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  1. #61
    Astonishing Member CoCoBandz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loke13 View Post
    Eh it depends Hickman pulled off a fantastic one at the end of his Avengers/New Avengers run. Though he actually spent the time to create believable tension between the heroes.
    Steve and Tony's fight in TRO was more idiotic than the Schism.

    There's an entire planet in the process of crashing into ours with all kinds of genocide machines falling out of the sky via a twisted Reed Richards and Tony Stark, but lets fight each other to the death instead. Huh?

    Although I guess it's not an Avengers story without some kind of untimely infighting..
    Last edited by CoCoBandz; 10-02-2022 at 02:57 PM.
    The Krakoans are EEEvil!

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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subliminally View Post
    I concede that I wasn't following the story down to the smallest detail, but from what I understand that's what I was talking about.
    I also paid very little to that arc as well. I tend to put parentless mutants like the Xeno that pop up out of nowhere on the back-burner until they do something worth grabbing a 5th and a Spliff to lean back and carefully get into them.

  3. #63
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    The amount of bending over backwards to try and claim this isn’t a retcon is ridiculous. So Magneto gave the entire spiel about humans and their religions and symbolism. Magneto is about as much a god as my Uncle David is, as much as my uncle might produce enough pure spit at certain political parties a day to power the western seaboard. Which would probably make him equal to Magneto.

    It could be a retcon. It could not be. We have no idea because the person who wrote the original scene didn’t write this one.

    I’m still just trying to figure out which editor has the balls to approve Hickman having Magneto say it at Jerusalem.

  4. #64
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    Ewing’s either retconning/moving the goal posts because of the general smoothing out of the edges of the deliberately questionable takes Hickman took to pique interest, or it’s his frankly irritating at this point ‘every marvel character I write is really an anti-authority/pro people power; unlike those slimy elitist MCU guys who aren’t really Marvel characters’

    IE Big talk for the guy who chickened out of committing to Stan being Marvel Satan

    Or, third option: it’s a less aggravating version of Howard’s “the superior species can’t be dodgy” seeing as Brand’s villainy is apparently rooted in her refusing to forsake her alien half for the blessed X-gene
    Last edited by king of hybrids; 10-03-2022 at 09:14 AM.

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Yes I never liked that scene of Magneto with the ambassadors on Jerusalem, first off because it´s in very poor taste that reflects badly on a writer like Hickman to bring real locations to disregard religious beliefs using a Jewish character, who is by canon an holocaust survivor, who actually lived on Israel for a while and grew up with the Jewish faith even if later he became an agnostic. That said, even when I read it for the first time, I thought he was being sacastic in a very crass way, saying to them that there´s a new sheriff in town, we are not told what is the religion of each ambassador or if they are agnostic but I am very sure they are not Jewish. The only Jewish there was Magneto ironically.

    I get the idea Hickman was going for a "new culture", "new language","new names", "new gods" etc for the "mutants" but he really dropped the ball by forcing the characters who had deeply held beliefs or who grew up in a certain cultural group that is a big part of themselves, not just part of the "human world" succedenly leaving everything behind, it didn´t made sense. So my guess is that Ewing is just adding more context to the story, taking in consideration what Hickman obviously missed the first time around, which is Magneto´s background. There´s a reason why he has taken again "Max" as his main name, that´s bassically his birth namde, his "human" name.





    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 10-03-2022 at 02:43 PM.
    "To the X-men then, who don´t die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  6. #66
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    [IMG] [/IMG]

    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 10-03-2022 at 02:41 PM.
    "To the X-men then, who don´t die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  7. #67
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    "We've never conquered a people, stolen their land, or made slaves of the vanquished."

    Is that actually true though...?

