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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    Disney can keep making what ever they want, they're a business and wouldn't do something unless there was some kind of market for it. No company that wants to be widely successful should cater to anyone it would be a horrible marketing strategy.



    They do it for clicks, likes, views, shares, retweets, what have you. These are people that see validity by people responding to them. I see way more people responding to people making racist statements than people making those statements. Which is awesome but its yelling at a little brick wall except it is making the wall feel important for some reason. A group of youtubers/podcasters cry foul in a game that doesn't even have a rule book are doing so because it gives them attrition. When they see headlines like "Little Mermaid Live-Action Trailer Flooded With Racist YouTube Comments, Downvotes" it's a feeling of accomplishment and does absolutely nothing to discourage such behavior. Not saying that it needs to 100% ignored but the constant spotlight on them is just putting wind in their sails.

    It also goes both ways, studios need to stop using racist arguments as cover from real criticism. I can not like the character Rose from TLJ for legitimate reasons.
    Disney hasn't said anything about racist attacks on the Little Mermaid.

    They've been completely silent. I've seen a lot more YouTubers and political commentators attacking the movie. From where I stand, I've only seen the racist attacks on the movie, right from when Halle Bailey was cast.

    Lucasfilm didn't say a word about the racist attacks on Rose Tico either. If they did, I must have missed it. I only saw a lot of right-wing YouTubers say that "Lucasfilm called them racist" but I never saw anything official from Lucasfilm. But yes, if the cast were racially attacked, then Lucasfilm/Disney MUST say something. If people are triggered by Disney defending their cast, that says more about those people than Disney.

    Having legitimate criticism of the movie is completely different than racially attacking the cast of a movie. There are entirely different discussions that are actually happening.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surf View Post
    1,000%. Lol, and that's 4 cents btw bruh.

    I've been saying- if the drops in the bucket we're now seeing as far as more Black faces in front of the camera is so disturbing, dust off any of the history of Hollywood's first damn near 80 years, across EVERY MAJOR studio, where the few faces of color are either demeaned or played to part by white actors or ignored all together. Have the freak at it, plenty out there and will be forever.

    Mind you, this says NOTHING in regards to the amount of those Black folks behind the scenes, frozen out of the industry by decades of Hollywood unions who refused their entrances into the labor force over that same amount of time. Mirroring so many other industries as it pertains to labor in this country.

    This project would have gotten a spin or two on the streams in my house cause I got littles anyway. NOW, it's a thing and I'M gonna have to sit through it on the strength, for the algorithms and for the hate, on general principle. This will be my first real sit down with anything Little Mermaid so all this promotion helped I guess.
    Exactly.

    I'm sure a lot of us would never have watched the Little Mermaid remake at all, this controversy has only brought attention to it. BIPOC (and the allies and the POC with skin in the game) will have to try to ignore the racist rantings of lunatics online.

    Regarding labor practices, I fully agree. The reaction to the movie supports the claim of how black people have been completely kept out of certain jobs both in the entertainment sector and outside.

  3. #243
    Astonishing Member CSTowle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunch of Coconuts View Post
    Shielding yourself from criticism with "my opinion isn't wrong" is fine and all, but people that complain about remakes existing remind me of the silly people that started boycotting Cracker Barrel for including meatless options in their new menu.

    And that's my opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    Oh my god, I love that comparison.
    It's actually a pretty terrible comparison. Comparing it to movie audiences complaining about other overdone movie tropes like explosions, car chases, unnecessary/forced romantic subplots, damsel-in-distress/Princess stories (a tale as old as time), etc. are far more apt.

    For that comparison to make a lick of sense someone would have to be boycotting remakes or reboots. Nobody's doing that. Some are saying they're generally not fans or that the batting average is low, or pointing out the pitfalls of trying to recapture the magic of an already beloved story, but nobody anywhere I can see is calling for their abolishment or not watching Disney films because of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    I disagree. Your opinion still boils down to "Disney should stop making the stuff I don't like and only make stuff I like." No matter how many times you try to phrase it, it still comes off as selfishly wanting a company to cater to your tastes and your tastes alone.
    No, my opinion is that I'd likely be more entertained if they tried new things rather than rehashing already established stories. But that's me. Some people can eat at McDonalds every night, and never be unhappy (well, until their body starts to fall apart). Others can watch or read more or less the same story with minor variations for decades. This is a comic book discussion board, after all.

