Ruins of Khazan - A Rumbles RPG - Sign Up/System Test

[Sharpandpointies]

My Leveling ideas were definitely also built with the idea of techniques coming automatically with hitting Affinity capstone points.

If it doesn't follow that system it's a good thing I picked up my Mind technique now. And also fortunate in that Jane's current suite of techniques covers a couple areas.

I was working with that idea as well, but since my character is mostly based on the original system, and I was semi-okay with my choices back then, I'm still good. I have enough mundane techs held back I can modify even an Epic tech with another Epic tech, should I desire, and have a whack of Mind techs I haven't even touched (applying Buffs, Debuffs, and - especially - Mind Status Effects is not exactly a thing for Krys; I can kind of get my head around a couple of potential buffs and such, but the Debuffs are harder and the Status Effects are close to a no-go).

I'll just be cautious and hold onto my current Mundanes rather than boosting a whole whack of currently decent techniques further. Need to see where my weakpoints are.

Speaking of which, shifted my build again to give Death Blossom a more status effect focus with Blunt instead of the Followup.

*heads off to read*

[Sharpandpointies]

I like that, Post. Your character is starting to remind me a little of a Dominion Technique set from Anima called 'Gunhell'. ^_^ Alternately, look up Resonance of Fate.

[Postmania]

I like that, Post. Your character is starting to remind me a little of a Dominion Technique set from Anima called 'Gunhell'. ^_^ Alternately, look up Resonance of Fate.

Iiiiinteresting. I had no knowledge on either of these things so they could be fun to look into more later.

Coincidentally it was while changing this technique that I realized Jane was starting to remind me of the Gunslinger class from Lost Ark that I played some time ago in how she works with status effects although of course the class in that game does a lot more diving into groups of enemies.



All these could be potential for more ideas in future if I stick with the gun focus primarily for techniques (although I am planning on branching out at the same time).

[Nik Hasta]

Updates:

- KingofPie is still in. He's due to come back to me with some updates on Ray Bestia tomorrow. I have ported his character to the current system and highlighted some areas that need to addressed to make his character functional.
- Discussions with Miburo continue. Working on Trait and Technique combos to make Maximo do what he wants him to do.

If we're getting new techniques based on our affinities IF they change, that makes me consider directions to go with techniques (and how I want to set them up now) one way. If we're getting new techniques solely as 'the levelling up bonus technique we can choose', that means techniques will come much slower to add-to/alter/whatever the techniques we have now, and we should be considering that as well.

Just to address the bolded part because it's an interesting question.

Under the current model of levelling up Technique acquisition is a little tricky to predict because it's dependant on a couple of things:

1) +5 across the board = +10 to Affinity Scores which is 1/2 an additional Mundane Slot in all areas.
2) +10 in another single area means you could to the amount required for an additional Mundane Slot in a single area.
3) Thresholds for Mundane vs Honed vs Epic depend on what your build looks like as you level up.

For example, if you have the following builds (using Affinity Stats only):

STR: 10
PRE: 20
CHR: 30

BRA: 10
SPD: 20
SKI: 30

This would equate to the following Affinity Scores:

Body: 10 STR + 20 SPD = 30 Affinity = 1 Mundane Slot
Spirit: 20 PRE + 30 SKI = 50 Affinity = 2 Mundane Slots, 1 Honed Slot
Mind: 30 CHR + 10 BRA = 40 Affinity = 2 Mundane Slots, 1 Honed Slot

Now, if we level them up:

STR: 10 + 5 = 15
PRE: 20 + 5 = 25
CHR: 30 + 5 = 35

BRA: 10 + 5 = 15
SPD: 20 + 5 = 25
SKI: 30 + 5 = 35

We then land on the following Affinities:

Body: 15 STR + 25 SPD = 40 Affinity = 2 Mundane Slot, 1 Honed Slot (+1 Mundane, +1 Honed)
Spirit: 25 PRE + 35 SKI = 60 Affinity = 3 Mundane Slots, 1 Honed Slot, 1 Epic Slot (+1 Mundane, +1 Epic)
Mind: 35 CHR + 15 BRA = 50 Affinity = 2 Mundane Slots, 1 Honed Slot (+0 Slots)

So, working off Affinity makes it a lot harder to predict when players will get new abilities because it factors in to their build decisions and my instinct is to try and keep people's experience consistent. If I just give you the option for a new Technique, then they can take that. No one is going to feel that they didn't really get much from levelling in terms of Techniques just because their thresholds are out of step with other players.

