Tim Drake: Robin #1 Preview

[Fergus]

And the problem with that is implying that in order to find himself outside of Robin and the Batfamily he needs to be away from Steph implies that their relationship is tied to their vigilante identities or he couldn't so with her which isn't true at all:

https://incoherentbabblings.tumblr.c...ions-trying-to

In Detective Comics Rebirth HE WAS trying to find himself outside of Robin via going to college and said Steph was a huge part in him doing that. Hell at the end of Rebirth and in the beginning of YJ Bendis Tim was being away from the Batfamily to find his own space with Steph

Detective Comics Rebirth also made it clear Tim doesn't want to be Robin forever or a vigilante forever hence the college thing and arrival of Future Batman. It's a consistent thing with Tim and a core part of his character: https://twitter.com/sorcerexsupreme/...31571981934592

No the problem is some shippers inability to understand that Tim just might want to be away from Steph to be with the his new love. Tim broke up with Steph. Why in the world world he ask her to move to a new place with him and his current beau as he steps out of the family. Who would do that.

Tim fell in love with someone else and Tim has been trying to find where he belongs.

Can you give me one reason why Tim would want Steph here with him and Bernard considering their current situation.

In Detective comics Tim applied for College and decided not to go rather going back to Robin.

In Detective Comics Tim also told Steph and everyone including his future batself that he was staying. He declined the uni offer to stay Robin. Deciding to find YJ and restart his hero life.

Detective Comics Rebirth the comic you keep pulling panels from is the series where Tim choose hero work and rejected going to college. Did you finish it? If Tim had two options accept the college offer and leave with Steph or find YJ and go back to how his life was back in the day [with Yj as Robin]. Remind me again. Which did he do?

Thank you.

A core part of his character? And yet earlier in this thread @Somerandom stated that tim only wanted to Robin [they also posted panels that showed Tim saying that he wanted to be robin forever Have you not seen those panels? Since you are a Tim fan I'll assume you have and are simply c herry picking panels that work to your biased pov]

Nothing is a core part of the Tim Drake character. He has changed. He is allowed to change. He dumped Steph didn't he? He changed we all do as time passes.

Why should Tim take his ex girlfriend with him as he attempts to figure his place bearing in mind he's just started dating someone new? If you were Tim, would you take Steph?

Steph and tim aren't joined at the hip. he is allowed to dump and no want to have her around as he starts a new relationship. That's how it usually happens. most of us don't take our exes when we move away with our new love to start a new job.

You are lying about YJ by Bendis. Tim was away from the batfamily to spend time with Steph. That is a very bold lie.

Tim made the choice to reject the normal life and stay Robin in Detective comics after his future self [the evil batman] reminded about Conner. That quest to find Conner is the Bendis YJ run. steph simply tagged along.

You know it's becoming clear how much Steph just tagged along. Tim's going to University Steph comes along even though she doesn't have an offer at the uni/college

Tim decides to go find his team, Steph comes along despite being a Gotham based hero.

Tim moves to a Marina with his new boyfriend, fans are pissed that Steph didn't tag along. Steph isn't a dog. She isn't Tim's pet that he is obligated to take everywhere with him. I know it feels like that but she actually isn't.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

No the problem is some shippers inability to understand that Tim just might want to be away from Steph to be with the his new love. Tim broke up with Steph. Why in the world world he ask her to move to a new place with him and his current beau as he steps out of the family. Who would do that.

Tim fell in love with someone else and Tim has been trying to find where he belongs.

Can you give me one reason why Tim would want Steph here with him and Bernard considering their current situation.

In Detective comics Tim applied for College and decided not to go rather going back to Robin.

In Detective Comics Tim also told Steph and everyone including his future batself that he was staying. He declined the uni offer to stay Robin. Deciding to find YJ and restart his hero life.

Detective Comics Rebirth the comic you keep pulling panels from is the series where Tim choose hero work and rejected going to college. Did you finish it? If Tim had two options accept the college offer and leave with Steph or find YJ and go back to how his life was back in the day [with Yj as Robin]. Remind me again. Which did he do?

Thank you.

