Train to defeat Ranma Saotome!

[Primetime Harder]

Genuinely curious as to what led you to suggest Carrot?

He's not noted for being a particularly skilled fighter, quick learner or dedicated trainer. His top feats are well below even early Ranma in terms of scale so...

Erm... why him?

Same reason he would have made a fantastic GL - once that boy really sets his mind to something, there is no stopping him. He acts the hero completely without effort and in accordance with the part; it's only Vimes yanking him back by the collar going, "Alright, that's enough of that," which stops him becoming a full-on Arthurian figure.

...It also occurs to me that Musabetsu Kakuto Ryu operates on much the same rules as Discworld mysticism; highly metaphorical and theoretical, often with drastic consequences, and requiring extremely careful execution to do correctly.

[Nik Hasta]

Solar Flare and Multi-Form somewhere down the line too.

When did Goku use multiform? Blanking on that.

[Jackalope89]

When did Goku use multiform? Blanking on that.

After Future Trunks warned them of the android threat, and trained with Piccolo and Gohan, I believe.

[The MunchKING]

He learnt the kamehameha by seeing it once and then... taught himself to fly like four years later, right? What else does he have in Dragonball?

The Kyoken attack? He stole the Solar Flare from Tien. Then there was the Rock, Paper, Scissors Attack, The fake variants, Tail spin to fly, the multi-image technique, octoarms, etc. I THINK he said he knew the Mufan-Bu, he just didn't try it because Kami beat him to the punch, and Piccolo showed he had a counter-technique for that.

Then there's the bit where he countered all of the people's techniques who used them on him. Like Teins four-arm attack, or Solar Flare... All the Ninja tricks Purple could throw at him, Piccolo's wacky size-changing shenanigans, etc.


And that's assuming he doesn't get the random plot device of "It's always a full moon when Kid Goku needs a boost.

When did Goku use multiform? Blanking on that.

I only remember him using the illusionary speed version as a kid. I think maybe in Z he might have used in to train in the anime.

[Nik Hasta]

The Kyoken attack?

Which is basically a form of animal kung fu that he makes up on the fly and never uses again. Nothing Ranma hasn't seen before and beaten ad nauseum.

He stole the Solar Flare from Tien.

He didn't use the Solar Flare until literal years after seeing it for the first time so we have no idea how long it took him to learn to do it.

Then there was the Rock, Paper, Scissors Attack,

.___.



A three hit combo, what a colossal demonstration of martial skill.

Against Yamcha, no less.

the multi-image technique,

Afterimages is a speed thing and therefore stat based rather than skill.

octoarms, etc.

I don't think he ever did this? That was Tien specific. Looking at the fight, Goku just moved his arms really fast to simulate additional limbs so that's, again, stat-based rather than skill.

I THINK he said he knew the Mufan-Bu, he just didn't try it because Kami beat him to the punch, and Piccolo showed he had a counter-technique for that.

Assuming you mean the Mafuba, in Super, Goku specifically goes to learn the Mafuba from Roshi to fight Zamasu because he doesn't know how to do it himself.

Then there's the bit where he countered all of the people's techniques who used them on him. Like Teins four-arm attack, or Solar Flare... All the Ninja tricks Purple could throw at him, Piccolo's wacky size-changing shenanigans, etc.

To beat those techniques he did the following:

- Four Arms: Tien holding Goku's arms and legs above his head and just letting Goku hit him in the face with his tail rather than taking any defensive action. Goku later put him in a boston crab which did enough damage that Tien had to deactivate the extra arms and then broke out of the hold with such force that it threw Goku through a wall.
- Solar Flare: Putting on a pair of sunglasses.
- Purple's Ninja Tricks: Purple was effectively a comedy character and the fight was basically a game of hide and seek.
- Big Piccolo: Goku literally said "this actually works well for me because growing big has just made you a bigger target," when they were fighting. That and he was strong enough to lift and throw Piccolo even as a giant so, more stat-based than skill.

Ranma has adapted to weird stuff and learnt entirely new styles more often and quicker and then go on to beat masters of those styles. Given enough time, Goku obviously surpasses him in stats and could beat him pretty easily.

But Kid Goku? In one year? I don't think any of the teachers could teach him things to close the gap on stats that end of series Ranma has on him.

Same reason he would have made a fantastic GL - once that boy really sets his mind to something, there is no stopping him. He acts the hero completely without effort and in accordance with the part; it's only Vimes yanking him back by the collar going, "Alright, that's enough of that," which stops him becoming a full-on Arthurian figure.

He's very driven but he's not got the feats of either assimilating new skills or raising his stats to overcome the rather large stat deficit he's at from the outset.