Also, the other factor that has held me back from applying Affinity Changes to levelling up, it causes changes in DMG reduction. As you get more of everything, the areas where you have the highest reduction will ultimately trend downward while the areas you are worse in will trend upwards as they gain more slots under their Affinity more quickly with things eventually getting really granular and everyone having effectively the same damage reduction in all Affinity Areas.

While damage reduction is a small factor in the overall flow of combat, I didn't really like the idea of specialised defences getting worse as players get stronger. Hence I opted to remove Affinity from levelling up to preserve your defensive allocations which will do more as modifiers as your DUR and RES rise naturally.

So, that's kind of where I'm at on levelling as it pertains to Affinity. It's a bit messy and I'm currently favouring a simpler "gift-based system," for Techniques and Levelling to ensure a more even experience and without compromising unique defensive systems.

But as noted, that's down the list at the minute so while I'm happy to take further questions, I will remind people that I'm not actively working on this aspect of the game at the current time.

[Sharpandpointies]

Iiiiinteresting. I had no knowledge on either of these things so they could be fun to look into more later.

Gunhell is presumably a Solomonic Technique Tree whose first technique involves the manifesting of rapid-fire pistols from Ki (yep, technique that makes two pistols from Ki). Every other technique (except the 'Bullet-time' dodge technique) requires that technique to be maintained. Then it has stuff like an automatic fire technique, a sniper technique, a technique that marks the opponent making them easier to shoot - some of these are pretty cool, others have less-cool names and descriptions, so the Gunhell practitioner in one of my games asked if they could change names and fluff for some of them, and I was cool with it. They switched a couple of minor things in the techs, some of the names, and changed the special effects to (mostly) 'sketches out new additions to the pistols, which then join with the pistols, solidify, and permit the use of the technique before disappearing'. Their use of the automatic fire technique, for example, which they call 'Flywheel Chamber' involves Ki sketching out a design for a cylindrical firing chamber (like a revolver's, only a CAD sketch) that then joins with each pistol and solidifiers into a solid cylinder marked with Solomonic runes. The cylinders on the pistols begin to spin, and then both guns open up with a hellish barrage of projectiles. Once the burst is finished, the special chambers effectively de-rezz.

The whole technique tree culminates in a technique named 'Storm Waltz' which involves throwing silver coins into the air then firing a single shot that bounces off all of them, making the coins fly like bullets into all chosen targets in a 100' or 150' radius. Again, my player didn't like that so much (and had seen the Resonance of Fate game) and changed that to 'throws the coins in the air, then blasts away with both guns while spinning and twisting in place; the bullets unerringly strike different coins, ricocheting off of them to hit every chosen target within the same area'.

Sorry about the rambling. It's a pretty potent technique tree, anyway.

Coincidentally it was while changing this technique that I realized Jane was starting to remind me of the Gunslinger class from Lost Ark that I played some time ago in how she works with status effects although of course the class in that game does a lot more diving into groups of enemies.

This works pretty cool for how I'm picturing Jane, now. ^_^ The mobility, moving through enemies, the fast shooting and prepped, explosive attacks, etc. Nice.

[Sharpandpointies]

Updates:

- KingofPie is still in. He's due to come back to me with some updates on Ray Bestia tomorrow. I have ported his character to the current system and highlighted some areas that need to addressed to make his character functional.
- Discussions with Miburo continue. Working on Trait and Technique combos to make Maximo do what he wants him to do.]

Coolness!

Under the current model of levelling up Technique acquisition is a little tricky to predict because it's dependant on a couple of things:

1) +5 across the board = +10 to Affinity Scores which is 1/2 an additional Mundane Slot in all areas.
2) +10 in another single area means you could to the amount required for an additional Mundane Slot in a single area.
3) Thresholds for Mundane vs Honed vs Epic depend on what your build looks like as you level up.

Totally agreed. It's one reason I started thinking 'Maaaaaybe Nik doesn't want Affinity scores to change and determine techniques, because whooo, Level 2 Krys picked up a bunch of new techs already.' Felt...maybe not right.