A core part of his character? And yet earlier in this thread @Somerandom stated that tim only wanted to Robin [they also posted panels that showed Tim saying that he wanted to be robin forever Have you not seen those panels? Since you are a Tim fan I'll assume you have and are simply c herry picking panels that work to your biased pov]

Nothing is a core part of the Tim Drake character. He has changed. He is allowed to change. He dumped Steph didn't he? He changed we all do as time passes.

Why should Tim take his ex girlfriend with him as he attempts to figure his place bearing in mind he's just started dating someone new? If you were Tim, would you take Steph?

Steph and tim aren't joined at the hip. he is allowed to dump and no want to have her around as he starts a new relationship. That's how it usually happens. most of us don't take our exes when we move away with our new love to start a new job.

You are lying about YJ by Bendis. Tim was away from the batfamily to spend time with Steph. That is a very bold lie.

Tim made the choice to reject the normal life and stay Robin in Detective comics after his future self [the evil batman] reminded about Conner. That quest to find Conner is the Bendis YJ run. steph simply tagged along.

You know it's becoming clear how much Steph just tagged along. Tim's going to University Steph comes along even though she doesn't have an offer at the uni/college

Tim decides to go find his team, Steph comes along despite being a Gotham based hero.

Tim moves to a Marina with his new boyfriend, fans are pissed that Steph didn't tag along. Steph isn't a dog. She isn't Tim's pet that he is obligated to take everywhere with him. I know it feels like that but she actually isn't.

You've completely missed the point. I'm not saying Steph should have come here while broken up with Tim. I'm more talking about the alleged reasons why Tim list as why he likes Bernard so much which include that Bernard for the first time is helping him find a place outside of the Batman/Batam which implies Stephanie didn't during their romantic relationship, when she actually DID.

In the start of Detective Comics Rebirth at the start he was planning to to college and abandon the life but the events of the series changed him and his mind. It doesn't change that at the start he was looking to define himself outside of Robin and Steph played a role in that. Also at the start Tim was planning to go to college while Steph would stay in Gotham and she would commute to meet with him. It was after he came back from being 'dead' for months did she think about also applying which is reasonable as she thought she lost him for good.

In Bendis YJ at the start he and Steph were going on a journey AWAY from Batman and the Batfamily to discover the changes made to the universe as a result of Flashpoint, which is why they met Zatanna. Tim was motivated to find YJ after the meeting with Zatanna which sparked memories of Conner and the YJ.

[Fergus]

You've completely missed the point. I'm not saying Steph should have come here while broken up with Tim. I'm more talking about the alleged reasons why Tim list as why he likes Bernard so much

Ah.
I think you must be on the wrong Tim Drake thread. This is the comment thread we are discussing here:

Does anyone else think that Darcy/Sparrow feels completely unnecessary? I mean they could’ve just used Spoiler or Bluebird instead? I know Darcy was created by Fitzmartin and that’s why she’s here, but this is supposed to be about a Tim being on his own, so why isn’t he on his own?

[WebLurker]

You've completely missed the point. I'm not saying Steph should have come here while broken up with Tim. I'm more talking about the alleged reasons why Tim list as why he likes Bernard so much which include that Bernard for the first time is helping him find a place outside of the Batman/Batam which implies Stephanie didn't during their romantic relationship, when she actually DID.

Unless, in retrospect, he'd finding that being with Bernard is much more of a clean break. Perspectives change with life experiences and it's certainly possible that Steph did help him find space for a time, but it wasn't enough or things shifted in the relationship over time and threw things out of whack. Also, he did meet Steph through the Bat-Family and she did join it, so dating someone with no affiliation with it would be a cleaner break by default, especially since Steph wound up rooming with Cass and Barbara and going all-in on their Batgirl team.

In the start of Detective Comics Rebirth at the start he was planning to to college and abandon the life but the events of the series changed him and his mind. It doesn't change that at the start he was looking to define himself outside of Robin and Steph played a role in that. Also at the start Tim was planning to go to college while Steph would stay in Gotham and she would commute to meet with him. It was after he came back from being 'dead' for months did she think about also applying which is reasonable as she thought she lost him for good.

In Bendis YJ at the start he and Steph were going on a journey AWAY from Batman and the Batfamily to discover the changes made to the universe as a result of Flashpoint, which is why they met Zatanna. Tim was motivated to find YJ after the meeting with Zatanna which sparked memories of Conner and the YJ.

