Original Sin #8 Spoilers

[Ite]

Would you say this was worse than Age of Ultron?

[Zuri]

IMO this was a good ending but a bit of a letdown because the story started on such a high with all the mystery and so many unknowns.

[Thor-Ul]

We were trying to think of what possible use could Nick Fury be, when the super heroes take care of everything that comes to Earth. Then why did Fury have to kill another Living Planet? Bucky found a Dead Living Planet out in the Universe, so why did Fury kill this one and not the other one he let live? And there you have your answer. Fury gets rid of all the lethal threats and leaves the less Lethal threats for the Super Heroes. So Ego is a ponce, so Fury doesn't kill that one, but Egos evil brother, that's another matter. Same goes for all the threats the super heroes fought. They are the ponce threats that Fury let the super heroes deal with, including Galactus, and Thanos, and any number of ponce super villains who do nothing but lecture to tell everyone how good they are. The one shot killers, Fury takes those out himself.

So there must be a hierarchy of threats that has an identification matrix involved with it. Fury sifts out the real bad ones, but leaves the Dormammus and the Lokis alive, because those guys and Dr Doom will never beat anybody on Earth because they are so full of themselves, they disrespect themselves. For every Galactus, Thanos, Dormammu, Loki and Dr Doom, there is a counter part twice as bad as they are, who is dead.

If that is the case, then it makes the likes of the super heroes almost a luxury, and, makes Fury an essential element to the survival of Earth.

PS. I really liked that panel in OS #3, where Bucky looks down at that gamma bullet in the Dead Planet as Moon Knight is saying, there can't be many people who could pull this off. And this sure has to narrow down the suspects. Nick Fury and Bucky Barnes went thought WW11 together, and Bucky could recognise a fellow shooter from the style he uses. That moment is what gells it in Buckys mind.

So basically the superheroes are pussies if big bad Fury didn't killed the real menaces? Sad, but if Marvel wants to stick to that, even if that downgrade any menace from the past and most of their characters, and great villians. And bring a lot of questions: What happened the day Galactus appeared? Nick was on vacation or was not that dangerous? Maybe that was why Uatu intervened thata day. Or maybe Nick was teasting Uatu. Or maybe there was another uber galactus who was about to ... don't know, what is worse than eat the world?

True in the art side, the work of Deodato is superb. But this event is almost like the modern movies: fx are ok, but the most fail in the script.
On a side note: WW11? Really? My history class are the worst. I believe than there was only two world wars, not eleven.

[Mark]

I'm still amazed that this is the same Nick Fury who had so much trouble with HYDRA over the years.

[jackolover]

Well one things for sure, in 1957 there were no super heroes to stop any alien invasions except McCord. And when Fury took over, he was the only one who could stop alien invasions until 1961 when the Fantastic Four showed up. So from 1961 onwards, Nick Fury could cherry pick his villains to pop in the head with a gamma bullet, and just clean the landscape of the bad nasties, and let the super heroes sweep up the rest. The point being, that now that Fury is out as the Unseen, Bucky doesn't know the first thing about where to look for the nasties, so they are going to come thick and fast from now on, and Bucky is going to have to learn fast which nasties he has to keep on top of before the Earths super heroes are completely overrun.

[TakoM]

Thor-Ul I think jackolover post mustn't be taken to serious .
I explained before why Fury's position doesn't make much sense. What Fury got was only the means to defeat alien at the beginning of the stories . Most of the stuff he had later was stolen and copied from superheroes. If he had the chance he would have also stolen the infinity gems and the ultimate nullifier. He expanded his original mission he got from Starks father by his one and added every new sphere or region which heroes discovered. He has never played in the big games a signification roll and like he talked he don't know the big events are.

It's basically the same mindset which the Illuminati have, I know best, nobody is above me (which I know), and a "I(us) vs (them) the others" thinking.
Partially he was always like this from the beginning. Always snooping around what the superheroes do, never be bound by any rule and always knowing to much about the heroes.

By the first sin was to know the different between good and evil, the second sin was how Kain killed his brother Abel. (in this case it was Kain's: I vs him thinking which lead to this)

[jackolover]

So basically the superheroes are pussies if big bad Fury didn't killed the real menaces? Sad, but if Marvel wants to stick to that, even if that downgrade any menace from the past and most of their characters, and great villians. And bring a lot of questions: What happened the day Galactus appeared? Nick was on vacation or was not that dangerous? Maybe that was why Uatu intervened thata day. Or maybe Nick was teasting Uatu. Or maybe there was another uber galactus who was about to ... don't know, what is worse than eat the world?