So, working off Affinity makes it a lot harder to predict when players will get new abilities because it factors in to their build decisions and my instinct is to try and keep people's experience consistent. If I just give you the option for a new Technique, then they can take that. No one is going to feel that they didn't really get much from levelling in terms of Techniques just because their thresholds are out of step with other players.

Also, the other factor that has held me back from applying Affinity Changes to levelling up, it causes changes in DMG reduction. As you get more of everything, the areas where you have the highest reduction will ultimately trend downward while the areas you are worse in will trend upwards as they gain more slots under their Affinity more quickly with things eventually getting really granular and everyone having effectively the same damage reduction in all Affinity Areas.

All of this makes perfect sense.

So, that's kind of where I'm at on levelling as it pertains to Affinity. It's a bit messy and I'm currently favouring a simpler "gift-based system," for Techniques and Levelling to ensure a more even experience and without compromising unique defensive systems.

But as noted, that's down the list at the minute so while I'm happy to take further questions, I will remind people that I'm not actively working on this aspect of the game at the current time.

Also all perfectly sensible.

[Sharpandpointies]

Assuming this is correct for Krys:

For example;

Krys has 10 RES, 10 CHR and Mind Resistance of 18.42%. They decide to buff their SKI with a Mind Technique and the various levels shake down as follows:

- Mundane: ([10 CHR] + [20 Technique Modifier])/2 = 15 boost - (10/2=5) + (5*0.1842 = 0.972) = 5.972 = 9.079, rounded down to +9 to SKI for 1 turn
- Honed: ([10 CHR] + [40 Technique Modifier])/2 = 25 boost - 5.9 = +19 to SKI for 4 turns
- Epic: ([10 CHR] + [60 Technique Modifier])/2 = 35 boost - 5.9 = +29 to SKI for 6 turns

I've taken a Honed SPD Buff technique (so, identical to above but with SPD) to replace my mundane speed boosting technique (same name, fluff, and since the fluff partly has to do with perception, it works thematically). It gives +19 SPD, +24 if CHA is stacked and RES isn't when I apply it. 25 ENE, 4 turns. I figure it's worth it, and I can keep a Mundane to toss around wherever I want.

...and I get four rounds of it, and +19/+24 to help deal with those pesky dodgers.

[Nik Hasta]

Assuming this is correct for Krys:



I've taken a Honed SPD Buff technique (so, identical to above but with SPD) to replace my mundane speed boosting technique (same name, fluff, and since the fluff partly has to do with perception, it works thematically). It gives +19 SPD, +24 if CHA is stacked and RES isn't when I apply it. 25 ENE, 4 turns. I figure it's worth it, and I can keep a Mundane to toss around wherever I want.

...and I get four rounds of it, and +19/+24 to help deal with those pesky dodgers.

Okay, so this is "Distance Is Factual, But Flexibly So." right? Please don't include reduction of the amount of the boost ahead of time because it'll make me make mistakes when I'm running the game and you might end up with a +8 rather than a +19.

So, this is a Honed Mind Tech so it would give you +40 CHR in mechanical terms, right?

In which case, your numbers are correct in terms of what will happen when it goes off. Please note on the technique that the boost it is providing is +40 CHR that is used as a buff applied to SPD for 4 Turns. You can keep the other notations for your reference but do make sure that the first and clearest thing listed is the actual boost amount.

Just cuts down on risk in the future.

As a note to others, this is the trade off with Mind stuff. The boost you get is halved and minused your damage reduction on RES, so with Krys having literally the lowest RES possible, they lose an additional point. But, it's four turns with no ENR upkeep. Whereas, if you were to use a Honed Body Slot for a SPD boost, it would be one turn but it would be the full +40 SPD.

[Sharpandpointies]

In which case, your numbers are correct in terms of what will happen when it goes off. Please note on the technique that the boost it is providing is +40 CHR that is used as a buff applied to SPD for 4 Turns. You can keep the other notations for your reference but do make sure that the first and clearest thing listed is the actual boost amount.

Yessir!

As a note to others, this is the trade off with Mind stuff. The boost you get is halved and minused your damage reduction on RES, so with Krys having literally the lowest RES possible, they lose an additional point. But, it's four turns with no ENR upkeep. Whereas, if you were to use a Honed Body Slot for a SPD boost, it would be one turn but it would be the full +40 SPD.

