Tim Drake: Robin #1 Preview

[Jackalope89]

Lobdell wasn't even divisive till after the New 52, and Bendis was one of DC's, if not their, highest paid creators. And to re-emphasize both were intended to flag ship entire lines. One was the case of the EIC wrongly betting on an old friend, and the other DC believing YJ had a bigger audience.

Lobdell really only found the perfect niche with Jason, especially in Rebirth. But otherwise faced major criticism on most other titles (but Bunker being an exception). Bendis was divisive from the get go, with half dreading his hire and the other half eager. The dreading half soon got half of the eager part when his work actually came out for DC.

[Godlike13]

Even with that pedigree, I think there are clear reasons why neither worked at selling a teen Superhero comic in the modern era.

Really, because almost all of Bendis' teen Superhero comics get adapted to other media. Even with DC Naomi quickly became a tv show, and Legion was going to till Discovery went scorched earth on DC projects in development.

Lobdell really only found the perfect niche with Jason, especially in Rebirth. But otherwise faced major criticism on most other titles (but Bunker being an exception). Bendis was divisive from the get go, with half dreading his hire and the other half eager. The dreading half soon got half of the eager part when his work actually came out for DC.

Lobdell faced major criticism as people read his crap and so became divisive. While Bendis is still one of the biggest names in the industry, which when your one of the biggest names it naturally comes with critics. Neither was a case of lack of support. DC didn't think either of these projects would go belly up or do what they did. They aspired for these books to lead the launch of entire lines, and supported them with creators who they thought were good and capable of doing that at the time.

[skyvolt2000]

No lets say exactly what you said.

I think the blame for that is something you have to put at least to degree on the editors and on DCs overall direction.

The lack of a solo or mini goes on editorial.

Along with the dumster fire of books Tim got dumped in.

While Lobdell was bad-excluding Baby Doomsday-the majority of his books saw decent runs. He kept stuff afloat.

Even with that pedigree, I think there are clear reasons why neither worked at selling a teen Superhero comic in the modern era.

Bendis resume says otherwise.

Naomi did get a tv show (and the hate towards Ava with it) and Miles Morales and Riri Williams.

So the resume of Bendis says let him try Young Justice.

The issue with that book-the roster folks wanted was NOT the one they got. For folks not existing or being way different than the tv version.

[Godlike13]

The lack of a solo or mini goes on editorial.

Along with the dumster fire of books Tim got dumped in.

While Lobdell was bad-excluding Baby Doomsday-the majority of his books saw decent runs. He kept stuff afloat.

Their asperations were bigger then a simple solo, and when it comes to Lobdell if another writer were on them most his books wouldn't have been kept afloat.

[Frontier]

Really, because almost all of Bendis' teen Superhero comics get adapted to other media. Even with DC Naomi quickly became a tv show, and Legion was going to till Discovery went scorched earth on DC projects in development.

He was co-writing Naomi with David Walker and his Legion barely got off the ground before it got canceled. He just had some media pull that didn't really amount to much, but he's been delivering diminishing returns since he was still at Marvel.

Lobdell faced major criticism as people read his crap and so became divisive. While Bendis is still one of the biggest names in the industry, which when your one of the biggest names it naturally comes with critics. Neither was a case of lack of support. DC didn't think either of these projects would go belly up or do what they did. They aspired for these books to lead the launch of entire lines, and supported them with creators who they thought were good and capable of doing that at the time.

I don't know if they were expecting the New 52 Titans to fail, but the amount of influence editorial seemed to have with the book didn't seem to help it much. But it was the New 52, DC wasn't known for making good creative decisions or properly developing their line.

[MajorHoy]

. . . I don't know if they were expecting the New 52 Titans to fail, but the amount of influence editorial seemed to have with the book didn't seem to help it much. But it was the New 52, DC wasn't known for making good creative decisions or properly developing their line.

And don't forget, Lobdell got hit early on in the New52 with the switch from whether there had been previous groups called the "Teen Titans" to DC finally deciding there had NEVER been any previous Teen Titans groups after the first issues of the New52 books had already been published & distributed.

[Morgoth]

I'm wondering how the sales are going. First issue didn't get into this week's Bleeding Cool bestseller list.

[godisawesome]

And don't forget, Lobdell got hit early on in the New52 with the switch from whether there had been previous groups called the "Teen Titans" to DC finally deciding there had NEVER been any previous Teen Titans groups after the first issues of the New52 books had already been published & distributed.

Yeah, while I think that Lobdell never actually got a hold on Tim in particular and and would have proved himself a horrible writer for Tim regardless, the rest of his Titans book and Superboy run started actually okay…

…and then his mediocrity became paired with being a bootlicking sycophant for his bosses, and Lobdell’s just not good enough to actually make competent stories from shitty editorial edicts.

He can be a competent journeyman writer (not more than that) - but it’s clear his biggest asset to DC throughout his tenure is that he’s a total yes-man to editorial and an obedient member of the boy’s club that Didio let Berganza and others create.