True in the art side, the work of Deodato is superb. But this event is almost like the modern movies: fx are ok, but the most fail in the script.
On a side note: WW11? Really? My history class are the worst. I believe than there was only two world wars, not eleven.

Yes, if this is what Marvel are portraying here in OS, that the super heroes are just pussies, then it does drop a dark curtain over the Earth after Fury is removed from interfering. As for Galactus, there were people in the 16th Century that could deter Galactus from the eating the Earth, and Fury knew The Watcher was not going to let the big G eat the Earth when he could interfere and save it.

As for WW11, it's not eleven, it's the common way world war 2 is denoted.

[jackolover]

I'm still amazed that this is the same Nick Fury who had so much trouble with HYDRA over the years.

Except Nick Fury didn't have trouble with Hydra all this time. He was playing them and just keeping them distracted. A better comment is why would Fury bother, and not just shoot Strucker in the head on day one? I suppose you could answer that Hydra being so full of themselves, they thought that they had SHIELD on the run, and this played into Furys hands, because having a Hydra running around chasing SHIELD had them not causing chaos on Earth.

[jackolover]

Thor-Ul I think jackolover post mustn't be taken to serious .
I explained before why Fury's position doesn't make much sense. What Fury got was only the means to defeat alien at the beginning of the stories . Most of the stuff he had later was stolen and copied from superheroes. If he had the chance he would have also stolen the infinity gems and the ultimate nullifier. He expanded his original mission he got from Starks father by his one and added every new sphere or region which heroes discovered. He has never played in the big games a signification roll and like he talked he don't know the big events are.

It's basically the same mindset which the Illuminati have, I know best, nobody is above me (which I know), and a "I(us) vs (them) the others" thinking.
Partially he was always like this from the beginning. Always snooping around what the superheroes do, never be bound by any rule and always knowing to much about the heroes.

By the first sin was to know the different between good and evil, the second sin was how Kain killed his brother Abel. (in this case it was Kain's: I vs him thinking which lead to this)

Very nice on the second sin, with the Cain and Abel analogy of Fury and Uatu.

And very good point that Fury is like another Illuminati. After all, the Illuminati were formed because of an alien invasion (Kree-Skrull War), and Fury's predecessor McCord, started because of Monsters and Alien invasions. Fury does think he knows what's best for the Earth.

As to Fury not having an Ultimate Nullifier, we saw Fury had access to that device when the Avengers showed up in the Savage Land secret cave in Age of Ultron. It seems Fury can teleport in and out of Uatus Moon Base any object that takes his fancy and return it if not needed, so I think Fury is more than just a replication of super hero talents. After all, his LMDs are undetectable and made of alien tech, not super human tech.

And as my theory on what use Fury has, is unproven, it remains to be seen how true Fury, The Man on the Wall, is essential to Earths survival.

[Mark]

Except Nick Fury didn't have trouble with Hydra all this time. He was playing them and just keeping them distracted. A better comment is why would Fury bother, and not just shoot Strucker in the head on day one? I suppose you could answer that Hydra being so full of themselves, they thought that they had SHIELD on the run, and this played into Furys hands, because having a Hydra running around chasing SHIELD had them not causing chaos on Earth.

Having HYDRA around also guaranteed funding for SHIELD and if a few innocent people got caught in the crossfire apparently Fury was willing to let them happen. Not to mention SHIELD agents who devoted their adult lives to battling a threat that Nick could have finished off in a weekend. I think at marvel they have confused arrogance with heroism to the point where they can't tell the difference.

[jackolover]

Having HYDRA around also guaranteed funding for SHIELD and if a few innocent people got caught in the crossfire apparently Fury was willing to let them happen. Not to mention SHIELD agents who devoted their adult lives to battling a threat that Nick could have finished off in a weekend. I think at marvel they have confused arrogance with heroism to the point where they can't tell the difference.

Certainly, Nick Fury saw the prolonged SHIELD/Hydra War as essential and that if agents died in sacrifice, in the process, that was acceptable levels, to achieve the goal of protection of the Earth. That is military expediency, throwing bodies at a fight, and I can understand that coming from Nick Fury, because he believed it was a War and in times of War, you have to make sacrifices.