Absolutely. I could get the same results as I am now with a Mundane SPD technique (close enough, anyway). Used over four turns it would cost more ENR (40 to 25), though I wouldn't NEED to have it up for four turns. More versatility. However, it would mean giving up a Mundane Technique.

I want those mundane techs; I have less need for Mind ones, so it makes sense for me to just bite the bullet and go this direction. ^_^

Edit: Also, this way I keep my SPD for four turns but don't need to use a Technique action to maintain that speed on Turns 2, 3, and 4.

[Postmania]

Gunhell is presumably a Solomonic Technique Tree whose first technique involves the manifesting of rapid-fire pistols from Ki (yep, technique that makes two pistols from Ki). Every other technique (except the 'Bullet-time' dodge technique) requires that technique to be maintained. Then it has stuff like an automatic fire technique, a sniper technique, a technique that marks the opponent making them easier to shoot - some of these are pretty cool, others have less-cool names and descriptions, so the Gunhell practitioner in one of my games asked if they could change names and fluff for some of them, and I was cool with it. They switched a couple of minor things in the techs, some of the names, and changed the special effects to (mostly) 'sketches out new additions to the pistols, which then join with the pistols, solidify, and permit the use of the technique before disappearing'. Their use of the automatic fire technique, for example, which they call 'Flywheel Chamber' involves Ki sketching out a design for a cylindrical firing chamber (like a revolver's, only a CAD sketch) that then joins with each pistol and solidifiers into a solid cylinder marked with Solomonic runes. The cylinders on the pistols begin to spin, and then both guns open up with a hellish barrage of projectiles. Once the burst is finished, the special chambers effectively de-rezz.

The whole technique tree culminates in a technique named 'Storm Waltz' which involves throwing silver coins into the air then firing a single shot that bounces off all of them, making the coins fly like bullets into all chosen targets in a 100' or 150' radius. Again, my player didn't like that so much (and had seen the Resonance of Fate game) and changed that to 'throws the coins in the air, then blasts away with both guns while spinning and twisting in place; the bullets unerringly strike different coins, ricocheting off of them to hit every chosen target within the same area'.

Sorry about the rambling. It's a pretty potent technique tree, anyway.

I did end up finding an Anima book online and I definitely saw resemblances. Will likely try out Resonance of Fate too just bc it looks cool.

This works pretty cool for how I'm picturing Jane, now. ^_^ The mobility, moving through enemies, the fast shooting and prepped, explosive attacks, etc. Nice.

It's interesting bc as mentioned the game had slipped out of my mind almost completely, but it might have subconsciously influenced me at least a little in how things played out.

Updates:

- KingofPie is still in. He's due to come back to me with some updates on Ray Bestia tomorrow. I have ported his character to the current system and highlighted some areas that need to addressed to make his character functional.
- Discussions with Miburo continue. Working on Trait and Technique combos to make Maximo do what he wants him to do.



Just to address the bolded part because it's an interesting question.

Under the current model of levelling up Technique acquisition is a little tricky to predict because it's dependant on a couple of things:

1) +5 across the board = +10 to Affinity Scores which is 1/2 an additional Mundane Slot in all areas.
2) +10 in another single area means you could to the amount required for an additional Mundane Slot in a single area.
3) Thresholds for Mundane vs Honed vs Epic depend on what your build looks like as you level up.

For example, if you have the following builds (using Affinity Stats only):

STR: 10
PRE: 20
CHR: 30

BRA: 10
SPD: 20
SKI: 30

This would equate to the following Affinity Scores:

Body: 10 STR + 20 SPD = 30 Affinity = 1 Mundane Slot
Spirit: 20 PRE + 30 SKI = 50 Affinity = 2 Mundane Slots, 1 Honed Slot
Mind: 30 CHR + 10 BRA = 40 Affinity = 2 Mundane Slots, 1 Honed Slot

Now, if we level them up:

STR: 10 + 5 = 15
PRE: 20 + 5 = 25
CHR: 30 + 5 = 35

BRA: 10 + 5 = 15
SPD: 20 + 5 = 25
SKI: 30 + 5 = 35

We then land on the following Affinities:

Body: 15 STR + 25 SPD = 40 Affinity = 2 Mundane Slot, 1 Honed Slot (+1 Mundane, +1 Honed)
Spirit: 25 PRE + 35 SKI = 60 Affinity = 3 Mundane Slots, 1 Honed Slot, 1 Epic Slot (+1 Mundane, +1 Epic)
Mind: 35 CHR + 15 BRA = 50 Affinity = 2 Mundane Slots, 1 Honed Slot (+0 Slots)

So, working off Affinity makes it a lot harder to predict when players will get new abilities because it factors in to their build decisions and my instinct is to try and keep people's experience consistent. If I just give you the option for a new Technique, then they can take that. No one is going to feel that they didn't really get much from levelling in terms of Techniques just because their thresholds are out of step with other players.