[BitVyper]

ultimately, it took a three year timeskip for Goku to train out his tail weakness, and Ranma is definitely going to go for the tail.

[The MunchKING]

A three hit combo, what a colossal demonstration of martial skill.

Against Yamcha, no less.

I mean he did it to everyone he couldn't one-shot.

Afterimages is a speed thing and therefore stat based rather than skill.

Yeah, but I was thinking of his "I'll go behind you going behind me going behind you going behind an afterimage of me making a rude face at you" think as an example of him adapting a standard technique to a new conclusion.

Assuming you mean the Mafuba, in Super, Goku specifically goes to learn the Mafuba from Roshi to fight Zamasu because he doesn't know how to do it himself.

Ah, OK. Guess I was wrong about that one.

To beat those techniques he did the following:

- Four Arms: Tien holding Goku's arms and legs above his head and just letting Goku hit him in the face with his tail rather than taking any defensive action. Goku later put him in a boston crab which did enough damage that Tien had to deactivate the extra arms and then broke out of the hold with such force that it threw Goku through a wall.

Yeah? Sounds like a solid counter to me.

- Solar Flare: Putting on a pair of sunglasses.

Right after he learned that's what sunglasses were for, IIRC. That's like the time he learned the cold would freeze stuff and then half a book later remembered that and used it to beat the Jiggler.

I was also thinking he beat Tien's splitting into four and using the laser-eyes trick by using the Solar Flare.

He can take the things he learns and apply it to beating his enemies which makes him WAY smarter than some depictions of Ranma.

- Big Piccolo: Goku literally said "this actually works well for me because growing big has just made you a bigger target," when they were fighting. That and he was strong enough to lift and throw Piccolo even as a giant so, more stat-based than skill.

I was thinking of the part when he tricked Piccolo into making himself bigger so that he could jump down Piccolo's throat and rescue Kami after Piccolo swallowed the bottle containing Kami.

ultimately, it took a three year timeskip for Goku to train out his tail weakness, and Ranma is definitely going to go for the tail.

Would he if the tail weakness isn't commonly known? Because it kind of wasn't. Gohan knew it because he raised Goku, and Yamcha saw it and then told a few other people about it, but it was basically only the Z-Fighters and Pilaf's crew that knew about the weakness. And it wasn't like it was a common thing amongst Sayins, because of all the Sayins we saw, Raditz was the only one who shared the weakness, so it's not like it was common knowledge to the rest of the DBZ universe.

[Sharpandpointies]

Would he if the tail weakness isn't commonly known? Because it kind of wasn't. Gohan knew it because he raised Goku, and Yamcha saw it and then told a few other people about it, but it was basically only the Z-Fighters and Pilaf's crew that knew about the weakness. And it wasn't like it was a common thing amongst Sayins, because of all the Sayins we saw, Raditz was the only one who shared the weakness, so it's not like it was common knowledge to the rest of the DBZ universe.

Ranma will go for the tail because it’s there. He will. It’s kind of his thing. Not ‘magic weakness detection’ or anything like that, but if there is something different about an enemy (physically or mentally) he WILL go for it, if only sometimes to be a prick and anger people into losing focus.

Might be what Bitvyper was referring to, not sure. But let’s face it, if we put together a list of ‘Top Ten Fighters Who Are Also Absolute Pricks’, I find it hard to see that Ranma wouldn’t be ranked. And going after 'whatever stands out' on his opponent is kind of his goto. A tail? 100% he's going to grab it.

[BitVyper]

Pretty much exactly what I meant, yes. Like we can argue whether it's basic knowledge or not, but Ranma's an opportunist and he has no reason to believe he shouldn't just grab Goku by the tail and throw him into a wall.

[Jackalope89]

Pretty much exactly what I meant, yes. Like we can argue whether it's basic knowledge or not, but Ranma's an opportunist and he has no reason to believe he shouldn't just grab Goku by the tail and throw him into a wall.

I mean, the wall would crumble and Goku would be annoyed, but for sure Ranma would do that.

Give me Piccolo as the master. Took Gohan from nothing to Raditz level in a year. In 3 months? Yeah, should at least make the fight interesting.

[BitVyper]

I mean, the wall would crumble and Goku would be annoyed, but for sure Ranma would do that.

I feel like this is just disingenuous, but I will be very straightforward:

It is very in character for Ranma to grab Goku's tail as a first resort. Probably before even bothering with punching.

None of this training is going to take his speed from early Dragon Ball levels to where he can prevent that from happening. He also needed a tail focused training regimen over the course of three years to train out his tail weakness, so that's probably not happening either. It's possible (likely, even) that it didn't take the entire three years, but that's the smallest number we have, and any tail training is going to subtract from his other training, which I've already argued isn't enough time based on his feats anyway.

