Was Spiderman defeating Firelord controversial?

[Gaastra]

Hmm... never heard about that one. I know Spiderman punched Grey Hulk into orbit when he had the Captain Universe powers.

Relooking you are right. I'm mixing the two stories together. Spider-man Annuel 3 i think he does not knock hulk out. He has hulk hit a gamma wall turning him back to banner. He could punch out banner but won't and banner turns back to hulk and spider-man tells him he does not want to fight and hulk is fine with it and walks off. The story spidey figures out fast hulk is too powerful.

Ironic as the two would become friends years later in marvel team up.

The cosmic spidey hitting hulk into orbit scene i mixed up with that story.

[Lukmendes]

It was a bit more balanced. Out of the original Sinister Six, Mysterio and Kraven (well, at least pre-mystical herb consumption) didn't have any powers, and Doc Ock and Vulture are essentially regular guys with tech.

Kraven always had powers, since his introduction:



(ASM#15)

But fair enough about the other three lol.

Maybe it's just that most of these guys needed revamps at one point or another, and those who didn't get one in time are pretty much stuck as ineffectual losers.

Ironically enough, despite Vulture being what should be considered Spidey's weakest villain (Well, him or Tinkerer), as far as I've seen, he gets a decent amount of respect, he never becomes too dangerous, but I'm not sure how many times he was actually a joke, if he was one at all.

Superior Foes also buried any chance for Shocker to be taken seriously.

Didn't that story have the villains being really afraid of Punisher? I can understand some cases, but Shocker shouldn't really care unless he was considering a surprise attack lol.

But sheesh, poor Shocker...

[Minerboh]

Spider-Man is quite powerful. He can go toe to toe with many powerhouses provided he is 100% into it.
He puts many blockers and restrains himself often and usually there's something wrong with him when he fights. It's either going to be a flu, a common cold, an ulcer, a factor at play that reduces his powers or, as it usually happens, his mind is preoccupied with something in the likes of Aunt May's well being or something more personal and intimate.
Otherwise, you better not mess with him.

[exile001]

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but let's not forget the power scaling that has taken hold over the last 40 years.

Sure, Firelord was supposed to be incredibly powerful but back then it was more like, say, 20x human than Silver Age Superman level.

[wleakr]

It's specially dumb for me when characters have defined enough powers to be above or below the other, the story made it clear Firelord is ridiculously above Spidey, and Spidey beating up Firelord so casually once he decided to actually try to punch makes every time Spidey gets fucked by Venom look ridiculous since for some reason he struggles with some guy in a goop costume, but a fucking herald of Galactus was much easier to take down.

The guy in a goop costume negates his biggest advantage over an opponent. The struggle makes sense.

[Lukmendes]

Spider-Man is quite powerful. He can go toe to toe with many powerhouses provided he is 100% into it.
He puts many blockers and restrains himself often and usually there's something wrong with him when he fights. It's either going to be a flu, a common cold, an ulcer, a factor at play that reduces his powers or, as it usually happens, his mind is preoccupied with something in the likes of Aunt May's well being or something more personal and intimate.
Otherwise, you better not mess with him.

No one is denying he's strong, it's just that being strong and being on the level of one of Galactus' heralds are two very different things, it's like comparing a pistol with a tank lol.

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but let's not forget the power scaling that has taken hold over the last 40 years.

Sure, Firelord was supposed to be incredibly powerful but back then it was more like, say, 20x human than Silver Age Superman level.

I don't see a human who's 20x tougher than a regular human shrugging off a gas station's explosion like it's nothing lol.

He wasn't anywhere near Silver Age Superman, but honestly, the ridiculous feats that guy had put him above even the likes of Odin, like, he once sneezed and destroyed a dead galaxy, so yeah...

The guy in a goop costume negates his biggest advantage over an opponent. The struggle makes sense.

So what? He defeated Firelord just by hitting him really hard, just repeat that against the guy in the goop costume, instead of getting overpowered by him like it happens here and there.

[wleakr]

So what? He defeated Firelord just by hitting him really hard, just repeat that against the guy in the goop costume, instead of getting overpowered by him like it happens here and there.

That is not all he is doing. He is also dodging Firelord and staying out of his reach (which is noted in the panel box on the page) using his spider sense and reflexes. He basically pulled a Rocky vs Mr. T (Clubber Lang) move; he tired out his opponent. Firelords continued fighting and chasing is what set him up for the "hitting hard" ending.

[Lukmendes]

That is not all he is doing. He is also dodging Firelord and staying out of his reach (which is noted in the panel box on the page) using his spider sense and reflexes. He basically pulled a Rocky vs Mr. T (Clubber Lang) move; he tired out his opponent. Firelords continued fighting and chasing is what set him up for the "hitting hard" ending.

I mean what the panels show have Spidey attacking while Firelord doesn't even try to attack, specially the ones where he's talking, where he's attacking for so long he doesn't even realize Firelord is unconscious, so Spidey was basically mashing anyways lol.

Spidey also didn't tire out Firelord at all, the story notes he isn't hurt from anything else Spidey threw at him, and if anything, Spidey himself thinks he needs to rest:



(ASM#270).

[Minerboh]

No one is denying he's strong, it's just that being strong and being on the level of one of Galactus' heralds are two very different things, it's like comparing a pistol with a tank lol.



I don't see a human who's 20x tougher than a regular human shrugging off a gas station's explosion like it's nothing lol.

He wasn't anywhere near Silver Age Superman, but honestly, the ridiculous feats that guy had put him above even the likes of Odin, like, he once sneezed and destroyed a dead galaxy, so yeah...



So what? He defeated Firelord just by hitting him really hard, just repeat that against the guy in the goop costume, instead of getting overpowered by him like it happens here and there.

Marvel, not to mention, everybody in the fandom, have an issue depicting power levels. On that regard, it always bothered me Batman defeating Superman almost every single time or Kingpin giving a hard time to Spidey even with the factors at play I mentioned earlier.

[krazijoe]

What does strength have to do with being able to take a punch?

[HypnoHustler]

What does strength have to do with being able to take a punch?

Good point. Maybe Firelord has a glass jaw.

[Minerboh]

What does strength have to do with being able to take a punch?

Just because Firelord can generate major amounts of power doesn't mean that he can't feel pain.

[vhm74]

Not so much considering that at some point there was a discussion about Spidey being around the 25 ton strengh tier. For me controversial is when he's nerfed so much that he struggles to beat regular guys

[PanicPixieDreamGirl]

Every dang time I scroll past this thread I read it as, "Was Spider-Man dating Firelord controversial".

[Lukmendes]

What does strength have to do with being able to take a punch?

Good point. Maybe Firelord has a glass jaw.

Considering he can take a punch from people way above Spidey like Thor and Hercules, no lol.

Not so much considering that at some point there was a discussion about Spidey being around the 25 ton strengh tier. For me controversial is when he's nerfed so much that he struggles to beat regular guys

The strength nonsense never made much sense, Spidey has casually shown to lift stuff that's way heavier than 10 tons, like a tank.

And hell, She-Hulk was originally supposed to be at 50 tons, that means she wouldn't be capable to lift a tank, and nobody would actually believe she's that weak.

Someone like Hulk is also way, way above 100 tons too.

So yeah, Spidey is sometimes is shown to be stronger than 10 tons, but so has everyone else, he's not special in that regard, and if anything, realizing that everyone is above the nonsense scaling Marvel tried to make only widens the gap even further lol.

Every dang time I scroll past this thread I read it as, "Was Spider-Man dating Firelord controversial".

Hey, this ain't a shipping thread .