Catwoman as a Black Woman, problematic stereotyping?

[emfrst]

In recent years, we have seen a big boost to remake Selina as a black woman. It started in the Harley Quinn cartoon, then the Batman movie, now even the comic solo is giving her more African American features. Of course, Catwoman is a renown thief , who enjoys the finer things thanks to her loot. Meanwhile, a popular stereotyping of black people, by the KKK and such, is that they enjoy stealing and looting people for their own riches.

As such, making Selina a black girl could be reinforcing the stereotype in people's mind. Unfortunately, many incel Q-anon types read and worship Batman. So, being exposing to such stereotyping could be problematic to racial relation. Especially now, as Selina features are getting more African American in her solo, she is cheating on her lawfully wedded husband, Bruce Wayne, with another sketchy character. A black woman as a thieving, cheating girl is not a good look.

But maybe, DC does not care at all. Discovery is buying WB, DC parent company. Discovery big boss is a big MAGA type guy, and he is aggressively revamping CNN to be more like Fox News. So, I guess enabling such negative stereotyping of black people is a huge win in the subliminal messaging department

What do you think?

[Restingvoice]

I've read blogs and tweets by black women and they love it, especially since Catwoman's been depicted as black since the 60s
That stereotype about being poor and a thief doesn't seem to enter the equation
Don't know why
Though if I have to guess it's because at this point Selina is not viewed as a negative but an honor. One of the oldest female DC character, the most popular woman in Batman media, one of the most supported love interest of the hero by fans and producers alike.

She's also a long time independent woman icon, animal lover and anti-authority who knows what it's like to suffer and rise above it. Guessing many black women can relate to that.

Also she isn't cheating when they're not married or even in a relationship

[bat39]

I think in today's world you can find an argument for and against pretty much anything and everything with all the righteous fury and moral force you can command. Good arguments, bad arguments, strong arguments, weak arguments...they're all the same.

That said, I do think your post is the best possible argument against media companies doing anything to appeal (or pander) to any particular social or political ideology. Because no matter what they do, someone will always hate it. Race-bend a character? You p#ss off a sizable portion of the existing fanbase and people against left-wing identity politics (or 'wokeness') in general. Don't race-bend a character? You get accused of being a racist/white supremacist.

I'm willing to bet that if DC/WB issues a public statement that Selina Kyle will now and forever only be depicted as a white woman (and indeed, such a thing isn't so far-fetched...there's a Disney/Sony contract over Peter Parker in film that stipulates that he must be a white, straight male) you'd have people up in arms against that as well.

So yeah, they can't make anyone happy, especially not people who see politics everywhere...so maybe they should just stick to entertainment and tune out the rest?

[Alpha]

Don't race-bend a character? You get accused of being a racist/white supremacist.

You do? So were people angry when they found out Reed Richards was white in the MCU? Or when they found out Batman was still gonna be played by white actors?

I'm willing to bet that if DC/WB issues a public statement that Selina Kyle will now and forever only be depicted as a white woman

Why would they make a public statement to say that? That seems like legit trolling.

[Pete26]

In recent years, we have seen a big boost to remake Selina as a black woman. It started in the Harley Quinn cartoon, then the Batman movie, now even the comic solo is giving her more African American features. Of course, Catwoman is a renown thief , who enjoys the finer things thanks to her loot. Meanwhile, a popular stereotyping of black people, by the KKK and such, is that they enjoy stealing and looting people for their own riches.

As such, making Selina a black girl could be reinforcing the stereotype in people's mind. Unfortunately, many incel Q-anon types read and worship Batman. So, being exposing to such stereotyping could be problematic to racial relation. Especially now, as Selina features are getting more African American in her solo, she is cheating on her lawfully wedded husband, Bruce Wayne, with another sketchy character. A black woman as a thieving, cheating girl is not a good look.

But maybe, DC does not care at all. Discovery is buying WB, DC parent company. Discovery big boss is a big MAGA type guy, and he is aggressively revamping CNN to be more like Fox News. So, I guess enabling such negative stereotyping of black people is a huge win in the subliminal messaging department

What do you think?

Well Eartha Kitt played Catwoman after Julie Newmar left the series, so hardly a precedent, and this was the 1960's.

[Fergus]

I don't feel it's problematic. Selina at inception was always a poor girl who did crimes. She was also white while being all that. It's not like they changed her race then changed her alignment and backstory a la Titans Tim Drake who once race bent also became a street kid with working class background.

That is an example of a problematic race bend that reinforces negative stereotypes. it tells the reader that because Tim is now a POC his folks can't possibly be affluent. He can't be from the suburbs. He must now come from the streets.


POC Selina is welcomed and beloved by readers of colour. Eartha Kitt as catwoman was inspirational to a ton of actresses of colour back in the day and she is still is today.

Incels and bigots can think what they like. They are biased already so their POV isn't relevant here.

Representation and diversity isn't about telling racists that look POC are neat. It's not about sanitised idealised portrayals of marginalised groups.

It's about reflecting society and consumers.
Ensuring that as many readers as possible feel included and visible in the media they consume.

Rather than dwelling on what Bigots might be thinking, we should be considering how do women of colour feel about having a highly visible, well known character like Catwoman as a person of colour? They are the ones she's representing?


When I think of Catwoman what comes to mind isn't a stereotype or a poor girl who became a cat burglar. I think a strong woman who is living her life by her own rules, one of the most popular female comic characters, Batman's lover and a sexy charismatic femme fatale.


Also a few corrections.

