Ben Reilly: Scarlet Spider Appreciation 2018

[Pav]

The thing is, if he was just struggling with degeneration and unworthiness, the character would just stay the same. Characters have to grow and change. If it just stayed the same, what would be the point of even putting him on a page anymore? It's that same thing with Spider-Man. People seem really afraid of change. The whole point is for Kaine to realize that he can have a better life. He's not Ben, and he's admitted that. The thing is, he's trying to be a better man, and live up to what Ben was. If he was simply Kaine, he'd be like simplly facade, or simply some other background character that nobody cares about. I would never want to see him fade away into obscurity. Ben's not around anymore, and he's not coming back permanently any time soon. We had Kaine's constant struggle for over a decade. You're not sick of that yet? The great thing about any character is what they go through, and how they can choose to triumph.

Nope, not sick of it yet - hence why I want it back.

I get what you're saying, but at the same time, I don't think it's so cut and dry as you make it. First, some parts of a character's identity shouldn't change much if at all due to their importance. You don't see anyone ask, "Does Peter STILL believe that with great power comes great responsibility?! Jeez! Get over it already!" The concept is integral to the character; similarly, the idea of clone degeneration is what made Kaine special and different from his "brothers". Now, he's just presented as "Grumpier Ben Reilly".

Furthermore, being "stuck" with his original status won't stop Kaine from growing and changing as a character. Characters, like real people, grow and change in some ways and stay the same in other ways. Not ever becoming a woman hasn't stopped me from aging. Kaine never escaping from clone degeneration doesn't mean he can't learn to be a better human being - and in fact, if you are invested in his growth and redemption, wouldn't you rather see him trying to be better while still struggling with his greatest fear? Easy to try to reform when you're no longer a scarred monster.

So, while I totally agree that stagnation is certainly something to be avoided, there are still certain qualities that become ingrained as vital to a character's identity that shouldn't be ignored and done away with.

-Pav, who believes in happy mediums...

[KonFan78]

I love Kaine as the Scarlet Spider but Ben is the true SS; Kaine is just keeping his seat warm.

Besides, why does Kaine need a codename? "Kaine" has been fine for most of his history.

Because in the past Kaine had no family, friends, or life that he was worried about someone destroying. Now he was building a support network in Houston with Annabell, Wally, Donald, and Aracely. Look what happened when someone who knew who he was came. Kaine's new "family" was ripped apart.

[Beacon]

Because in the past Kaine had no family, friends, or life that he was worried about someone destroying. Now he was building a support network in Houston with Annabell, Wally, Donald, and Aracely. Look what happened when someone who knew who he was came. Kaine's new "family" was ripped apart.

Kaine cut ties with all of them but the girl with the terrifying powers. Granted Hummingbird knows that being constantly reminded of Ben makes Kaine a better person.

[KonFan78]

Kaine cut ties with all of them but the girl with the terrifying powers. Granted Hummingbird knows that being constantly reminded of Ben makes Kaine a better person.

Well Donald is in a comma and may never recover, Wally and AnnaBell turned their backs on Kaine. And as for Aracely, he's pretty much her big brother now. Haven't kept up with Kaine since Scarlet Spider got cancelled (freakin crap if you ask me, Yost was rockin that book) but he's probably building new connections with the New Warriors.

[Huntsman Spider]

Well Donald is in a comma and may never recover, Wally and AnnaBell turned their backs on Kaine. And as for Aracely, he's pretty much her big brother now. Haven't kept up with Kaine since Scarlet Spider got cancelled (freakin crap if you ask me, Yost was rockin that book) but he's probably building new connections with the New Warriors.

He doesn't feel like it, but he does try to stick around for Aracely's sake. Also, the "Kaine" back-up in Amazing Spider-Man #1, written by Chris Yost himself, actually had Peter visit Houston to check up on Kaine and learn about what happened recently. By that point, Donald was out of his coma, though having to support himself with a cane, and actually told Peter about how he saw Kaine, namely as a hero, as a man who did bad things once and tried to atone for them, and he wasn't going to stand for letting Kaine think of himself as a monster when he was the farthest thing from that in Donald's eyes. So yeah, not all of his Houston supporting cast have turned their backs on him.

[Beacon]

He doesn't feel like it, but he does try to stick around for Aracely's sake.

He does seem to be bonding a little with Speedball. They aren't exactly friends but Kaine seems to respect him a little (and Kaine doesn't respect ANYONE) for not being quite as dim as he pretends to be. Plus the two have a surprising amount in common since neither thinks they're showing the world their "real" face...though you could always argue that you are who you pretend to be.

