Tim Drake: Robin #1 Preview

[SomeRandomSmartA55]

One of the worst panels I've ever read..........

Apparently his justification is that Steph was everything he ever wanted and more (looks like that was a lie) but he realized it wasn't due to her gender. So basically because he found out he was bi. Which is weak and lazy and ties into the whole he needs to be with a man to validate and truly be bi........

That's not his justification, that is Fitzmartin's lazy excuse for her lazy writing

[Restingvoice]

I'm behind on comics, due to ongoing issues with Comixology. Can I ask how he justified dumping Steph? I seen a few panels of the aftermath, notably the weird one where Steph said meeting her exes new boyfriend was the best day of her life.

He apologized, he said he didn't mean to just leave her cold, it's just that it's been a lot, finding out that he has a whole other side of him that they both don't know, and he didn't know how to tell her.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

He apologized, he said he didn't mean to just leave her cold, it's just that it's been a lot, finding out that he has a whole other side of him that they both don't know, and he didn't know how to tell her.

Wonder why that is as he stayed by her when was 15 and pregnant with the child of another man, and she stood by him and believed in him when he was in a position to turn into an evil fascist version of himself via having immense power at his fingertips, when she saw and witnesseded said evil fascist version and future to the point where she could identify the signs of him turning so.............

Also I guess he trusted her enough that she wouldn't react badly to meeting his new partner without warning........

[Tendrin]

Oh god I forgot about the Pregnant Spoiler storyline. *groan*

[NOCTPHOENIX]

That's not his justification, that is Fitzmartin's lazy excuse for her lazy writing

Basically yeah. She couldn't come up with a reason so she just brushes it under the rug. In UL she tried to go with the whole he was dating Steph to hold on to an idealized version of himself but that downplays his genuine interest in women as he claimed he still loved her and ignores a lot of their history when he stood by her despite rough times......

[Robanker]

Wonder why that is as he stayed by her when was 15 and pregnant with the child of another man, and she stood by him and believed in him when he was in a position to turn into an evil fascist version of himself via having immense power at his fingertips, when she saw and witnesseded said evil fascist version and future to the point where she could identify the signs of him turning so.............

Also I guess he trusted her enough that she wouldn't react badly to meeting his new partner without warning........

It's because that's inconvenient for the story being told.

[OOPS]

He apologized, he said he didn't mean to just leave her cold, it's just that it's been a lot, finding out that he has a whole other side of him that they both don't know, and he didn't know how to tell her.

All of those stories though allowed both characters to have agency and to experience a range of emotion. Here Steph, the female, character was denied both. Bi, gay, straight humans, all well written human characters, feel hurt, betrayal, anger, sadness, rejection, dejection etc when a relationship ends. Steph, again the female character, was ONLY allowed to "feel" happy happy happy when the male charcter made a decision to reject her. On a characterization level, that is terrible writing, on a meta level (where Fitzmartin like to talk down to her "audience"-we'll see how big the audience is), it says women should sublimated their needs to men or, and I suspect this was the actual message, Steph (a voice for "old" Tim fans) has no justification to feel anything but happy happy happy for Tim's new direction.

I think the reason the "apology" and whatever "reasons" the writer gave to Tim, humans don't get over rejection and hurt that easily. Look at the very long term emotions characterized for other relationships even within the DCU. Dick/Starfire/Babs still holds an element of tension how many years later? But here it's just the bestest day everest.

[Konja7]

All of those stories though allowed both characters to have agency and to experience a range of emotion. Here Steph, the female, character was denied both. Bi, gay, straight humans, all well written human characters, feel hurt, betrayal, anger, sadness, rejection, dejection etc when a relationship ends. Steph, again the female character, was ONLY allowed to "feel" happy happy happy when the male charcter made a decision to reject her. On a characterization level, that is terrible writing, on a meta level (where Fitzmartin like to talk down to her "audience"-we'll see how big the audience is), it says women should sublimated their needs to men or, and I suspect this was the actual message, Steph (a voice for "old" Tim fans) has no justification to feel anything but happy happy happy for Tim's new direction.

