X-Men Monday #174 - Steve Orlando Talks...and says quite a lot.

[Aeon]

Wait! THAT‘s Steve Orlando? Oh My God!! Why did I never check him before..

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[shugahfree]

Orlando's interviews read very similarly to his books. Ambitious, nearly frenetic ideas that end up in a surprisingly dull and hollow end product.

His first Midnighter miniseries has been the only exception.

[BobbysWorld]

I'm not saying much because this arc is either gonna make or break my theory, lol, so I'm basically just waiting to see which way it looks like things are landing.

That said, I do think people have been making too much out of the assumption that he's in any way confirmed that Threshold mutants evolved two billion years in the past, and existed as a whole evolutionary chain before life as we know it ever evolved on Earth. As far as I can tell, everything he says could simply be about the possibility that a fairly advanced civilization, industrialized but pre space-age, could have existed that far back without leaving any evidence that we can detect. I honestly don't see anything that specifically suggests that Thresholders were native to that point in time and evolved all the way back then naturally....OTHER than the Marauders - who have no way of knowing for sure and are just assuming things - repeatedly calling them mutantkind's ancestors based on the fact that their civilization exists so far back then.

And as I said in my theory thread, I don't think that in and of itself is indicative of anything. I think its more likely one of those cases where characters make a mistake or misassumption not because its a natural conclusion for someone characterized with their usual level of intelligence, but to artificially inflate the 'weight' of some future story beat. How much they keep dropping the term 'ancestors' in story is IMO not because its the conclusion the characters came to after sitting down and thinking through the logistics....its just to make it feel like more of a twist if/when the Marauders discover that the mutants they've been assuming to be their ancestors are actually their DESCENDANTS via Krakoans at some future point time-traveling to the distant past and founding Threshold.

*Shrugs* Its certainly A Choice, but while mileage may vary as to its execution, an assumptive word choice by the characters in service to a specific plot twist is a very different thing from 'he's trying to say that mutants were always the rightful inheritors of the Earth/predate humanity to make it seem like they have The Right to be the dominant species'. I mean, both are just speculation at this point, but just putting it out there.

Any way, Orlando's run is obviously pretty hit or miss and much more of a miss than a hit with a lot of people on this board, but oh well, I'm obviously right in his target audience, lmao. Is it the greatest or best executed run? Nah, but I find it fun and it keeps me curious where its going, which is all I'm really looking for at the end of the day. I'm very interested in seeing what Threshold is like as a society, and what makes it distinct from the other mutant societies we've seen. To be fair, I totally get why people are wary of yet another mutant civilization and think things are too crowded and these characters will just end up another discarded offshoot like the Neo....buuuuuut I just wanna point out that a lot of people said that about the Arakkii when they first showed up too, and now some of the objections are because people WANT to see this page time devoted to showing more about the Arakkii.

(And yes, it all comes down to execution, and I'm not saying I expect Orlando to flesh out Threshold and its inhabitants on par with the work Ewing's done with the Arakkii in X-Men Red.....but I am saying that Ewing didn't have anything to do with creating Arakko and most of its inhabitants either, so there's precedent just in this era alone for how much other writers can do with a whole new mutant civilization introduced by someone else).

As to how crowded its getting conceptually, and how that could contribute to the likelihood Thresholders will end up being just more Neo, forgotten and discarded by future writers......again, I get that POV and its obviously a possibility. But I don't think its a guarantee because this era is kinda...built....to support the introduction of something like Threshold, in a way that the X-franchise wasn't geared to support the introduction of the Neo or their longterm story significance.

And that's because this era is literally ABOUT exploring what mutants can do when they work together for a common goal, what a mutant society can look like and what mutants can build when focused on more than just bare survival. Its the basic, underlying premise of the Krakoan concept. Arakko and its inhabitants COULD just as easily have ended up more Neo when they were introduced and like a lot of people assumed, and a lot of people still write them off but plenty of others did end up invested....and yes a lot of that is due to execution, BUT I think its also because the framework was there. Arakko ended up having legs specifically BECAUSE its so different to Krakoa....its a whole other mutant society, but it doesn't feel gratuitous to a lot of people because the two societies aren't interchangeable. They're completely different looks at the kind of society mutants can create, and the ways they're distinct are the point of appeal.