[KonFan78]

He doesn't feel like it, but he does try to stick around for Aracely's sake. Also, the "Kaine" back-up in Amazing Spider-Man #1, written by Chris Yost himself, actually had Peter visit Houston to check up on Kaine and learn about what happened recently. By that point, Donald was out of his coma, though having to support himself with a cane, and actually told Peter about how he saw Kaine, namely as a hero, as a man who did bad things once and tried to atone for them, and he wasn't going to stand for letting Kaine think of himself as a monster when he was the farthest thing from that in Donald's eyes. So yeah, not all of his Houston supporting cast have turned their backs on him.

Thanks for the heads up, glad to hear Donald is out of his coma and still believes in Kaine, and very glad that Peter is checking up on him, especially after the crap Spock said to him. I can't wait for Scarlet Spiders and the Ben/Kaine reunion.

[Chobbly]

Thanks for the heads up, glad to hear Donald is out of his coma and still believes in Kaine, and very glad that Peter is checking up on him, especially after the crap Spock said to him. I can't wait for Scarlet Spiders and the Ben/Kaine reunion.

You might want to check out New Warriors #9, out next week, as Kaine returns to Houston. Should be a good issue.

[Aioros22]

I can`t wait to see Ben again. To me, ever since his introduction, he read to me as someone who kept the best attributes of Peter Parker but with a total different upbringing and life experiences. Efectually making him not only Peter but someone his own. That was a hard thing to pull of by the creative, but I feel they managed at the time, whatever you might think of the Clone Saga. Re-reading some issues, it`s refreshing to take the character`s struggle with identity and what is real to readers, since I`m sure most of us have the same. This give Ben a phylosophical-larger-than life perspective than Peter. Peter may have been to space and beyond but in a way he hasn`t seen life like Ben did.

Really hope that the Ben that they use more is the one after the end of the last Clone Saga mini. I want a world where he gets to Spider around and visits his "brother" and niece time to time.

[DV1Band]

Nope, not sick of it yet - hence why I want it back.

I get what you're saying, but at the same time, I don't think it's so cut and dry as you make it. First, some parts of a character's identity shouldn't change much if at all due to their importance. You don't see anyone ask, "Does Peter STILL believe that with great power comes great responsibility?! Jeez! Get over it already!" The concept is integral to the character; similarly, the idea of clone degeneration is what made Kaine special and different from his "brothers". Now, he's just presented as "Grumpier Ben Reilly".

Furthermore, being "stuck" with his original status won't stop Kaine from growing and changing as a character. Characters, like real people, grow and change in some ways and stay the same in other ways. Not ever becoming a woman hasn't stopped me from aging. Kaine never escaping from clone degeneration doesn't mean he can't learn to be a better human being - and in fact, if you are invested in his growth and redemption, wouldn't you rather see him trying to be better while still struggling with his greatest fear? Easy to try to reform when you're no longer a scarred monster.

So, while I totally agree that stagnation is certainly something to be avoided, there are still certain qualities that become ingrained as vital to a character's identity that shouldn't be ignored and done away with.

-Pav, who believes in happy mediums...

I love Kaine, but I couldn't stand the degeneration anymore. We didn't really get Kaine when he was degenerating. He was acting out of pain and instinct. What we're getting is Kaine when he's of his own mind. He's not losing his mind anymore. The spark that makes him special is still there, it's just different. Ben was as smart as Peter, which was what helped him to adapt, even in the worst of circumstances. Kaine now is kind of the everyman. He's a guy who just happens to have powers. Instead of degeneration, what makes him interesting now is the trial and error that he's going through as a person. He's more immature than Peter and Ben, but he's learning from what's around him. It would be hard for him to be a better human being, because all he could focus on was the pain that he was in. If you go back and read the clone saga, most of what he's saying comes from pain, and the anger at dying instead of having a chance. Now, he's got this chance. The next step for him is to have to adapt to having this life handed to him, and learning how to interact with others. Ben was the original Scarlet Spider, but generally saw himself as Spider-Man. Kaine's actually had more time with the name that Ben did, and he's also done more with it. I love Ben, but he didn't really get into heroics much until after he had dropped the Scarlet Spider moniker. Kaine's doing it justice, and giving his own name to it. I know that some say that Kaine doesn't need a code name, but in a way, he does. He's got to protect Aracely. He also seems to become something better every time he puts on the mask. For better or worse, he's a superhero. He deserves to be more than just Kaine.