  8. #68
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Well, all of Magneto´s base of operations which served as refuge for mutants were on space, Asteroid M, Avalon, you could count Genosha but one of the reasons he was made leader of that nation was because it would assure the mutates who were made slaves on Genosha, that it was going to be different this time. It wasn´t because of Cassandra Nova but that´s another story. Utopia was just Asteroid M in San Francisco, other refuges had been done in Magik´s limbo during the whole fight with the Inhumans and the world air became too toxic to mutants.

    So no they have not actually taken land that they didn´t already have for one reason or another.
    "To the X-men then, who don´t die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  9. #69
    Extraordinary Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    "We've never conquered a people, stolen their land, or made slaves of the vanquished."

    Is that actually true though...?
    Depends- mutants as a people, or a mutant administration of a country didn't. But Apocalypse certainly did a lot of this. Magneto himself tried in the past to conquer a country and was defeated by the X-Men.

  10. #70
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Depends- mutants as a people, or a mutant administration of a country didn't. But Apocalypse certainly did a lot of this. Magneto himself tried in the past to conquer a country and was defeated by the X-Men.
    I remember Apocalypse´s secret groups and sects but I don´t remember him actually taking over a country excelt in AoA, he was quite secretive most of the time, sending his 4 horsemen, Magneto did attack Santo Marco in the silver age and was stopped by the X-men.

    But if we are talking about mutants as a group, no, most of them have keep to themselves of joined different groups of mutants.
    "To the X-men then, who don´t die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  11. #71
    Extraordinary Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    I remember Apocalypse´s secret groups and sects but I don´t remember him actually taking over a country excelt in AoA, he was quite secretive most of the time, sending his 4 horsemen, Magneto did attack Santo Marco in the silver age and was stopped by the X-men.

    But if we are talking about mutants as a group, no, most of them have keep to themselves of joined different groups of mutants.
    Apocalypse literally caused the Bronze Age collapse, so he certainly invaded countries and enslaved people.

  12. #72
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Apocalypse literally caused the Bronze Age collapse, so he certainly invaded countries and enslaved people.
    I was just considering his comic book appareances, I took his "Bronze Age" Collapse comment as mostly flexing because that´s a very vague expression, and slaving and conquering was unfortunately a quite common practice in the bronze age by many different groups. Apocalypse took a lot of his time to learn celestial tecnology and before that he used to be a slave of one of Kang´s old personas and it´s completely possible and expected he slaved people and conquered many places in his many years of existence, but if that´s the case, writers probably should do better to explore that, than to give an off handed comment there, but I won´t fight you there.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 10-03-2022 at 03:51 PM.
    "To the X-men then, who don´t die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  13. #73
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Hickman absolutely knew what he was doing and saying on that page.
    Some may not like it...for reasons.
    And most clearly didn't understand it...for reasons

    But as someone who is very familiar with his writing elsewhere, and from someone who definitely knows the X-lore, that proclamation, then and there, was absolutely intentional. And I would even go so far as to say...yes, part of that intent was indeed to piss off some people (readers and dignitaries, alike) because it's quite clear that from HoX/PoX up to that point...the mutants have no more fucks to give about what humanity says, thinks or believes. And who better to deliver that message than Maggie himself.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  14. #74
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Hickman absolutely knew what he was doing and saying on that page.
    Some may not like it...for reasons.
    And most clearly didn't understand it...for reasons

    But as someone who is very familiar with his writing elsewhere, and from someone who definitely knows the X-lore, that proclamation, then and there, was absolutely intentional. And I would even go so far as to say...yes, part of that intent was indeed to piss off some people (readers and dignitaries, alike) because it's quite clear that from HoX/PoX up to that point...the mutants have no more fucks to give about what humanity says, thinks or believes. And who better to deliver that message than Maggie himself.
    What did Hickman mean? I have some ideas and didn´t like some of his takes but it´s nice to see somebody else pov.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 10-03-2022 at 06:20 PM.
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    What did Hickman mean? I have some ideas and didn´t like some of his takes but it´s nice to see somebody else pov.
    **** Flatscans, if I had to guess.

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