I think the reason the "apology" and whatever "reasons" the writer gave to Tim, humans don't get over rejection and hurt that easily. Look at the very long term emotions characterized for other relationships even within the DCU. Dick/Starfire/Babs still holds an element of tension how many years later? But here it's just the bestest day everest.

I don't think Stephanie was the voice of "old" Tim fans in that story. I mean, Fitzmartin isn't so subtle.

When Fitzmartin wants to criticize "old" Tim fans is too obvious. For example: Imaginary Batman in Dark Crisis Young Justice.


The reason why Stephanie was only allowed to feel "happy" is because she would be criticized as homophobic for many Tim x Bernard fans if she didn't feel "happy".

It isn't good writing, but I think Fitzmartin was trying to put Stephanie in a positive light.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

I don't think Stephanie was the voice of "old" Tim fans in that story. I mean, Fitzmartin isn't so subtle.

When Fitzmartin wants to criticize "old" Tim fans is too obvious. For example: Imaginary Batman in Dark Crisis Young Justice.


The reason why Stephanie was only allowed to feel "happy" is because she would be criticized as homophobic for many Tim x Bernard fans if she didn't feel "happy".

It isn't good writing, but I think Fitzmartin was trying to put Stephanie in a positive light.

Nah, she was using Stephanie as a prop to shill Bernard. A simple "nice to meet you" would have been enough to make her look positive but the reaction given to Stephanie was over the top and beyond that. Using Stephanie, his long term love interest as a fangirl over Bernard the new one was using her to push him and prop him up. It's like how after One More Day Mary Jane became an instant Carlie and Peter shipper instead of just accepting Peter might have another relationship or be cool. The old love interest was used to shill the new one.

[Triniking1234]

The art is so bad I couldn't tell the difference between the old lady with the flier and Tim.

F*ck this.

Is that armpit hair in the one variant cover?

Yes.

[dietrich]

It certainly gives off that vibe! I mean I always felt unwelcome under certain LGBT circles, cuz Im a bi guy, we're kinda the black sheep of the "community." The "settled" line, just infuriates me.

I take issue with Tim's sexuality being the reason for his and Steph's break up. We should have had them break up on panel and for a reason other than his sexuality. Then he can start exploring. That phase is so important, and it is damn interesting. But they way they did it, and the character they paired him up with, is just UGH.

I always ALWAYS wanted to see a story where a guy has to admit to a girl he likes that he is bi. I have come across so many bi guys who mention they are bi to girls they like and the usual reaction is "...Oh" Some are into it, and some lose interest. Compare that to a bi girl who tells a guy she's bi, and we all know where HIS mind is going. Being bi has so much more nuance than just dating around. There is so much potential here, and it's frustrating (to put it nicely) of how this is being butchered

I know a lot of Bi pals who don't feel accepted by the community. They are often written off as greedy, slutty or just attention seekers who are experimenting.

it's quite sad that a large part of the community discriminates/denies a sizable part of their own.

Indeed it seems most people struggle with the concept of being to man and woman sincerely and equally.
Those who have a preference [male or female] don't understand since they have no frame of reference. That is understandable but so many don't even try to understand or to be respectful.

I've found it worrying so many readers and supposed allies are already fearful about Tim/Jon possibly dating a woman in the future.

I also noticed that the writer [Megan] is indeed writing Tim as Gay not Bi. She's writing him like he's into guys. He's not. He is into both.

That could be interpreted as phobic or it could be because she thinks fans don't understand what bi sexual means.

It'd be great to have a bi male character who truly reflected what it means to be bi. Dating both men and women. Not just another gay male character.

We all talk about representation but while we have plenty of same sex [exclusive] and opposite sex relationships we are lacking character who actually truly are portrayed to swing both ways. Even women like Wonder Woman and Catwoman who are supposed to be Bi aren't written as such.

Harley comes close since she has iconic male and female lovers.

I would have liked to see the same with Tim and Jon. They had a choice to do that with Tim but by rejecting his iconic female love interest as 'not himself' in favour of Benard they are making it harder for him to have iconic established lovers. One male, one female.

They had a really good thing with Tim having such a long and established relationship with Steph already in place. All they had to do was embrace and keep all that history positive while developing his new one.

Perhaps if we had more truly bisexual relationships in our media so many wouldn't struggle with the concept of a person being bisexual.