    Nothing wrong with that, and it makes financial sense for the Disneys of the world to follow a formula that's safe and established. It's just not for me. That said, if someone says that opinion shouldn't be expressed or that it's selfish (as if I have any pull at Disney, or any other studio) then they're the ones being selfish by trying to shut down discussion that disagrees with their own. And again, distracts from the discussion of the illegitimate criticisms of this particular film.
    Formerly finfangfool

  4. #244

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    Quote Originally Posted by CSTowle View Post
    It's actually a pretty terrible comparison. Comparing it to movie audiences complaining about other overdone movie tropes like explosions, car chases, unnecessary/forced romantic subplots, damsel-in-distress/Princess stories (a tale as old as time), etc. are far more apt.

    For that comparison to make a lick of sense someone would have to be boycotting remakes or reboots. Nobody's doing that. Some are saying they're generally not fans or that the batting average is low, or pointing out the pitfalls of trying to recapture the magic of an already beloved story, but nobody anywhere I can see is calling for their abolishment or not watching Disney films because of it.
    Yeah, well, that's just like...your opinion, man.

    *or*

    Tut-tut; I used the "that's my opinion" defense. It can be neither right nor wrong.

    Pick a response.

    But you can also find various "why does this have to exist" type posts in pretty much any new Disney remake announcement (here and other forums I visit), with an inevitable "why don't they just work on original properties" type post...or few. I'm not going to do the searching for you, though*.

    As far as the "boycott" bit, yeah that might have been a slight exaggeration. But I don't think anyone really boycotted Cracker Barrel either, they just kinda...stamped their feet, mad about it for a bit, then moved on to something else I think? I didn't keep up with the topic very much.

    *P.S., I lied.
    Last edited by Bunch of Coconuts; 09-22-2022 at 08:00 PM.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Disney hasn't said anything about racist attacks on the Little Mermaid.

    They've been completely silent. I've seen a lot more YouTubers and political commentators attacking the movie. From where I stand, I've only seen the racist attacks on the movie, right from when Halle Bailey was cast.

    Lucasfilm didn't say a word about the racist attacks on Rose Tico either. If they did, I must have missed it. I only saw a lot of right-wing YouTubers say that "Lucasfilm called them racist" but I never saw anything official from Lucasfilm. But yes, if the cast were racially attacked, then Lucasfilm/Disney MUST say something. If people are triggered by Disney defending their cast, that says more about those people than Disney.

    Having legitimate criticism of the movie is completely different than racially attacking the cast of a movie. There are entirely different discussions that are actually happening.
    Disney is being smart in that they are going to let the end product speak for itself. It's the smart thing to do because anything said that goes one or the other is just going to fan the flames on either side of the argument.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollowSage View Post
    This is a one way street. Studios can and should address and stand up for their actors/directors/writers when they come under attack from racism.

    If your legitimate criticisms are being overlooked and drowned out by all the noise from the racists then your problem is with the racists. They are the ones creating an environment where it’s hard to have a civil discussion and trying to downplay their impact isn’t helpful. The spotlight is necessary otherwise people can have a tendency to forget and then act like it doesn’t exist at all and that doesn’t make it magically go away.
    No, it doesn't make it go away and nor should it. But it essentially boils down to one side shouting over the top of the other and trying to browbeat racists never works because that only incites them more. Most of them get diverse pleasure in knowing they get under the skin of those who oppose their views.

    Its a cycle. The more you try to fight them the harder they'll fight. Best to ignore them and not give them an inch. And that's the thing with these people - they want attention and hate being ignored.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    No, it doesn't make it go away and nor should it. But it essentially boils down to one side shouting over the top of the other and trying to browbeat racists never works because that only incites them more. Most of them get diverse pleasure in knowing they get under the skin of those who oppose their views.

    Its a cycle. The more you try to fight them the harder they'll fight. Best to ignore them and not give them an inch. And that's the thing with these people - they want attention and hate being ignored.
    “Ignoring racism allows racist ideas and racist policies to flourish. We can be racist or anti racist, there is no third option.” — Imbram X. Kendi

    Some things are worth fighting for. Staying silent helps no one.

  8. #248
    Spectacular Member TheCasualReader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollowSage View Post
    “Ignoring racism allows racist ideas and racist policies to flourish. We can be racist or anti racist, there is no third option.” — Imbram X. Kendi

    Some things are worth fighting for. Staying silent helps no one.
    This.