Also, the other factor that has held me back from applying Affinity Changes to levelling up, it causes changes in DMG reduction. As you get more of everything, the areas where you have the highest reduction will ultimately trend downward while the areas you are worse in will trend upwards as they gain more slots under their Affinity more quickly with things eventually getting really granular and everyone having effectively the same damage reduction in all Affinity Areas.

While damage reduction is a small factor in the overall flow of combat, I didn't really like the idea of specialised defences getting worse as players get stronger. Hence I opted to remove Affinity from levelling up to preserve your defensive allocations which will do more as modifiers as your DUR and RES rise naturally.

So, that's kind of where I'm at on levelling as it pertains to Affinity. It's a bit messy and I'm currently favouring a simpler "gift-based system," for Techniques and Levelling to ensure a more even experience and without compromising unique defensive systems.

But as noted, that's down the list at the minute so while I'm happy to take further questions, I will remind people that I'm not actively working on this aspect of the game at the current time.

This does make sense. I'll be sad not to be able to jump straight into stuff like taking Spirit to 120 and getting a Mundane, Honed, and Epic technique in a "player gets all the goodies" sense but it does prevent things from being overstuffed techniquewise and thus potentially lowering the importance of techniques themselves, and I suppose the choices as you level up.

Okay, so this is "Distance Is Factual, But Flexibly So." right? Please don't include reduction of the amount of the boost ahead of time because it'll make me make mistakes when I'm running the game and you might end up with a +8 rather than a +19.

So, this is a Honed Mind Tech so it would give you +40 CHR in mechanical terms, right?

In which case, your numbers are correct in terms of what will happen when it goes off. Please note on the technique that the boost it is providing is +40 CHR that is used as a buff applied to SPD for 4 Turns. You can keep the other notations for your reference but do make sure that the first and clearest thing listed is the actual boost amount.

Just cuts down on risk in the future.

As a note to others, this is the trade off with Mind stuff. The boost you get is halved and minused your damage reduction on RES, so with Krys having literally the lowest RES possible, they lose an additional point. But, it's four turns with no ENR upkeep. Whereas, if you were to use a Honed Body Slot for a SPD boost, it would be one turn but it would be the full +40 SPD.

True, direct boosts with the specific technique do outdo Mind in strength. I suppose Mind is kind of supposed to be a middle ground with Persistent Techniques, bc I see them as less costly than those in terms of allowing benefits but not requiring additional ENR each turn.

[Sharpandpointies]

True, direct boosts with the specific technique do outdo Mind in strength. I suppose Mind is kind of supposed to be a middle ground with Persistent Techniques, bc I see them as less costly than those in terms of allowing benefits but not requiring additional ENR each turn.

They also lose out in that they don't get status effects. I can boost my SPD as much as I want with Mind, I still can't get Uncanny Dodge to go along with that. ^_^

[Sharpandpointies]

I did end up finding an Anima book online and I definitely saw resemblances. Will likely try out Resonance of Fate too just bc it looks cool.

RoF has a combat system that, after a point, becomes more about the visuals because it's pretty limited. And the story is very...limited as well. But the game is gorgeous (for the time), you get to play around trying to get your equipment to the best possible level and buy all of the different clothing outfits for everyone (there are...a LOT, and they mix and match), and even if the combat is basically 'try to do the same thing over and over again', it's fun simply because the Gun-Fu is so over-the-top it's a treat to watch.

[Postmania]

New Trait/Technique combinations are probably going to be a bit slower to go for with leveling, so probably best to plan for simpler things if you don't want to wait.

[Sharpandpointies]

I’m kind of hoping we get new traits at levels, two, four, six.

[Nik Hasta]

Just nudging Beadle and Cthulhu to check in and let me know where you currently are in developing your characters.