarlet Spider.

Kaine's attempt at rehabilitation has been valiant, but if I were in charge, he would still struggle with clone degeneration and his feelings of unworthiness. The way I see it, Kaine was always the kind of guy who would rather people not notice him, and so he wouldn't create a "code name" for himself. Even his original costume was worn for utilitarian purposes rather than to make a splashy fashion statement.

This has all been supported in the current Scarlet Spider series, but Yost has, I think, made Kaine too familiar with heroics. If Ben were back in the mix for good, I'd want Kaine to revert somewhat - but believably, of course - to being less a hero and more an antagonist to Ben. Once again, he'd simply be Kaine.

Although, I will venture that the marketing folks at Marvel would prefer that their spider-characters be easily recognizable as spider-characters. I'd have that to deal with I suppose.

-Pav, who believes Kaine should be all kinds of morally gray shades...

The thing is, if he was just struggling with degeneration and unworthiness, the character would just stay the same. Characters have to grow and change. If it just stayed the same, what would be the point of even putting him on a page anymore? It's that same thing with Spider-Man. People seem really afraid of change. The whole point is for Kaine to realize that he can have a better life. He's not Ben, and he's admitted that. The thing is, he's trying to be a better man, and live up to what Ben was. If he was simply Kaine, he'd be like simplly facade, or simply some other background character that nobody cares about. I would never want to see him fade away into obscurity. Ben's not around anymore, and he's not coming back permanently any time soon. We had Kaine's constant struggle for over a decade. You're not sick of that yet? The great thing about any character is what they go through, and how they can choose to triumph.

[DV1Band]

I can see Ben letting Kaine keep the Scarlet Spider name with a motivational "you've earned it" speech. I'd like to see Ben do something original, maybe wear his old Scarlet Spider mask and gloves with jeans, boots or sneakers, and a sip up hoodie. More of a street feel, and ditch the blonde hair and let him grow out his hair a bit and grow some facial hair to distinguish him from Peter.

I want to see this conversation in Scarlet Spiders. I've been talking about this possibility for months...