All that could be true and still not be enough to save the relationship when it fell apart.

I guess, at this point, there seem to be two possible models of what happened. One is that the relationship was on solid ground before (e.g. early Rebirth, going to find the Young Justice members, etc.) and then, around the time that Tim started questioning his sexuality, things fell apart and couldn't be fixed. The comics might be hazy on how it fell apart, but that would

The second is that we take what's being said at face value in the current series and the relationship was never working on Tim's end, but it took him a long time to realize that he needed to end things and wasn't until he started to date Bernard that he was able to articulate why Steph wasn't right for him (hence the comments about him "settling" and that Steph didn't really let him make a clean break from the Bat-Family). It would also be possible for the relationship to be working for Steph despite Tim being on a different page; e.g. a scenario where he was "the one" for her but she wasn't right for him, if that makes any sense. (If you read the Ultimate Spider-Man comics, they did something similar when Spider-Man briefly dated Shadowcat; on her end of things, it was going great and she wanted the relationship to continue, but it fell apart when Spider-Man realized that he was still in love with Mary Jane and that he wanted to reconcile with her. Two people entered a relationship with the intent of giving it a fair shot, but learned they ultimately wanted different things, despite the initial dates going really well.)

Guess it also depends on how meta you want to go with it. Technically speaking, current canon is that Steph wasn't right for Tim and Bernard is. You can argue that the previous series are a poor fit with that idea, it's OOC, or whatever, but that's a different POV. (Long story short, should we take the real-world view of how these stories are written by different authors with different approaches -- e.g. some stories where Tim and Steph are soulmates and others where they never were -- or do we take what's on the written page as how things are and extrapolate from there.)

[SomeRandomSmartA55]

1/2

He left because he's trying to figure out his place in the world. Who he is. We were told all this in Urban Legend.

that means, no Steph, No bats. Tim is trying to find himself away from his then life.
This is about Tim feeling like he doesn't belong in family since there is another Robin.

When the original Robin, the creator of legacy tells you that someone else has earned the right to Robin mantle and that you should move on. That's gotta hit especially when you were already removed from that role.

Damian did not become Robin because he earned the right to wear it, he got it because he was a feral child that needed to be kept on a leash so that he wouldn't kill anyone. Dick did not allow Tim to be Robin because he saw him as an equal not a sidekick, and because he felt that Tim wasn't properly grieving Bruce's "death." That's the problem with Tim right now, he's already evolved beyond Robin by becoming Red Robin, but they keep regressing him instead of moving him forward.

RCO011.jpg

Tim took the Robin position on the agreement that he would step aside when another suitable person came along. He would go back to his regular life. Tim's folks are dead and 4 years ago Damian came along and became Robin, then Duke also came along 3 years ago.

Yes that is true, he did say several times that he would step aside. However upon rereading, I noticed one thing. That whole idea of stepping aside changed when Tim's father died.
RCO025_1468922396.jpgRCO021_1469623819.jpg

That's two replacement people and yet Tim is still Robin and abandoned his Uni offer. He doesn't want the normal life. He always wanted to to be Robin regardless of what he said in order to get the job in his origin story. Like he said to OZ, "It had to be me. I wanted Batman to notice me"

Tim always wanted to be Robin and now Dick Grayson the Original Robin. The bat family hero Tim approached 1st. The one Tim respects. Dick was Tim's entry point into this role and now is telling him that the someone else has earned that role so move on.

Tim himself asked if I'm not Robin then what am I? That's what this is about. Tim finding himself away from the family.

That's the thing though, we've already gone through this arc in Red Robin and it was incredible, so this whole arc about Tim discovering himself feels redundant because we have already gone through it.

As for Tim wanting to be Robin, here's a quote from Marv Wolfman

"My thoughts were that this Robin should want to be Robin and not Batman. … That he have parents, to differentiate him from all other kid partners, and that he not only be a good athlete but incredibly bright and intuitive.

To accomplish some of that, I had him at the circus, as a very young child, when [original Robin] Dick Grayson's parents were killed; I thought that would be something he'd never forget and would cement the memory of Dick's performance in his mind. The rest followed out of that. … Tim was smart enough to figure out Dick Grayson was Robin and therefore who Batman was. He did what adults couldn’t.