    Ignoring racists means giving racist an inch and more because it allows them to voice their hideous views unopposed. The more you fight them, the harder they have to fight. The less you fight them, the less they have to fight. That's why speaking out against racism is so important because it means racists don't get to present their views as normal in any way. Usually, they end up having to create their own space to voice their opinions without fear of rebuttal, which makes it harder for them to radicalize others because people have to deliberately seek them out. It also means fewer POCs have to deal with seeing and experience racist bullshit and it means POCs feel more encouraged and less alienated.

    Staying silent only creates a space that normalizes racism.
    Last edited by TheCasualReader; 09-23-2022 at 03:34 AM.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCasualReader View Post
    This.

    Ignoring racists means giving racist an inch and more because it allows them to voice their hideous views unopposed. The more you fight them, the harder they have to fight. The less you fight them, the less they have to fight. That's why speaking out against racism is so important because it means racists don't get to present their views as normal in any way. Usually, they end up having to create their own space to voice their opinions without fear of rebuttal, which makes it harder for them to radicalize others because people have to deliberately seek them out. It also means fewer POCs have to deal with seeing and experience racist bullshit and it means POCs feel more encouraged and less alienated.

    Staying silent only creates a space that normalizes racism.
    You don't have to stay silent. But you don't fight them at their own game. Too many do and that is why they aren't going away.

    The way is what the studios are doing anyway. Casting diverse leads and expanding the breath of stories being told. Moving forward irrespective of what racists say.

    They either go with the current or they can fight against it, get tired, and drown.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollowSage View Post
    “Ignoring racism allows racist ideas and racist policies to flourish. We can be racist or anti racist, there is no third option.” — Imbram X. Kendi

    Some things are worth fighting for. Staying silent helps no one.
    And are you changing their opinions? Not having a dig, but an honest question here. Because they are just getting more vocal despite more people pushing against them.
    Last edited by Somecrazyaussie; 09-23-2022 at 04:08 AM.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    And are you changing their opinions? Not having a dig, but an honest question here. Because they are just getting more vocal despite more people pushing against them.
    If you were at an elementary school play and they were doing Cinderella and they had an African American girl playing Cinderella and some of the white parents started rumbling about Cinderella being white. Would you A keep quiet because you're not going to change their opinions anyway? or B tell them to STFU and let the little girl have her night?

    POC kids are watching this trailer and are seeing the comments it's demoralizing for them to read what some people think and without pushback it would give the idea that it's mainstream.

    I hate comparing "Keyboard Warriors" to people who actually fought and even died for civil rights because one takes no risk while the other risks it all. But when Jim Crow laws were being removed the whites across America South and North look at school busing for Northern examples got louder and violent with their objections and confronting them wasn't about changing hearts and minds it was about taking and stand and saying, "No this will not be tolerated anymore".

    When confronting Racism, Homophobia, Xenophobia, Misogyny, and bigotry in all its forms if you can change minds that's fantastic and the best outcome. But if you can't then it's about letting them know their day is past, they're dinosaurs and this is their extinction event, and they can whine, cry, yell, and scream all they want but it's happening their way of life has no future.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollowSage View Post
    “Ignoring racism allows racist ideas and racist policies to flourish. We can be racist or anti racist, there is no third option.” — Imbram X. Kendi

    Some things are worth fighting for. Staying silent helps no one.
    And Disney just edited out a 15 second gay kiss for it's foreign markets.

    Also how is Kelly Marie Tran's career going post Star Wars....
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Marie_Tran

    Oh...not very good. It's very clear that everyone is against racism in the marketing and promotion phases of these films. They just get real quiet after the films have been released. Nobody asks why these corporations keep doing these things and get away without having to face any consequences.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nods View Post
    And Disney just edited out a 15 second gay kiss for it's foreign markets.

    Also how is Kelly Marie Tran's career going post Star Wars....
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Marie_Tran

    Oh...not very good. It's very clear that everyone is against racism in the marketing and promotion phases of these films. They just get real quiet after the films have been released. Nobody asks why these corporations keep doing these things and get away without having to face any consequences.
    Probably because it's a nonsensical question. Consequences for what, exactly? And what do you think should happen to them?

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by 80sbaby View Post
    Probably because it's a nonsensical question. Consequences for what, exactly? And what do you think should happen to them?
    Right it's nonsense...the company does terrible things but casts a black woman as a mermaid so people take the monopoly's side...before we even see the film.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nods View Post
    Right it's nonsense...the company does terrible things but casts a black woman as a mermaid so people take the monopoly's side...before we even see the film.
    So they shouldn't cast POCs in anything lol good thinking there.

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