Catwoman isn't married to Bruce
She isn't cheating. They are on a break
Catwoman as a POC predates the Harley Show by decades

[Confuzzled]

To OP, it's not problematic because Eartha Kitt served way back in the 60's. As Restingvoice said, black women tend to be fans of Selina. I guess they view her as the black woman version of Be Gay, Do Crimes.

It's very relatable and adds to the Gotham pathos when you consider Catwoman is the product of gentrification and marginalization of the poor, harsh realities that many black communities are forced into in urban areas. I think there's also some catharsis gained by seeing a black Catwoman steal jewels from museums and the 1% that are often plundered from Africa and other POC lands.

Basically this

[bat39]

You do? So were people angry when they found out Reed Richards was white in the MCU? Or when they found out Batman was still gonna be played by white actors?

If every member of the MCU Fantastic Four is white (well, in the Thing's case he's orange, but I'm talking pre-transformation Ben Grimm!) you can bet there will be some rumblings against it.

I remember the minor controversy sparked a couple of years ago when Rene-Jean Page pretty much accused Geoff Johns' of racism for not casting him as Superman's grandfather in SyFy's Krypton series.

Why would they make a public statement to say that? That seems like legit trolling.

I was being hypothetical (and a bit farcical admittedly ). Though the bit about Spider-Man is for real.

Even if no one makes it official, if DC adaptations moving forward exclusively stick to Selina Kyle as a white woman, you can bet people will have a problem with that too.

My larger point is that in today's world, you're going to inevitably 'offend' someone or the other. As a content creator, I think the only thing that should matter is artistic integrity and/or commercial appeal. Zoe Kravitz's portrayal as Selina Kyle is very much within that ambit - she's a talented actress who gave us possibly the best on-screen depiction of the character and she has considerable mainstream appeal which no doubt also contributed in a small way to the overall success of the film.

[Emperorjones]

I don't see it as stereotypical necessarily. Certainly, the things the OP has described have been used to stereotype Black characters in the past, and I would argue, the present as well, but it's also how you sometimes execute the writing/depictions, and if they are able to subvert them, and I generally think whenever Catwoman has been depicted as a Black character it doesn't fall into stereotype. As others have pointed out, Eartha Kitt played the role in the 1960s, and while Halle Berry didn't play Selina Kyle, she's the only actress to date that has a solo Catwoman movie with her name on it. That history is perhaps one reason I didn't see much stink raised about Zoe Kravitz in The Batman or Sanaa Lathan on the Harley Quinn series because the usual relying on history or tradition arguments didn't work for a character that was race bent almost six decades ago.

While some might consider Selina's impoverished backstory as well as her being a criminal as hitting on Black stereotypes (and those are), the way Selina is depicted, including the Black versions, often highlight her beauty, desirability, style, intellect, empathy, social conscience, courage, and fighting skills. Also, often when we see Catwoman she's already living a socialite life, which counters the impoverished stereotype. Notably, Zoe Kravitz's Selina has not yet become Catwoman.

The larger concern I have about making Catwoman Black is that it doesn't last long. I would rather the comics, movies, television series, and games, keep pushing to create new Black characters that can be on the level of a Catwoman. And also build up the existing Black characters that are already out there.

[Frontier]

To be honest I feel like staying true to the character and her roots should be important no matter what race you adapt her as, and the race shouldn't really matter to how you depict the character at all (especially if you race-bend).

[phonogram12]

Being black or white or any other ethnicity really has no bearing at all on the central core of the character. It really only matters when their ethnicity is central to their character like Black Panther, Storm, Shang-Chi, Luke Cage, Ms. Marvel and the like.

[Felipe Silveira]

There are many skin tones between black and white. Maybe because I'm Latino, I get a little lost in the middle of this discussion, since where I live it's a riot of mixtures of Iberians, Africans, natives. And there's a thing called Sun.

[Triniking1234]

"It started in the Harley Quinn cartoon"

lol

[Jim Kelly]

In my head canon for the T.V. show, Julie Newmar and Eartha Kitt were two different Catwomen. They were each so different from the other in how they acted that I see them as two completely separate characters. Were either of them Selina Kyle? Maybe not. And what about Lee Meriwether from the movie--she went by another assumed name--could be a third Catwoman.

I'm fine with Selina Kyle being a person of colour. In the old days, they made colouring mistakes all the time--and the number of colours they had for skin tones was very limited (and sometimes offensive).

[Username taken]

In recent years, we have seen a big boost to remake Selina as a black woman. It started in the Harley Quinn cartoon, then the Batman movie, now even the comic solo is giving her more African American features. Of course, Catwoman is a renown thief , who enjoys the finer things thanks to her loot. Meanwhile, a popular stereotyping of black people, by the KKK and such, is that they enjoy stealing and looting people for their own riches.

As such, making Selina a black girl could be reinforcing the stereotype in people's mind. Unfortunately, many incel Q-anon types read and worship Batman. So, being exposing to such stereotyping could be problematic to racial relation. Especially now, as Selina features are getting more African American in her solo, she is cheating on her lawfully wedded husband, Bruce Wayne, with another sketchy character. A black woman as a thieving, cheating girl is not a good look.

But maybe, DC does not care at all. Discovery is buying WB, DC parent company. Discovery big boss is a big MAGA type guy, and he is aggressively revamping CNN to be more like Fox News. So, I guess enabling such negative stereotyping of black people is a huge win in the subliminal messaging department

What do you think?

Catwoman has been depicted as black waaaaaaaaay back in the 1960s.

It's funny how America has some become simultaneously more and less racist over time.