As a Bi male, how do you feel about Tim's writing of late?

[witchboy]

I know a lot of Bi pals who don't feel accepted by the community. They are often written off as greedy, slutty or just attention seekers who are experimenting.

it's quite sad that a large part of the community discriminates/denies a sizable part of their own.

Indeed it seems most people struggle with the concept of being to man and woman sincerely and equally.
Those who have a preference [male or female] don't understand since they have no frame of reference. That is understandable but so many don't even try to understand or to be respectful.

I've found it worrying so many readers and supposed allies are already fearful about Tim/Jon possibly dating a woman in the future.

I also noticed that the writer [Megan] is indeed writing Tim as Gay not Bi. She's writing him like he's into guys. He's not. He is into both.

That could be interpreted as phobic or it could be because she thinks fans don't understand what bi sexual means.

It'd be great to have a bi male character who truly reflected what it means to be bi. Dating both men and women. Not just another gay male character.

We all talk about representation but while we have plenty of same sex [exclusive] and opposite sex relationships we are lacking character who actually truly are portrayed to swing both ways. Even women like Wonder Woman and Catwoman who are supposed to be Bi aren't written as such.

Harley comes close since she has iconic male and female lovers.

I would have liked to see the same with Tim and Jon. They had a choice to do that with Tim but by rejecting his iconic female love interest as 'not himself' in favour of Benard they are making it harder for him to have iconic established lovers. One male, one female.

They had a really good thing with Tim having such a long and established relationship with Steph already in place. All they had to do was embrace and keep all that history positive while developing his new one.

Perhaps if we had more truly bisexual relationships in our media so many wouldn't struggle with the concept of a person being bisexual.

As a Bi male, how do you feel about Tim's writing of late?

Bi men dating women is of course valid.
The problem with Tim or Jon dating a girl right now is that there’s a serious lack of malexmale relationships in comics but many many manxwoman relationships.
I expect people would accept Jon or Tim with a girlfriend if/when we get more prominent manxman relationships.
How many are there that get any kind of page time outside of the very new Tim/Bernard and Jon/Jay?
Midnighter and Apollo are all that come to mind and they’re just appearing as supporting characters.
We do have bi characters like Catwoman, Wonder Woman and Constantine who do have iconic opposite sex love interests.

[Aahz]

I expect people would accept Jon or Tim with a girlfriend if/when we get more prominent manxman relationships.

Since the market currently is not really supporting anything outside of the big six and the Batfamily, that's not going to happen without them bending or replacing an other allready prominent character.

And unless there is a lot of readers coming in to support Tim's book, just because he is LGBT or because they are buying everything Tim Drake, I don't think Tim x Bernard are going to get much page space on the long run.

Because with this writer and this art can't really see this book succeeding based on quality.

[witchboy]

Since the market currently is not really supporting anything outside of the big six and the Batfamily, that's not going to happen without them bending or replacing an other allready prominent character.

And unless there is a lot of readers coming in to support Tim's book, just because he is LGBT or because they are buying everything Tim Drake, I don't think Tim x Bernard are going to get much page space on the long run.

Because with this writer and this art can't really see this book succeeding based on quality.

I hope DC can see if this book fails it’s because of the art and not Tim and LGBT characters, and give him another series with a different creative team.

[ZuLuLu]

Bi men dating women is of course valid.
The problem with Tim or Jon dating a girl right now is that there’s a serious lack of malexmale relationships in comics but many many manxwoman relationships.
I expect people would accept Jon or Tim with a girlfriend if/when we get more prominent manxman relationships.
How many are there that get any kind of page time outside of the very new Tim/Bernard and Jon/Jay?
Midnighter and Apollo are all that come to mind and they’re just appearing as supporting characters.
We do have bi characters like Catwoman, Wonder Woman and Constantine who do have iconic opposite sex love interests.

Exactly, most of the popular bi characters are in opposite-sex relationships and no one really has a problem with that, what people used to have a problem with is that these characters were bi in name only and it was never shown on the page, that has now changed.

However problem with Jon and Tim is that as soon as they came out as bi and before there was any time to develop their same-sex relationship there was a push from some to have in with the opposite sex.