The readers had to understand that this was someone worthy of being Robin. Also, because his parents and family were all still alive, that he was not fueled by rage or revenge. He was doing what he did because it was right. … I worked to make him a character readers could understand and sympathize with. He was no a victim; he was doing what was right." - Marv Wolfman

here's the link:
https://www.gamesradar.com/tim-drake...ory-batman-dc/

The only reason Tim stopped being Robin was after his Dad found out and Tim had to give it up so he wouldn't blow Bruce's secret, and the other time he stopped was when Dick took it from him and gave it to Damian. So he then became Red Robin, becoming his own man while also continuing the legacy of being Robin. This whole book's premise is moot, because it's already been done before, and done significantly better.

Why is it that the people who are not the biggest Tim fans are the ones defending this book the most? It's a weird trend I noticed.

[SomeRandomSmartA55]

2/2

This was all set up and told to us in Urban Legends. That is why Steph isn't here. Steph shouldn't and couldn't be here.
It was never about Tim working alone.

It makes sense, you are just actively ignoring everything that's been set up with Tim since Rebirth Tec, YJ, and Urban Legends.

No it doesn't because there was no set up at all, we just jumped right in the middle of the story without any buildup. Rebirth & Bendis YJ had Tim & Steph at an all time high of their relationship, Tynion's Detective literally ended with them driving off to the sunset together. Bendis YJ had several instances of them being mad in love, then poof, he dumped her off panel and started dating someone else. Why? Still waiting. If they wanted them to break up doing it off-panel was a terrible decision. And it makes zero sense pairing him with Bernard of all people. Think about it, Tim and Steph were planning their lives together in Rebirith, Tim struggling between his duties with the Gotham Knights, and his want to go to college at one of the most prestine unversities anyone could get into. Steph wanted to apply too, because he came back from "the dead," then later on they ran off together for Young Justice, then after that they just suddenly break up because Tim wanted to date Bernard?! How does that make sense?

Bernard was a character who barely left an impact on Tim's life. He was just a friend he made when he went to a new school, his sole purpose was to establish the Darla likes Tim plotline, who was all about conspiracies, pinned after Dana, and in his last appearance before Urban Legends he sold Tim out to a sorta supervillain, and he started a rumor about Stephanie being Tim's imaginary girlfriend which led to Darla kissing Tim, which led to Steph putting on a Robin costume. Stephanie Brown is a girl he helped through a teenage pregnancy, constantly fought alongside her, saved each other's lives on several occasions, shared a book with, she felt comfortable telling Tim about her sexual assault, in his dying breath said that being with her was the time of his life and helped him realize the kind of man he wants to be.

If they want Tim and Steph to be separated, then give us a reason that makes sense, like oh I don't know, Tim going to college and the long-distance relationship causes issues and leads Tim to explore his sexuality. Some of the ideas in this book are sound, the execution is dogshit tho.

Tim Drake thread 2021 has numerous comments about Bernard being a male Steph.

Haven't been on that thread yet.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

Unless, in retrospect, he'd finding that being with Bernard is much more of a clean break. Perspectives change with life experiences and it's certainly possible that Steph did help him find space for a time, but it wasn't enough or things shifted in the relationship over time and threw things out of whack. Also, he did meet Steph through the Bat-Family and she did join it, so dating someone with no affiliation with it would be a cleaner break by default, especially since Steph wound up rooming with Cass and Barbara and going all-in on their Batgirl team.



All that could be true and still not be enough to save the relationship when it fell apart.

I guess, at this point, there seem to be two possible models of what happened. One is that the relationship was on solid ground before (e.g. early Rebirth, going to find the Young Justice members, etc.) and then, around the time that Tim started questioning his sexuality, things fell apart and couldn't be fixed. The comics might be hazy on how it fell apart, but that would

The second is that we take what's being said at face value in the current series and the relationship was never working on Tim's end, but it took him a long time to realize that he needed to end things and wasn't until he started to date Bernard that he was able to articulate why Steph wasn't right for him (hence the comments about him "settling" and that Steph didn't really let him make a clean break from the Bat-Family). It would also be possible for the relationship to be working for Steph despite Tim being on a different page; e.g. a scenario where he was "the one" for her but she wasn't right for him, if that makes any sense. (If you read the Ultimate Spider-Man comics, they did something similar when Spider-Man briefly dated Shadowcat; on her end of things, it was going great and she wanted the relationship to continue, but it fell apart when Spider-Man realized that he was still in love with Mary Jane and that he wanted to reconcile with her. Two people entered a relationship with the intent of giving it a fair shot, but learned they ultimately wanted different things, despite the initial dates going really well.)