Krakoa doesn't get as many criticisms about being a fake utopia right now, and I think a lot of that has to do with Arakko feeling like an actual distinct society now as opposed to just something offscreen that characters repeatedly referenced but which didn't exist beyond that. While Krakoan society itself is as flawed as ever, the perception that writers were blind to its flaws and just trying to gloss over its worse parts has diminished since its no longer the only game in town, y'know? When there's two mutant societies front and center, both of them completely different and the narrative NOT actually trying to suggest one is Good and one is Bad.....its a lot easier to see one society's flaws as literally just that....its flaws. The mere juxtaposition of two different and distinct societies that could result from mutants banding together against common enemies.....like, transforms either one of them from just The One True Ideal for mutant solidarity, to two different explorations of both the pros and cons of mutant solidarity, with plenty of room to compare and contrast between them.

After all, one of the things people criticized about Krakoa was the idea that all mutants would just be on board with it and the way its leaders believed in doing things. There was a lot of 'what would an alternative to Krakoa look like/what if other mutants wanted to set up their own society with different ideals and methodologies/its not the idea of a mutant society that people object to its just this specific version of a mutant society'.....with this being common even after the inception of Arakko because its mere existence didn't do anything to satisfy this want in readers or present an actual alternative to Krakoa. BUT once its actual world-building got underway, it and Arakkii mutants started gaining fans with pretty considerable momentum. It wasn't ACTUALLY an uphill battle to get readers invested in them.....the want for characters and concepts that filled this particular niche was already in place.

And that's why I think there is still room for Threshold too....because mutant society is as much a focus of interest in this era as mutant characters individually. And similarly, there's still plenty of ways and places that Arakko and Krakoa's different approaches to things still don't satisfy fans who don't particularly like either civilization or their approach to things....because one versus one isn't actually the most comprehensive foundation for a thorough exploration of ways mutant societies could be shaped. But a TRIANGLE of three distinct mutant societies with their own distinct touches....there's a lot that can be done with that.

Of course it comes down to execution - it always does. But especially if I'm right about Threshold having always been part of the overall plan for the Krakoan era and Marauders just picked as the best vehicle to introduce it and its mutant society....there's a lot of potential for it to add to the mix already established with Krakoa and Arakko, and less risk of it ending up left in the dust while the other two thrive with their respective fans. Its hard to neglect or overlook one of three distinct mutant societies when the various ways all three societies compare or contrast is literally a point of focus for the entire era, y'know? When having three different examples of a mutant civilization juxtaposed side by side is literally the POINT of introducing these other societies instead of just focusing on Krakoa and mutants we're already familiar with.

(Quick tangent....buuuuuut.....we're still in the Destiny of X era, and the promotional stuff for Destiny of X certainly did love the number three as the go-to when presenting different possibilities, didn't it? All the covers that showed three different looks at different characters' futures, the tri-part conflict of futures where mutants win vs ones where humanity wins vs ones where mutants and humanity both lose and machines dominate the future....like, it could definitely be argued that the writers and editors seem to see 'three' as the magic number for points of comparison, when comparing different possible outcomes is their whole POINT).

Anyway, like I said, it all comes down to execution, mileage will always vary from readers to readers, and maybe adding Threshold to the mix IS too much. But I don't think that HAS to innately be the case. I think just like with Arakko, the framework is there, in the building blocks of this entire era and its basic premises and themes, to support the introduction/exploration of at least this one more look at a distinctly different way mutants might come together and what a society they create might look like.

[BobbysWorld]

(I mean, one of the only things we HAVE been told about Threshold as of this point, is that its people were largely peaceful until the Shi'ar attacked them, and their society was geared around/predicated on living in a peaceful time without any enemies before that point. The exact opposite of the Arakkii, who were introduced as a society entrenched in a forever war.

That contrast seems fairly deliberate and significant to me.

Three distinct mutant societies, three different looks at what kind of civilization mutants could build.....one a society shaped by mutants embedded in longterm conflict and fighting for their survival, one a society shaped by mutants NOT at war or at risk from any obvious enemies and presented as a peaceful civilization existing in fairly idyllic circumstances, and the third society being Krakoa itself, a civilization shaped by mutants who were neither as entrenched in war as the Arakkii nor as free from enemies as the Thresholders seemed to be, but rather somewhere between those two spectrum extremes.

