Wolverine ruins Cyclops as a character

[Omega Alpha]

The issue with millitant cyclops is that there’s too much whiplash. It was bad during the “Worse than Hitler” material which was a goddamn trip, but going to that to this era where Apocalypse went around without any side-eye besides the best Cajun has got to be one of the prime examples of tonal whiplash ever.

Well that and burying what Bishop did.

There was clearly something intended with the Polycule, it fell through, the writers aren’t addressing it because probably the last thing anyone wants is to restart those shipping wars all over again.

The whiplash was almost entirely Marvel's. Not only most fans liked the character progression (among other things, because it actually was progression), but in fact most supported him in both Schism and AvX. Which is part of the reason editorial (which has many names still around to this day) was angry with it, I'm sure someone got a lot of flack for making Wolverine, Iron Man and Cap. America look like asses.

[Sutekh]

I do like how, back in the Dark Phoenix Saga days, Logan was shown being disrespectful and undercutting Scott's leadership, and Xavier riding him about it (20 demerits for that tantrum!), while *Scott* was the one doing the hard work of being a leader and giving Logan exactly as much rope as he needed to be 'led,' while not trying to yank him around like a tyrant (for which, again, Xavier scolds him and says that he shouldn't have made Scott leader if he couldn't just snap his fingers and make Logan jump).

It evolved over years, but Logan respects Scott as a leader, and Scott ****ing earned that. They are friends, by this point in their lives, and that wasn't an easy road, because Logan's a skittish cat that doesn't want to come inside the house. And, IMO, it just makes Scott look *better* as a leader, and a (fictional) person, that he's got the patience and strategic self-control to be able to earn the trust of someone like Logan, who is, temperamentally, pretty much his exact opposite, and who, due to his history of abuse at the hands of the Weapon X program, almost pathologically hard to get along with, like a dog that's been beat too much and won't let you put a hand near his head.

As for the other, anybody who A) has friends and B) isn't a monk, has at some point had to be a grown-up about being friends with someone who has dated the same person, or is dating (or marrying!) someone that you've dated (or been married to!). It's called adulting. Scott is very much not an incel. He's had the sex. (Back when Logan was a moody loner who would stutter like a schoolboy trying to *talk* to Mariko? Scott was having the sex.) He'd never use the word 'cuck.'

There's plenty of crap to throw down at Scott's feet and say, 'Dude! WTF?' like the brain-dead decision to resurrect Jean and have Scott up and abandon his wife and newborn son to reconnect up with his ex, but this is nonsense, IMO.

[Uncanny X-Man]

I do like how, back in the Dark Phoenix Saga days, Logan was shown being disrespectful and undercutting Scott's leadership, and Xavier riding him about it (20 demerits for that tantrum!), while *Scott* was the one doing the hard work of being a leader and giving Logan exactly as much rope as he needed to be 'led,' while not trying to yank him around like a tyrant (for which, again, Xavier scolds him and says that he shouldn't have made Scott leader if he couldn't just snap his fingers and make Logan jump).

It evolved over years, but Logan respects Scott as a leader, and Scott ****ing earned that. They are friends, by this point in their lives, and that wasn't an easy road, because Logan's a skittish cat that doesn't want to come inside the house. And, IMO, it just makes Scott look *better* as a leader, and a (fictional) person, that he's got the patience and strategic self-control to be able to earn the trust of someone like Logan, who is, temperamentally, pretty much his exact opposite, and who, due to his history of abuse at the hands of the Weapon X program, almost pathologically hard to get along with, like a dog that's been beat too much and won't let you put a hand near his head.

As for the other, anybody who A) has friends and B) isn't a monk, has at some point had to be a grown-up about being friends with someone who has dated the same person, or is dating (or marrying!) someone that you've dated (or been married to!). It's called adulting. Scott is very much not an incel. He's had the sex. (Back when Logan was a moody loner who would stutter like a schoolboy trying to *talk* to Mariko? Scott was having the sex.) He'd never use the word 'cuck.'

There's plenty of crap to throw down at Scott's feet and say, 'Dude! WTF?' like the brain-dead decision to resurrect Jean and have Scott up and abandon his wife and newborn son to reconnect up with his ex, but this is nonsense, IMO.

I'm really loving this post and your analysis of Scott's qualities as a leader, bravo.

[Frobisher]

I think this is only really true of the movies. In those he’s just this insufferable smug preppy guy - basically the guy the girl runs off with in every romcom before being learning the error of her ways - and he’s treated like a speed bump in Mary Sue Logan’s path to overcoming his dark past, becoming leader of the X-Men and banging the prom Queen. There’s very little sense of Cyclops the master strategist in those films.

[jpmst17]

I think this is only really true of the movies. In those he’s just this insufferable smug preppy guy - basically the guy the girl runs off with in every romcom before being learning the error of her ways - and he’s treated like a speed bump in Mary Sue Logan’s path to overcoming his dark past, becoming leader of the X-Men and banging the prom Queen. There’s very little sense of Cyclops the master strategist in those films.

yep. And I love James MArsden and think he looked the part, the material they gave him was worthless. The writers were awful with his character. Here's hoping the MCU will do him some justice

[Sutekh]

yep. And I love James MArsden and think he looked the part, the material they gave him was worthless. The writers were awful with his character. Here's hoping the MCU will do him some justice

In the first movie, in the scene where Logan flips Scott off, and Scott just smiles, felt right to me. Then the scene with Jean where Scott tells Logan to 'stay away from my girl' just undercut it, IMO, and presented him as insecure.

And then the second movie, ugh. I mean, at first I thought, at least a man is getting fridged to advance a woman's plot? But then it was all about Logan and his manpain at the end and not about Jean's journey at all (when Logan could have just picked up one of the hundred of so needles filled with mutant-power-negating drug littering the ground, rather than stabbing her with his claws, so it was not just a bad tone, but also badly written!).

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

I don't get it. Was this supposed to be a ghost/sneaky Percy appreciation thread or something?