Original Sin #8 Spoilers

[numberthirty]

Yeah, I was disappointed not to find out why Thor became unworthy. What did Fury whisper to him? It was an alright ending

Aaron mentioned in an interview after issue 7 came out that we wouldn't find that out till later on, so I wasn't expecting it. From what he said, we won't even know in the first issue of the new Thor series.

Which is even more interesting now that I've seen the preview for the new Thor series. Very obvious possibility in that preview.

[themortalfist]

If you look where this Event sent the super heroes, (Cap finding out the Illuminati sabotaged him, Fury finding a replacement for his man on the wall, Thors unworthiness portended, the Watcher not being around to warn people anymore, and the Orb with a Watchers eye in his chest running around witnessing the result of secrets revealed), as Dr Strange said to Panther, everybody is going to be much more suspicious of everyone in the MU now that those secrets are out there. For starters the Illuminati are anticipating a visit by the Avengers seeing as how directly after OS#8, Cap went hunting down Tony Stark and went on a time travel adventure to meet Iron Lad.

The effect of OS on the MU is to take out the comforting knowledge that your friends are who they say they are, if you can't trust Fury to be just a retired DoS. The Avengers are now split down the middle between Cap and Iron Man; the FF are split apart because of some secret information given to the government (Steve Rogers?); Spiderman has some crazy new spider girlfriend that is attracting the wrong kind of attention (Morlun).

The world is not as friendly anymore as it was in All New Marvel NOW. Avengers NOW is a much less hospitable environment to be in.

I'm skeptical why we needed an "event" that's this dull and utterly devoid of true suspense to accomplish the Avengers NOW roadmap as you accurately point out. New Cap, New Thor, Superior Stark, Extremis Hulk (and not to mention all those Spider-y things going on) -- I think all of these plotlines could've easily been accomplished without OS. Hickman was clearly moving in this direction already on Avengers/New Avengers. Remender has been laying out Axis since, when, Uncanny X-Force? There are far better plots in other books that could've given us the warped, slightly sinister Avengers NOW world you describe.

And as an aside, I wish Marvel would stop ruining the ending of their events by revealing months in advance what's going to happen, e.g., Bucky as Man on the Wall. (See also: obviously wasted cliffhanger in this week's Captain America.)

[VJ.]

Ok, I could buy just about everything, but the Watcher wanting to commit suicide by cop? WHY?!?!?!? He couldn't face living life as a one eyed Watcher!?!?! That just sounds so stupid!

Suicide by cop. I believe it's pretty self explanatory though, Uatu says, "it's time for someone else to watch." Kid is done and wants to retire.

What I cannot reconcile here is the idea that the Watcher picked today to be so tired that he had to commit suicide to relieve him of the task as the Watcher. Why now? He has been doing this for Millennia, and he picks now to get tired? I don't buy it.

Did any of you guys read #0? The Watcher has been looking for millennia to find a single reality where his father's actions were the right ones - There's not one in the entire multi-verse. Nova notices this within a few panels - Utatu was a very depressed being. The fact that he basically wanted to die so took the opportunity to essentially kill himself shouldn't be all that surprising.

[TakoM]

Did any of you guys read #0? The Watcher has been looking for millennia to find a single reality where his father's actions were the right ones - There's not one in the entire multi-verse. Nova notices this within a few panels - Utatu was a very depressed being. The fact that he basically wanted to die so took the opportunity to essentially kill himself shouldn't be all that surprising.

I think his joy came from the heroes which follow their convictions and solve impossible challenges. They became more less and less he also said to Henry McCoy that he despise him because what he has done (I think he called him hypocrite) . Nova and the Future Foundation were fresh and have no taint on them he liked those kids.

Nick Fury was properly on of the biggest so called hypocrites he did know that Nick is on the "we(I) vs them(the others)" trip was. He gave him the chance to overcome his inner hypocrite or be dammed with him. At the end he revealed a lot of information to the world by........ doing nothing.

In some way in this story Utatu is a hero

But I found the whole story ridiculous on every end, alone the amount of monsters or invading aliens xD

Somehow the whole story reminds me of https://twitter.com/Gali_girl Galactus daughter and how she eats every invading alien on earth.