That's a fairly strong basis for a triangle that exists to compare and contrast three different looks at what mutant civilization could be like, IMO.)

[Nicoclaws]

(I mean, one of the only things we HAVE been told about Threshold as of this point, is that its people were largely peaceful until the Shi'ar attacked them, and their society was geared around/predicated on living in a peaceful time without any enemies before that point. The exact opposite of the Arakkii, who were introduced as a society entrenched in a forever war.

That contrast seems fairly deliberate and significant to me.

Three distinct mutant societies, three different looks at what kind of civilization mutants could build.....one a society shaped by mutants embedded in longterm conflict and fighting for their survival, one a society shaped by mutants NOT at war or at risk from any obvious enemies and presented as a peaceful civilization existing in fairly idyllic circumstances, and the third society being Krakoa itself, a civilization shaped by mutants who were neither as entrenched in war as the Arakkii nor as free from enemies as the Thresholders seemed to be, but rather somewhere between those two spectrum extremes.

That's a fairly strong basis for a triangle that exists to compare and contrast three different looks at what mutant civilization could be like, IMO.)

Also, reminder : whatever the society, they always lose. Big plot point.

[BobbysWorld]

Also, reminder : whatever the society, they always lose. Big plot point.

I mean, I didn't want to end on a downer, but yeah, there's that too, lol. But in theory all three societies can learn from each other and change accordingly, or together create something from their strongest parts, something sustainable and not condemned to the same fate each faced individually.

[BobbysWorld]

Well crap. Just read Marauders #7, and I might have to eat a considerable amount of crow on a number of fronts before this arc is over. That's always annoying. Oh well. My poor, precious theory, I was so proud of it. Ah, hubris.

Anyway, not ruling stuff out just yet, as a lot was implied in this issue but nothing outright finalized on various key points of my speculation, more it just introduced a lot more room for doubt than I previously was assuming. Preparing myself for the possibility I was way off-base all along, although that's not actually clear one way or another yet. We'll see.

[JB]

Well crap. Just read Marauders #7, and I might have to eat a considerable amount of crow on a number of fronts before this arc is over. That's always annoying. Oh well. My poor, precious theory, I was so proud of it. Ah, hubris.

Anyway, not ruling stuff out just yet, as a lot was implied in this issue but nothing outright finalized on various key points of my speculation, more it just introduced a lot more room for doubt than I previously was assuming. Preparing myself for the possibility I was way off-base all along, although that's not actually clear one way or another yet. We'll see.

Hmm, interesting. I vote for you to throw together a review/spoiler thread so you can expound.

[BobbysWorld]

Hmm, interesting. I vote for you to throw together a review/spoiler thread so you can expound.

I would love to but no way I'll find the time in the rest of today, though I'll definitely weigh in tomorrow or make it then if its still not up. (There's always a delay when it comes to new Marauders issues, lol).

[BroHomo]

I don't understand what Orlando's Scarlet Witch has to do with the X-Men? Why spend a lot of time talking about this in XMM? X-fans have been urged to forgive her. Wow. I don't want to see her at all. She's not an X character at all, and some of her fanatical fans are getting on my nerves.

This is hilarious and so true

[JB]

Me refreshing AIPT for today's X-Men Monday...

[Rift]

Me refreshing AIPT for today's X-Men Monday...

Right? I'm just bouncing between AIPT and the forums, waiting for it to just magically pop up 15 seconds after I last checked.

[JB]

Right? I'm just bouncing between AIPT and the forums, waiting for it to just magically pop up 15 seconds after I last checked.

Same, while also peeking at AIPT's twitter to see if they give us an ETA. We should play a game - what questions would you submit NOW after the announcements this past weekend?

My first would of course be will Rictor be in BBCB?!
Will Bishop possibly teach additional classes after the current class graduates? Just to hopefully get insight on if they are open to keeping it going if it does well.
What are the other titles doing during SoS?
Will Rogue and Gambit's adventure in Captain Marvel be connected to their series?
With several Otherworld realms available, when will you announce the Hellion series where he shops around to see which one he wants to rule?

[Rift]

Dang, I forgot about Carol's book. It'd also be neat if that also connected to Laura's flashback story somehow, since she's also in it. I doubt it, but a man can dream.

Also, Hellion can rule all the kingdoms. He's talented and deserving enough.

[CGAR]

They are really making us wait for this