Goku is instantly disabled by tail grabbings before he trains the weakness out. The second Ranma grabs his tail, the reaction is extremely obvious. It doesn't matter what Ranma does after that. The point is that basic knowledge or no, the tail weakness is exposed and the fight is a foregone conclusion afterward. Either he gets disabled for a ten count or his tail pops off as it has been known to do, and he loses his equilibrium and gets a beatdown.

[Jackalope89]

I feel like this is just disingenuous, but I will be very straightforward:

It is very in character for Ranma to grab Goku's tail as a first resort. Probably before even bothering with punching.

None of this training is going to take his speed from early Dragon Ball levels to where he can prevent that from happening. He also needed a tail focused training regimen over the course of three years to train out his tail weakness, so that's probably not happening either. It's possible (likely, even) that it didn't take the entire three years, but that's the smallest number we have, and any tail training is going to subtract from his other training, which I've already argued isn't enough time based on his feats anyway.

Goku is instantly disabled by tail grabbings before he trains the weakness out. The second Ranma grabs his tail, the reaction is extremely obvious. It doesn't matter what Ranma does after that. The point is that basic knowledge or no, the tail weakness is exposed and the fight is a foregone conclusion afterward. Either he gets disabled for a ten count or his tail pops off as it has been known to do, and he loses his equilibrium and gets a beatdown.

...I really wasn't trying to be. Just thinking, in a fanfiction kind of way, the humor that would be associated with such a thing. Sorry if it came off like it was disingenuous.

[The MunchKING]

Pretty much exactly what I meant, yes. Like we can argue whether it's basic knowledge or not, but Ranma's an opportunist and he has no reason to believe he shouldn't just grab Goku by the tail and throw him into a wall.

I mean if he chucks Goku hard enough to hurt, he's likely to just rip the tail off. for all the cartoon physics Goku did with that thing it wasn't very tough when strong people grabbed it.

[The Drunkard Kid]

I mean, the wall would crumble and Goku would be annoyed, but for sure Ranma would do that.

Give me Piccolo as the master. Took Gohan from nothing to Raditz level in a year. In 3 months? Yeah, should at least make the fight interesting.

I mean, Gohan is a freak of nature who was borderline Raditz level threat as an untrained 4 year old and became a notably greater than Raditz threat in less than a year, with several months of those spent learning to live in the wilderness by himself before he even started learning how to fight.

Also, I'm not really sure that Ranma could reliably hurt Goku with a full year's training from this crew, outside of the tail (which, yes, he absolutely will attach, though bloodlusted he might just cut/rip it off like he did Saffron's wings, which would pretty much remove that weakness, though if this is a Goku who never got it cut off by Yamcha beforehand, it might leave him too off balanced to avoid a pin or possibly a sleep-pressure-point). That said, if the speed differential is high enough, Ranma would definitely try to tickle him unconscious, or something. Maybe just tie him into a knot like he did to Ryouga that one time, but Kid Goku's stubby limbs and stout body might actually help him out on that front.

Less than one year of practically nothing but stat training and getting a basic general education under an extremely out of shape Roshi who was still miles below his prime after training alongside Goku and Kuririn that entire time got him to the point where he was jumping straight through the clouds, throwing people out of the city and tanking hits from cloud height to the throat and Roshi punting him out of the city during the 21st Budokai, then 3 days of training with Korin (the guy who trained Roshi for years when he was much more serious about martial arts) got him to the point where he was overpowering a dude that was precision-throwing stone pillars intercontinental distances at hypersonic speeds (who had demolished him prior to those three days of training).

That said, I'm not sure that these four trainers can really give him the skills needed to match up with end of series Ranma in just a year. Oddly enough, Mr. Popo's mind clearing and physical radar senses training would be ideal to deal with things like the Hiryu Shoten Ha, Shishi Hokodan (and probably also the Mouko Takabisha), and the Umisenken, though we don't know how long into their 3 year training session it took for him to learn that, or if they required the 4 years of training and Ultimate Holy Water boost he got beforehand to even have a possibility of learning them.

I would love to see them interact with one another, though, since Goku is probably one of the few fighters who wouldn't take any offense from Ranma's sneaky bastardry, and would probably react with impressed delight to getting hit with a "dirty" trick in a one on one duel to the death with no greater stakes on the line, outside of maybe the tail thing.

[penguin-in-leather-jacket]

classic answers for the board... Terry Bogard. or Sakura Kasugano.

more current ... Coby from One Piece... or almost anyone in that series really, power progression can be just crazy, most likely leagues beyond Ranma's ability to cope.

curse Ranma's series having ended ... 26 years ago. and counting. and power not having ever really been the primary concern in it; fighting as a whole for that matter. the romance-farce was at least as important.