[themortalfist]

Did any of you guys read #0? The Watcher has been looking for millennia to find a single reality where his father's actions were the right ones - There's not one in the entire multi-verse. Nova notices this within a few panels - Utatu was a very depressed being. The fact that he basically wanted to die so took the opportunity to essentially kill himself shouldn't be all that surprising.

And if Waid wrote the rest of this series, he likely would've found a way for poor Uatu to pull himself out of it (see: Daredevil).

[NightMage]

Wow. This sounds like wasted potential: the comic

This whole event...what were they thinking?

Funny you should have GL as your avatar, because this sounds to me like a riff on Hal Jordan's storyline in the old DCU.

GL goes insane, becomes Parallax. Parallax sees threat to Earth because the sun goes cold, reignites sun and dies, becomes The Spectre.

Except with Fury the whole "bad guy" plot was that he really wasn't bad at all but doing things no hero would even go for. Now he's the new Watcher.

[NightMage]

I wonder if Uatu wanted to die because he knew about the Incursions and believed there was no hope?



Anyway, it seems like the writers and/or editors of Marvel's current storylines have had little or no communication in terms of lining things up:

-Over in "Avengers," the current arc of which took place between the beginning and end of "Original Sin," Steve is still young and has just vowed to bring down the Illuminati
-In this book, where Steve is also still young, he has shown no such hostility toward the Illuminati (not even the guy who mindwiped him) and Thor only just lost his hammer
-In Cap's own title, he's now old and Thor still has his hammer
-In "Uncanny Avengers," Steve is also old, and he seems to have no problem being within a few feet of Iron Man

Maybe Uatu wanted to die rather than try making sense of this.

Yeah, "Original Sin" seems like Marvel's leaving bread crumbs here for both "AXIS" and "Time Runs Out". There are also questions left unanswered that will either be answered in "Thor", et. al.

[VJ.]

I think his joy came from the heroes which follow their convictions and solve impossible challenges. They became more less and less he also said to Henry McCoy that he despise him because what he has done (I think he called him hypocrite) . Nova and the Future Foundation were fresh and have no taint on them he liked those kids.

Nick Fury was properly on of the biggest so called hypocrites he did know that Nick is on the "we(I) vs them(the others)" trip was. He gave him the change to overcome his inner hypocrite or be dammed with him. At the end he revealed a lot of information to the world by........ doing nothing.

In some way in this story Utatu is a hero

I can get onboard with that idea

And if Waid wrote the rest of this series, he likely would've found a way for poor Uatu to pull himself out of it (see: Daredevil).

Very true, but the whole premise of the story was the watcher dieing\being killed and given that then suicide was a probably better choice death by random supervillain. I like him but I'm not sure waid would have even wanted write a "death of the watcher" story.

For all it's failings, it set off plots in a whole bunch of other series and unlike AoU most certainly did shake-up the status quo. I mean spinning out of this we have A Female Thor, Angela, The story of Daredevil's mother, The Fantastic four all over the place, Deadpool's daughter, Bucky with a new ongoing and a whole bunch of other changes. So on that level, it worked well as an event - the core story wasn't as good as it could have been, but it was self-contained so those who didn't like it could skip it and not miss anything - even the Hulk vs IronMan and Thor & Loki miniseries have been self-contained (both great IMO, the latter shows off Aaron's writing skills far better than the core series).

My point is that even if the execution wasn't point perfect, this was a reasonable event that actually had consequences as opposed to the dire abomination that some in this thread have painted it. My biggest complaint was that there were too many Avenger's issues sold as tie-ins, the first two were enough - why was the rest of the arc sold as a tie-in?

[Sighphi]

So how did Nick Fury killed the Watcher?
Cause unless he had the Ultimate Unwatchifier that Galactus gave him.... Nick Fury did not kill the Watcher.
Nick Fury and apparently everyone else have been running around seeing an illusion the Watcher created.

[jackolover]

I'm skeptical why we needed an "event" that's this dull and utterly devoid of true suspense to accomplish the Avengers NOW roadmap as you accurately point out. New Cap, New Thor, Superior Stark, Extremis Hulk (and not to mention all those Spider-y things going on) -- I think all of these plotlines could've easily been accomplished without OS. Hickman was clearly moving in this direction already on Avengers/New Avengers. Remender has been laying out Axis since, when, Uncanny X-Force? There are far better plots in other books that could've given us the warped, slightly sinister Avengers NOW world you describe.