Guess it also depends on how meta you want to go with it. Technically speaking, current canon is that Steph wasn't right for Tim and Bernard is. You can argue that the previous series are a poor fit with that idea, it's OOC, or whatever, but that's a different POV. (Long story short, should we take the real-world view of how these stories are written by different authors with different approaches -- e.g. some stories where Tim and Steph are soulmates and others where they never were -- or do we take what's on the written page as how things are and extrapolate from there.)

Yeah the thing is the series keepings telling us this but not really explaining or showing things such as the whole changed perspectives or anything to justify what changed with Steph aside from "I'm bi" nor does it even hint at the "clean break". And true it started that way but it was made clear MANY times that their relationship was NOT based on their identities early on: https://incoherentbabblings.tumblr.c...ions-trying-to

Also in Rebirth he was planning to quit fully from the Batfam while still being with Steph who would have been part of it so that "clean break" justification doesn't hold water at all as with Bernard he is still being a vigilante and thus tied to the Batfam as he is Robin.

The thing is it's hard to things at face value when they don't properly explain things or flat out ignore history. The 'clean break' thing you said is never brought up or hinted at all (and already untrue) and we don't know why he was allegedly 'settling' for Steph which is also completely untrue at well and the 'same page' thing is also never hinted at.

I think you're giving the author WAY too much credit and justification to try make sense of something that really isn't that thought out or well-written on her and as everything you have been saying to try to justify the breakup has never been hinted at or addressed by the author. We can't accept things at face value simply becuse they are there if they are poorly explained. Using that logic we should have accepted Sins Past at face value despite it complete nonsense or just accept One More Day despite it being nonsense as well. The meta justification can only go so far and if it isn't supported by the actual story/good writing then people have a right to voice their complaints and say it's bad or otherwise we should just accept anything an author writes.

[SomeRandomSmartA55]

Unless, in retrospect, he'd finding that being with Bernard is much more of a clean break. Perspectives change with life experiences and it's certainly possible that Steph did help him find space for a time, but it wasn't enough or things shifted in the relationship over time and threw things out of whack. Also, he did meet Steph through the Bat-Family and she did join it, so dating someone with no affiliation with it would be a cleaner break by default, especially since Steph wound up rooming with Cass and Barbara and going all-in on their Batgirl team.



All that could be true and still not be enough to save the relationship when it fell apart.

I guess, at this point, there seem to be two possible models of what happened. One is that the relationship was on solid ground before (e.g. early Rebirth, going to find the Young Justice members, etc.) and then, around the time that Tim started questioning his sexuality, things fell apart and couldn't be fixed. The comics might be hazy on how it fell apart, but that would

The second is that we take what's being said at face value in the current series and the relationship was never working on Tim's end, but it took him a long time to realize that he needed to end things and wasn't until he started to date Bernard that he was able to articulate why Steph wasn't right for him (hence the comments about him "settling" and that Steph didn't really let him make a clean break from the Bat-Family). It would also be possible for the relationship to be working for Steph despite Tim being on a different page; e.g. a scenario where he was "the one" for her but she wasn't right for him, if that makes any sense. (If you read the Ultimate Spider-Man comics, they did something similar when Spider-Man briefly dated Shadowcat; on her end of things, it was going great and she wanted the relationship to continue, but it fell apart when Spider-Man realized that he was still in love with Mary Jane and that he wanted to reconcile with her. Two people entered a relationship with the intent of giving it a fair shot, but learned they ultimately wanted different things, despite the initial dates going really well.)