It's a good point, that Marvel have tainted their characters. There certainly is a greying of the characters, and in Nick Furys case, you can criticise That now Fury has a black hat after all the killings he has done even if it is for the sake of Earths preservation. Is there an argument that assassinations, (like Furys Unseen assassinations) are illegal and that it only prolongs the eventual fate of the World, or, that assassinations are acceptable because it alters history and therefore is justified? If that is a commentary about real world affairs, then there could be an argument that there is an Illuminati in place around the world that have been popping off dictators and politicians all over the world too, just to change the world.

[jackolover]

A prediction was made, I'm not sure if it was Orb, or Madam Web, that a Darkness was going to cover the Earth next, so it makes me inquisitive about the other activities that Fury may have been doing all through Original Sin. Like that he precipitated the Fantastic Four Disassembling, the US Military/Wakanda secret weapons deals, Ezekiel keeping Silk in lockdown for 14 years, Peter Parker's parents keeping the sister a secret from Peter all these years, Tony Starks brother kept secret all these years, Sin suddenly remembering that she can read her fathers diary to pick up Her hammer and release Cul. There are so many missing pieces in the world that I feel suspicious about what Fury was doing now, and what he deemed worthwhile and what he didn't.

Now that Fury is out of the loop that he set in motion, who knows how many of what he set in train is going to go off the rails, now?

[Mark]

Shouldn't war be declared by civilian authorities and then conducted by the military? Did Fury even tell anyone what he was doing? Also how exactly did the Skrull's miss that Dugan was an LMD? For that matter how about the women that Nick Fury had sex with? Do they build the LMD's that good?

Certainly, Nick Fury saw the prolonged SHIELD/Hydra War as essential and that if agents died in sacrifice, in the process, that was acceptable levels, to achieve the goal of protection of the Earth. That is military expediency, throwing bodies at a fight, and I can understand that coming from Nick Fury, because he believed it was a War and in times of War, you have to make sacrifices.

It's a good point, that Marvel have tainted their characters. There certainly is a greying of the characters, and in Nick Furys case, you can criticise That now Fury has a black hat after all the killings he has done even if it is for the sake of Earths preservation. Is there an argument that assassinations, (like Furys Unseen assassinations) are illegal and that it only prolongs the eventual fate of the World, or, that assassinations are acceptable because it alters history and therefore is justified? If that is a commentary about real world affairs, then there could be an argument that there is an Illuminati in place around the world that have been popping off dictators and politicians all over the world too, just to change the world.

[Mark]

Marvel doesn't seem to be really happy unless it is turning heroes into villains.

A prediction was made, I'm not sure if it was Orb, or Madam Web, that a Darkness was going to cover the Earth next, so it makes me inquisitive about the other activities that Fury may have been doing all through Original Sin. Like that he precipitated the Fantastic Four Disassembling, the US Military/Wakanda secret weapons deals, Ezekiel keeping Silk in lockdown for 14 years, Peter Parker's parents keeping the sister a secret from Peter all these years, Tony Starks brother kept secret all these years, Sin suddenly remembering that she can read her fathers diary to pick up Her hammer and release Cul. There are so many missing pieces in the world that I feel suspicious about what Fury was doing now, and what he deemed worthwhile and what he didn't.

Now that Fury is out of the loop that he set in motion, who knows how many of what he set in train is going to go off the rails, now?

[jackolover]

Shouldn't war be declared by civilian authorities and then conducted by the military? Did Fury even tell anyone what he was doing? Also how exactly did the Skrull's miss that Dugan was an LMD? For that matter how about the women that Nick Fury had sex with? Do they build the LMD's that good?

In Furys case, the war was already declared and the rest of the world didn't know about it, so no politicians and no military were involved. From Howard Starks directive to Fury, this was a secret operation.

None of the Avengers could tell that the Fury LMDs were synthetic until they operated on them, because they were alien tech. The Skrulls didn't operate on their captives, like Dugan, because they needed them in full working order as templates, so no discovery of Dugan LMD.

As for women detecting an LMD, only if Fury had sex with women after HA New Avengers #12, when Fury gave his last dose of Infinity Formula to Mockingbird, which is just before Fear Itself.