His Teen Titans run degenerated swiftly once DC discovered how pliable he was to whatever whims his editors had… which not coincidentally aligned with him getting more high profile jobs.

[OBrianTallent]

Yeah, while I think that Lobdell never actually got a hold on Tim in particular and and would have proved himself a horrible writer for Tim regardless, the rest of his Titans book and Superboy run started actually okay…

…and then his mediocrity became paired with being a bootlicking sycophant for his bosses, and Lobdell’s just not good enough to actually make competent stories from shitty editorial edicts.

He can be a competent journeyman writer (not more than that) - but it’s clear his biggest asset to DC throughout his tenure is that he’s a total yes-man to editorial and an obedient member of the boy’s club that Didio let Berganza and others create.

His Teen Titans run degenerated swiftly once DC discovered how pliable he was to whatever whims his editors had… which not coincidentally aligned with him getting more high profile jobs.

First of all, can you please not insult the writer by calling him names. Secondly, he is a comic book writer and maintaining a career in mainstream comics (where most of the money is at) means adhering to what the editors say and want. If you have a job, you do it the way your supervisor tells you. A lot of the New 52 failure can be attributed to editorial (and mostly higher) making last minute changes. Does that admonish him of all guilt, no of course not.

[Aahz]

I think in the end of the day I don't think that any writer could have made the new 52 Teen Titans really work.

All of the characters got new origins, lost their entire history and got (with exception of Tim) completely sperated from from their parent franchise. And was from my a decision from the editorial.

The book could have been written better, but I don't think that the fans would have ever really embraced these new versions of the characters.

[OBrianTallent]

I think in the end of the day I don't think that any writer could have made the new 52 Teen Titans really work.

All of the characters got new origins, lost their entire history and got (with exception of Tim) completely sperated from from their parent franchise. And was from my a decision from the editorial.

The book could have been written better, but I don't think that the fans would have ever really embraced these new versions of the characters.

Completely agree. It was a trainwreck in the making (as was most of 52 in my opinion.)

[jpmst17]

I'm wondering how the sales are going. First issue didn't get into this week's Bleeding Cool bestseller list.

I bought this book and it was pretty bad. The art was horrid. Distractingly horrid. I didn't love the story either. I'm going to pass on the rest of this and forget that it ever existed

[godisawesome]

First of all, can you please not insult the writer by calling him names. Secondly, he is a comic book writer and maintaining a career in mainstream comics (where most of the money is at) means adhering to what the editors say and want. If you have a job, you do it the way your supervisor tells you. A lot of the New 52 failure can be attributed to editorial (and mostly higher) making last minute changes. Does that admonish him of all guilt, no of course not.

Lobdell being so pliable and enabling as an employee allowed Didio and Berganza to continue a toxic atmosphere in the Superman books, and Lobdell’s extra-curricular comments show that his privilege and connections aligned with Berganza and others. Plenty of other writers could actually bring up objections to DC’s editorial and not get fired, though some did - Lobdell being useful because he was a yes-man just meant he assisted bad editorial decisions.

He also took on too many jobs beyond his capacity because he was so pliable and arrogant, resulting in extra shitty writing that editorial actually didn’t order on top of their crappy sandwiches - like when he wrote a sexual assault scene with Tim and Cassie in Teen Titans he wanted to play off as romantic and dramatic while trying to be the Superman writer at the same time. In fact, at that point he was just plotting the Titans book while Fabian Nicieza was handling the dialogue (and only the dialogue) because he refused to let a better writer in Nicieza deal with the actual story.

Lobdell should have known his own limits and been a responsible coworker as well as an employee - instead, he remained a hatchet man for editorial outside of his Red Hood books. He even interrupted Pfeifer’s run to carry out a crappy change in direction just so editorial could remove Kon from the playing field.

His blind obedience became a liability to the books and because he was an obsequious henchman.

[agentofthebat]

I think I am going to skip this. Wasnt really feeling it.

[dietrich]

He was co-writing Naomi with David Walker and his Legion barely got off the ground before it got canceled. He just had some media pull that didn't really amount to much, but he's been delivering diminishing returns since he was still at Marvel.

I don't know if they were expecting the New 52 Titans to fail, but the amount of influence editorial seemed to have with the book didn't seem to help it much. But it was the New 52, DC wasn't known for making good creative decisions or properly developing their line.

when DC was running ads for Bendis is coming do you think they were planning on him failing? Or hoping on him failing?

When they were promoting YJ as the face of DC's Rebirth Teen Imprint above brands like Supersons and TT. Do you think they knew it was going to fail or do you think they were hoping for the whole endeavour to be a success?

In the new 52 when DC replaced Dick's generation with Tim's and invested in them as founding members of the TT franchise. do you think that DC was doing hoping it will be a failure? Do you think that Dc put Lobdell on TT hoping/knowing it would fail or do you think they were hoping to succeed?

The same questions I pose to Skyvolt and Aahz.