Guess it also depends on how meta you want to go with it. Technically speaking, current canon is that Steph wasn't right for Tim and Bernard is. You can argue that the previous series are a poor fit with that idea, it's OOC, or whatever, but that's a different POV. (Long story short, should we take the real-world view of how these stories are written by different authors with different approaches -- e.g. some stories where Tim and Steph are soulmates and others where they never were -- or do we take what's on the written page as how things are and extrapolate from there.)

The thing is though, that settling thing would work better if Tim was gay, but he's not, he's bi. Being bi means you don't "settle" for either gender you fall in love with that person regardless of their gender because you are attracted to them or feel connected to them. The writing has not even begun to justify or prove why the hell Tim is attracted to this guy, he just is, for some inexplicable reason. Another thing about being bi is the struggle of being in a hetero relationship and having to tell your significant other that you're also into the same sex. I've been in that situation several times, and have faced both acceptance and rejection. The face that we only saw Tim tell Stephanie AFTER they broke up is a problem, not to mention her reaction which is OOC and incredibly unrealistic. Yes I've had a girlfriend fine with me being bi, but I wasn't gonna introduce her to the guy I dated afterwards, we did meet by accident and it was incredibly awkward, not the best day ever!

[NOCTPHOENIX]

The thing is though, that settling thing would work better if Tim was gay, but he's not, he's bi. Being bi means you don't "settle" for either gender you fall in love with that person regardless of their gender because you are attracted to them or feel connected to them. The writing has not even begun to justify or prove why the hell Tim is attracted to this guy, he just is, for some inexplicable reason. Another thing about being bi is the struggle of being in a hetero relationship and having to tell your significant other that you're also into the same sex. I've been in that situation several times, and have faced both acceptance and rejection. The face that we only saw Tim tell Stephanie AFTER they broke up is a problem, not to mention her reaction which is OOC and incredibly unrealistic. Yes I've had a girlfriend fine with me being bi, but I wasn't gonna introduce her to the guy I dated afterwards, we did meet by accident and it was incredibly awkward, not the best day ever!

Aside from being unrealistic it comes across as manipulative as well. Introducing her to his new partner right after he apologizes and she brings up that she missed him too and telling her this newfound revelation is throwing too much at her and not giving her a chance to properly sort her feelings/be with the news. Plus it would limit her chance to really express anything but positive things as it could be interpreted by Tim as her not accepting him being bi and potentially jeapordize them after reconcilling which Steph wouldn't want.

[SomeRandomSmartA55]

Aside from being unrealistic it comes across as manipulative as well. Introducing her to his new partner right after he apologizes and she brings up that she missed him too and telling her this newfound revelation is throwing too much at her and not giving her a chance to properly sort her feelings/be with the news. Plus it would limit her chance to really express anything but positive things as it could be interpreted by Tim as her not accepting him being bi and potentially jeapordize them after reconcilling which Steph wouldn't want.

The Stephanie Brown I know and love would be punching people in the face. And especially considering that Steph thought Tim was cheating on her on two separate occasions and did not take it well despite Tim being faithful in both scenarios. Now here, he just dumps her out of the blue and introduces her to him, and it the best day ever?! Make it make sense DC! It's not homophobic for her to be justifiably angry.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

The Stephanie Brown I know and love would be punching people in the face. And especially considering that Steph thought Tim was cheating on her on two separate occasions and did not take it well despite Tim being faithful in both scenarios. Now here, he just dumps her out of the blue and introduces her to him, and it the best day ever?! Make it make sense DC! It's not homophobic for her to be justifiably angry.

Nah, she wouldn't punch him or anyone, but she would clearly voice her discomfort and displeasure. Steph's reaction to Bernard makes her look like she has no self-respect. I mean sure she can understand why Tim did what he did but it doesn't change the fact he stll treated her awfully. After one apology and conversation she then salivates over his new partner? Where is her sense of dignity?

She didn't salivate over Tim being engaged (fake but she didn't know at the time) to Tam Fox or his relationship with Zoanne so this one shouldn't be different. If she's salivating over Bernard for being a dude it reeks of fetishization and if she acted that way to Tam or Zo simply because they were black, people would say the same thing.

[SomeRandomSmartA55]

Nah, she wouldn't punch him or anyone, but she would clearly voice her discomfort and displeasure. Steph's reaction to Bernard makes her look like she has no self-respect. I mean sure she can understand why Tim did what he did but it doesn't change the fact he stll treated her awfully. After one apology and conversation she then salivates over his new partner? Where is her sense of dignity?