[KonFan78]

I love Kaine, but I couldn't stand the degeneration anymore. We didn't really get Kaine when he was degenerating. He was acting out of pain and instinct. What we're getting is Kaine when he's of his own mind. He's not losing his mind anymore. The spark that makes him special is still there, it's just different. Ben was as smart as Peter, which was what helped him to adapt, even in the worst of circumstances. Kaine now is kind of the everyman. He's a guy who just happens to have powers. Instead of degeneration, what makes him interesting now is the trial and error that he's going through as a person. He's more immature than Peter and Ben, but he's learning from what's around him. It would be hard for him to be a better human being, because all he could focus on was the pain that he was in. If you go back and read the clone saga, most of what he's saying comes from pain, and the anger at dying instead of having a chance. Now, he's got this chance. The next step for him is to have to adapt to having this life handed to him, and learning how to interact with others. Ben was the original Scarlet Spider, but generally saw himself as Spider-Man. Kaine's actually had more time with the name that Ben did, and he's also done more with it. I love Ben, but he didn't really get into heroics much until after he had dropped the Scarlet Spider moniker. Kaine's doing it justice, and giving his own name to it. I know that some say that Kaine doesn't need a code name, but in a way, he does. He's got to protect Aracely. He also seems to become something better every time he puts on the mask. For better or worse, he's a superhero. He deserves to be more than just Kaine.

Yes Ben will always be the original, but I think Ben would be proud of what Kaine has done with the Scarlet Spider moniker, and that in the new Scarlet Spiders mini we will see Ben endorse Kaine and give him his blessing. As for Ben, I'd like to see him do his own thing if he sticks around. Not Spider-Man or Scarlet Spider, but something else original that is his own. I'd like to see a Ben who travels the world helping out where he's needed. Ben traveling on his chopper, with Felicia Hardy as his sometime road buddy, hey a guy can dream right.

[Aioros22]

I love Kaine, but I couldn't stand the degeneration anymore. We didn't really get Kaine when he was degenerating. He was acting out of pain and instinct. What we're getting is Kaine when he's of his own mind. He's not losing his mind anymore. The spark that makes him special is still there, it's just different. Ben was as smart as Peter, which was what helped him to adapt, even in the worst of circumstances. Kaine now is kind of the everyman. He's a guy who just happens to have powers. Instead of degeneration, what makes him interesting now is the trial and error that he's going through as a person. He's more immature than Peter and Ben, but he's learning from what's around him. It would be hard for him to be a better human being, because all he could focus on was the pain that he was in. If you go back and read the clone saga, most of what he's saying comes from pain, and the anger at dying instead of having a chance. Now, he's got this chance. The next step for him is to have to adapt to having this life handed to him, and learning how to interact with others. Ben was the original Scarlet Spider, but generally saw himself as Spider-Man. Kaine's actually had more time with the name that Ben did, and he's also done more with it. I love Ben, but he didn't really get into heroics much until after he had dropped the Scarlet Spider moniker. Kaine's doing it justice, and giving his own name to it. I know that some say that Kaine doesn't need a code name, but in a way, he does. He's got to protect Aracely. He also seems to become something better every time he puts on the mask. For better or worse, he's a superhero. He deserves to be more than just Kaine.

How long was Ben the "real" Spider-Man?

If Ben does stick around, which I hope so, I think is feesible that he gets the blessing, Ben is a rightious character and is totally him to want Kaine to continue on this path. As far as the name thought, I can also see Kaine maybe changing the code name out of respect for Ben.

[Beacon]

How long was Ben the "real" Spider-Man?.

About halfway into the Clone Saga so maybe four or five months comic time. We know the CS lasted nine months in comic time because of that thing Marvel doesn't want us talking about.

[Pav]

If Ben does stick around, which I hope so, I think is feesible that he gets the blessing, Ben is a rightious character and is totally him to want Kaine to continue on this path. As far as the name thought, I can also see Kaine maybe changing the code name out of respect for Ben.

As long as Kaine fills the role he's currently in, I don't think we'll see Ben back for any extended period of time. Kaine now essentially fills the role that Ben used to fill. Unless the writers decide to put Ben into another role - villain? - then there's little reason to bring him back, and definitely little reason to give him his own comic to star in.

Again, one of the reasons I'd like to see Kaine "unhealed" is because it allows for the return of Ben, because there wouldn't be any overlap in the purpose of each's existence.

-Pav, who is happy people still want to discuss the Spider-Clones all these years later...

[DV1Band]

As long as Kaine fills the role he's currently in, I don't think we'll see Ben back for any extended period of time. Kaine now essentially fills the role that Ben used to fill. Unless the writers decide to put Ben into another role - villain? - then there's little reason to bring him back, and definitely little reason to give him his own comic to star in.

Again, one of the reasons I'd like to see Kaine "unhealed" is because it allows for the return of Ben, because there wouldn't be any overlap in the purpose of each's existence.


-Pav, who is happy people still want to discuss the Spider-Clones all these years later...

The thing is, there's always room for a character to come back if you write it well. Ben can still come back. Kaine's got his own supporting cast. Ben has no part of that. Kaine's can go back to Houston, and Ben could go back to Utah, or anywhere else in the United States. Kaine and Peter are on opposite sides of the U.S., and they're not interfering with each other much. Same can go for Ben. Ben can be a hero, still. There are a bunch of avenues that they could take with him.