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  1. #181
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exile001 View Post
    I'm not reading AXE but I read this issue as the old "you're actually judging yourself" thing. It appeared as Gwen because she's Peter's greatest loss, blah blah blah, but actual Gwen only appeared as a brief reward when Pete acknowledged he's a decent person.

    Doom would never judge Doom to be be unworthy. Lol.

    I did laugh at Osborn's glaring Gwen. That was just the right kind of silly.
    How someone judges themselves is part of the judgement, but there's more to it than that.



    (Immortal X-Men#6)

    The context here is that Destiny told everyone that if they attack a specific part of the Celestial, they could kill him without fucking over anyone else, that was a lie, killing him would cause an explosion that would kill the heroes involved, Destiny is justifying her actions as "I'm doing it for my own people", basically approving of her own actions, but the Celestial dismissed her reasonings and called out her hypocrisies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    That's definitely not how it's supposed to work. I think other writers took that from what they were probably told. The Celestial doesn't care what a person's reasonings are for their actions. The Celestial judged Captain America unworthy.
    To be fair, it is debatable if Cap would judge himself as worthy lol.

    Also, it never gave any kind of reward to any other person it judged. It just showed up for a minute, judged a person, and then left them.
    I keep hearing about this reward, and I'm wondering whether or not I should find out, 'cause it sounds like it'd be something stupid lol.

    Just the fact that there's a reward is stupid enough too...

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Because Peter's that special, I suppose. Not being sarcastic or resentful, either; I do appreciate that out of all the beings in this or any other iteration of the Marvel Universe, he's the one who somehow consistently impresses godlike beings or other such immensely powerful entities with his sheer character. A pity that some writers and editors have been terrible in getting that across, or even making him take actions that fly in the face of said character, but this was almost worth the price of admission for reminding us of what Peter can be and is when he is (written) at his best.
    But it's debatable if Spidey should even pass by the Celestial's standards (What I saw of how he judges people makes me think he shouldn't have passed), much less be rewarded for it, his most recent actions would put him in a negative light.

    As much as fans want Spidey to be rewarded for being a great person, he has to be one to be rewarded for it anyways, and shit man, Wells' run happening while the Celestial is judging people means he's doing some really stupid decisions that could arguably make him not pass.

    He definitely should not get a reward, no one else did, but he does? Why does he get special treatment when he's doing stupid shit lately?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    He shouldn't have in this case. The Progenitor has a very alien concept by which they judge to the point that Captain America, Luke Cage, and Daredevil failed while Kamala Khan, Miles Morales, and Doctor Doom passed. (Miles and Kamala are noble young heroes. Doom... is neither of those things.)
    Are you implying that being old means one is not passing the Celestial's judgement? .

    Hell, Kro and the Deviants passed the Progenitor's test.
    There were also a few Eternals who tried to kill him, Phastos passed while Makkari failed.

    When questioned about it, he says that Makkari failed 'cause even after realizing that making the Celestial was a bad idea, she says that she would try again, that she didn't learn from her mistakes, while Phastos passed because he did learn and decided to help the X-Men.

    So if anything the Celestial is surprisingly impartial when judging people.

    (You can make the argument that Peter passing at this point shows how scewy it is, but the entire way this issue handled the Progenitor doesn't match up at all with how Judgment Day handles everything. Makes me think the creative told was told something and misinterpreted what was going on.)
    Honestly, just the fact that Cap has failed already shows how screwy the whole thing is, issues later showing that fucking Doom passed also helps with that, the only thing Spidey adds to this are really weird inconsistencies.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  2. #182
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    I keep hearing about this reward, and I'm wondering whether or not I should find out, 'cause it sounds like it'd be something stupid lol.

    Just the fact that there's a reward is stupid enough too...

    As much as fans want Spidey to be rewarded for being a great person, he has to be one to be rewarded for it anyways, and shit man, Wells' run happening while the Celestial is judging people means he's doing some really stupid decisions that could arguably make him not pass.

    He definitely should not get a reward, no one else did, but he does? Why does he get special treatment when he's doing stupid shit lately?
    The issue is really stupid. The Progenitor lets Peter talk to some kind of Ghost Gwen, and Peter has a feeling this is the actual Gwen (then what was all that in Slott's Clone Conspiracy?).

    Are you implying that being old means one is not passing the Celestial's judgement? .
    Gillen did write Young Avengers with a strong sense of youthful rebellion to them. A run where all the olds were unable to break through Mother's spell to see what was really going on. It's kind of a theme with Gillen.

    Honestly, just the fact that Cap has failed already shows how screwy the whole thing is, issues later showing that fucking Doom passed also helps with that, the only thing Spidey adds to this are really weird inconsistencies.
    The Spider-Man thing really feels like the people writing this book didn't understand what they were told about the event.

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