And as an aside, I wish Marvel would stop ruining the ending of their events by revealing months in advance what's going to happen, e.g., Bucky as Man on the Wall. (See also: obviously wasted cliffhanger in this week's Captain America.)

Yes, Original Sin certainly wasn't as heart wrenching as Civil War, or as block buster fighting as World War Hulk. That's true. But as a reviewer pointed out, it wasn't like any other Event that Marvel put out before, because it was something new. And yes, the Avengers NOW roadmap as you described was always going to happen despite OS and it's revelations, that's true too.

The Review: We should have known better. The Original Sin “event” series was originally billed as a mystery surrounding the question of “Who Shot the Watcher?” But we should have known that detective comics are more of a DC thing (quite literally, if you think about it), and remembered that Marvel/Timely’s origins has always been in monster and horror books. In that perspective, it makes total sense that this event has been in essence a suspense and horror title. Think about it. We have giant eyeballs being held aloft and, in the final issue, acting as if they’re alive. We have repeated stabbings and blood, obsession with death and secrets, some esoteric alien beings, and, ultimately, one of those “horrible irony” twisted endings for the main character.

So from that perspective, OS was harking back to the beginnings of the Silver Age, which were deep set in the Monster Age, and by coincidence, so was Furys predecessor, McCord, in 1957. So you could say this was set in the 1957 genre era of Monster comics, and it wiped clean the remnant of what remained of Monsters from the modern Marvel Universe. It may mean that generic Monsters won't be addressed anymore and Bucky Barnes, Space Invader, will be the first of a generation that don't see monsters, just alien politics. If the New Invaders series survives, and Bucky's book augments it, then we will see a compliment to the Guardians of the Galaxy out there, with direct Earth human intervention, instead of being Aliens hiring humans, like Rich Rider and Star Lord.

It may be that Marvel is removing the WW11 characters from the Lines, as a sort of homage to those relics that survived from a bygone age, and gave them a righteous send off. (Not Steve Rogers or Bucky, because they survived to be relevant to the Modern Age, by reinventing themselves). I think Fury and Dugan couldn't reinvent themselves into anything else.

[Mantis Girl 94]

I was greatly disappointed and feel like I want my money back.

I love the original Nick Fury, but this was not the Nick I know and love.

It seems like after it is all said and done the whole mini series was just a vehicle to give Bucky more powers.... Pathetic!

[jackolover]

Did any of you guys read #0? The Watcher has been looking for millennia to find a single reality where his father's actions were the right ones - There's not one in the entire multi-verse. Nova notices this within a few panels - Utatu was a very depressed being. The fact that he basically wanted to die so took the opportunity to essentially kill himself shouldn't be all that surprising.

Okay, taking that logic that the Watcher failed to find a reality where Watchers intervention led to a positive outcome, what does that mean? It means the other Watchers were right and Uatus dad was wrong. Non-intervention Watching is the right thing to do. So, here we have a Watcher, who his whole life he has been breaking the law of the Watchers and intervening in the Earth. Ergo, Uatu coming to the conclusion intervention leads to disaster, then Uatu is the cause of the disaster that now faces the Earth? Is that what caused him to suicide? That Uatu realised the Earth has been ruined?

Now we have to come to the WHAT? What is ruined about the Earth-616? If the Watcher committed suicide, he must think everything he did to intervene on Earth was wrong and the Earth shouldn't be like this. All Uatu needed was therapy. There is nothing wrong with the Earth-616. If anything, he did the right thing by intervening. And if Marvel eventually show Uatu ruined the Earth--616, then maybe Uatu has a case to answer for.

[jackolover]

So how did Nick Fury killed the Watcher?
Cause unless he had the Ultimate Unwatchifier that Galactus gave him.... Nick Fury did not kill the Watcher.
Nick Fury and apparently everyone else have been running around seeing an illusion the Watcher created.

How do you mean? What's the Ultimate Unwatchifier? What illusion?

If you're right, and the whole of Original Sin was a dream state, that would be such a huge revelation.

[Anung_Un_Rama]

This was the worst Marvel event mini series in a long time. The entire mini was a setup for 3 new monthlies. They could have easily launched those new series w/out trasking classic characters. I expect so much more from Jason Aaron!

[emac1790]

How do you mean? What's the Ultimate Unwatchifier? What illusion?

I think he means a gunshot to the head shouldn't kill Uatu. If not, apologies to Sighphi.