She didn't salivate over Tim being engaged (fake but she didn't know at the time) to Tam Fox or his relationship with Zoanne so this one shouldn't be different. If she's salivating over Bernard for being a dude it reeks of fetishization and if she acted that way to Tam or Zo simply because they were black, people would say the same thing.

I mostly joke about the punching bit, because Stephanie one-punching people is a running gag throughout the Robin book. But yeah, her gushing over Bernard wreaks of Straight women gushing over gay guys, and you can tell it’s written by someone who has clearly never gone through that experience on either side of the equation. God, why is the writing so bad?!

[Fergus]

@SomeRandomSmartA55

I don't care what bias might dwell in your heart but please if we are going to continue this discussion then at least lets keep it honest and respectful.

_ Don't use the term feral child to refer to a brown kid. That's just derogatory. Damian is conditioned killer and he was raised in a cult but he was never a feral child. Do you even know what that term means?
Damian has never been a feral kid and was already working as a hero before he was offered the mantle of Robin but you are correct that the role of Robin was given to him to give him purpose to change his life, just like it was done with others before him.


That is what makes that panel you posted from RR so bad. Tim you know what robin is for. Tim you are supposed to be a compassionate hero and you are what 18 in that panel. Damian is 9 and Tim is aware of his background, Damian has just saved Tim from certain death days before and this is how Tim thanks him. A punch in the face for calling him a drake and being sassy. Tim you are a Drake and true heroes don't answer verbal disses with physical abuse. Tut tut hero.





Damian was offered Robin after he risked his life to save Tim Drakes life in BFTC.

- None of the Robins became robin because they'd earned the right. That's not how Robin works. Robin goes to the person who needs it the most. It's a mantle used to saves young boys in danger of ending up on a dark path. That is what Dick Grayson created it for, what it stood for until it was re purposed for a lonely kid from the Burbs.

- Dick said that Damian has earned it now. he has earned the right to keep/stay as Robin. In your biased mind you might not believe that but I would say that a kid who was prepared to give his live for the safety of the world more than twice before the age of 10 has more than earned the right to remain Robin.


More Important than that, I would say that what you and I think mean F&6k all since all that matters is the POV of the person whose legacy they are honouring and what canon say. So



- Those panels you show of Tim grieving mean nothing and change nothing. Doesn't mean that the terms and conditions of the agreement changed. Show the panel where they changed. regardless Dick Grayson the one who created the mantle Took it from him and passed it to someone new.

Do you not understand the concept of ownership? Robin belongs to Dick Grayson. He is free to do with it as he pleases. What ever is going with Tim is irrelevant. All that matters is that The mantle was passed and dick asked Tim to move on. Something he was unable to do so 4 years later Dick is again telling him to get the heck on and leave the position for the child that is now rightfully Robin. That is why Tim is out here on a marina without Steph.

His folks dying doesn't negate that.

We don't know what's canon for Tim since he was deaged. As of Rebirth established that events of RR never happened. Now everything is canon but also not. Tim is still deaged and has only been with the family 3 years. We don't know what is canon for him.

The thought process when creating Tim doesn't matter since characters evolve as the world around them do. They adapt.

Dick Grayson was created to grow into Nightwing or to start Teen Teams but here we are
Superman was created to leap tall buildings not fly
Jason Todd wasn't created to die and come back to become the red hood. he was created to be Robin and nothing else. Yet here we are
Damian wayne was created to be a temp character in a 2 arc story and yet here we are.

Marv himself will tell you that characters evolve and grow beyond their original design purpose and that's a good thing.

So far I've only seen 1 non Tim fan defending this title and that's because that poster is LGBTQ Every other person defending this book is a hard core Tim Fan.

Offering an opinion on a panel or calling out the lies and the nonsense isn't defending the book. It's me getting irritated at how petty and entitled some fans are.

This is an arc that needs to be done with tim. It's not redundant and it's not moot since 15 years after RR Tim is still running around as the other Robin. He's regressed as a character. The memes about his identity is enough proof that the character has become synonymous with inability to grow and graduate from Robin. Trying and failing over and over. That's why this arc is important.

He needs to move on or for there to be an in story reason why he is and has for the past few years disregarding the wishes of the inventor of the R.

Because those panel of Dick passing his mantle to Damian, telling tim that Damian has earned Robin and to move on are canon. There has to be a canon explanation for why Tim who claims to respect Robin so much would do is regard Robin's wishes so blatantly.

There needs to be an in story explanation for why Tim is still Robin when it officially doesn't and hasn't belonged to him for years.

You keep saying what Tim wants etc. Forgetting that Robin was taken away from Tim. When it comes to robin my friend what Tim wants doesn't matter any more than what Jason and Steph want.

[Fergus]

2/2



No it doesn't because there was no set up at all, we just jumped right in the middle of the story without any buildup. Rebirth & Bendis YJ had Tim & Steph at an all time high of their relationship, Tynion's Detective literally ended with them driving off to the sunset together. Bendis YJ had several instances of them being mad in love, then poof, he dumped her off panel and started dating someone else. Why? Still waiting. If they wanted them to break up doing it off-panel was a terrible decision. And it makes zero sense pairing him with Bernard of all people. Think about it, Tim and Steph were planning their lives together in Rebirith, Tim struggling between his duties with the Gotham Knights, and his want to go to college at one of the most prestine unversities anyone could get into. Steph wanted to apply too, because he came back from "the dead," then later on they ran off together for Young Justice, then after that they just suddenly break up because Tim wanted to date Bernard?! How does that make sense?

Bernard was a character who barely left an impact on Tim's life. He was just a friend he made when he went to a new school, his sole purpose was to establish the Darla likes Tim plotline, who was all about conspiracies, pinned after Dana, and in his last appearance before Urban Legends he sold Tim out to a sorta supervillain, and he started a rumor about Stephanie being Tim's imaginary girlfriend which led to Darla kissing Tim, which led to Steph putting on a Robin costume. Stephanie Brown is a girl he helped through a teenage pregnancy, constantly fought alongside her, saved each other's lives on several occasions, shared a book with, she felt comfortable telling Tim about her sexual assault, in his dying breath said that being with her was the time of his life and helped him realize the kind of man he wants to be.

If they want Tim and Steph to be separated, then give us a reason that makes sense, like oh I don't know, Tim going to college and the long-distance relationship causes issues and leads Tim to explore his sexuality. Some of the ideas in this book are sound, the execution is dogshit tho.



Haven't been on that thread yet.

Really It was? Tellme what life were they setting up for? What exactly were those plans?

Tim got an offered to college, decided to go look for his old team, changed his name to Robin, then changed it to Drake then once he heard Damian had quit he went back to robin without consent, then he settled on Red Robin who is Robin when the official Robin is out of town[his own words]

How is all this not about Tim finding himself? how is any of that about Tim and Steph setting up their life?

Steph's plans were to tag along whatever Tim ends up doing right? That's her life for the future? Whatever Tim wants. college or globe trotting.

tim has been having an identity crisis Steph just tagged along. Now Rim has a new love she can't but Tim is still having his Identity crisis even after he broke up with Steph as we saw in UL #10 is this not the case?

They gave us the most rational and sensible reason for their separation, They broke up.

If you were tim attempting to find your place away form the bats while navigating a brand new relationship would you take your recent ex Steph with you? I'm asking you the same question i asked the other poster.

You are in luck, The thread was recently bumped so it's now on the 1st page of the batman thread.

[dietrich]

1/2


Why is it that the people who are not the biggest Tim fans are the ones defending this book the most? It's a weird trend I noticed.

Who are these people? Went through the threads and your statement simply isn't true.

Everyone on this thread, the thread of issue 2 and the online reviewers who have defended this title have all been huge Tim Fans. They even say so.

now I've argued with you the most on this thread and this is my review of the book

Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
The art is awful but the story itself is okay.

Not as bad as some are making it out honestly. It just didn't feel like I was reading Tim but that could change as she finds her voice for the character.

The artistic choice of making the boys more feminine is baffling and adds to Tim coming across like a different character.

@fergus there's a difference between defending a book and saying I'm hoping an Lgbtq lead book to be successful.

Doesn't mean i overlooked the flaws or that i wasn't critical.