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  1. #16
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    This was very well-done issue. I'm absolutely loving Judgment Day because of how it delves into character issues.

    The theme of this issue with culpability, and Jean is such a good choice for that. She's done so much good over the course of her existence, but there's one dark blot that can never be forgiven. Nor should it. What she did to the D'Bari was heinous, even if it was with the nudging of the Phoenix. I think of it as similar to drunk driving. Someone might be drunk, but they can make the choice to go behind the wheel. Even if they dedicate to their life to preventing drunk driving, it will never be enough if they t-boned and killed someone.

    I also like how it touched on the Quiet Council. Although not explicitly stated, the first thing I thought was Jean choosing to be the X-Men because there are fewer difficult choices there. To quote Hamilton, "Winning is easy, governing is harder." In many ways, it's easier to rack up the good wins. Being a part of a government entity has more culpability when things go wrong. The X-Men are the unquestioned Good Guys. Although there are clearly good people on the The Quiet Council, by nature of voting the Quiet Council sometimes does Bad Things and have to make decisions that can lead to the harm of others, even if they believe it is for the Great Good. It's easier to be the saint on the X-Men.

    I'm curious to see where Jean goes from here and what she does with the judgment. With some characters who failed, I feel like they sort of knew it was coming. How does failing -- which Wolverine notes Jean isn't used to -- impact her moving forward? Right now we're in the righteous fury stage, but will there be more? What stood out to me in the end was that Jean focused on the hypocrisy of the Progenitor. In some ways, she made it about herself, which was an intriguing touch.

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    It's probably me but I really dislike them using Lizzie Olsen as their model for Jean Grey in this issue. In some of those images I wanted to savour the power and image of Jean Grey, and instead all I saw was Wanda...

  3. #18
    Incredible Member Agatha's Ghost's Avatar
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    Wonderful issue. Of course, she failed. It was presumptuous of her to even take the test.

  4. #19
    The Red Dragon
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    Best Jean focused issue in years. Respected/reconfirmed her history while showing her recent thoughts on her actions while setting up more for future stories to delve into. Plus great art and wonderful character moments is a win win.

  5. #20
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Her range.

    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  6. #21
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    She looks like an atomic bomb that just got set off in that last picture

  7. #22
    Fantastic Member Aeon's Avatar
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    Was it during her resurrection story anew years ago, when sit was revealed that the Phoenix actually held her powers back?

  8. #23
    Very well. War. Subliminally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeon View Post
    Was it during her resurrection story anew years ago, when sit was revealed that the Phoenix actually held her powers back?
    From what I remember reading it wasn't the Phoenix holding her back but her hold limits since she didn't want the Phoenix to take over while she was pushing he powers. When she officially severed the connection she could fully flaunt everything in her tank without worry.
    This is not our house. Know that and know peace!

    Not really active here anymore, feel free to find me on the cesspool that is Twitter: https://twitter.com/DivineMutation

  9. #24
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Her range.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    She looks like an atomic bomb that just got set off in that last picture
    I always wanted to see something push Jean to the point where she lets go!
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]

    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."


    Like a Red Dragon, The Phoenix shall Soar in 2024!

  10. #25
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tank View Post
    Best Jean focused issue in years. Respected/reconfirmed her history while showing her recent thoughts on her actions while setting up more for future stories to delve into. Plus great art and wonderful character moments is a win win.
    I totally agree!

    On another note, I love that Gillen liked and pretty much co-signed my tweet...



    Last edited by Mercury; 10-05-2022 at 03:16 PM.
    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  11. #26
    Julian Keller Supremacy Rift's Avatar
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    Progenitor: "D'Bari!"
    Phoenix: "Dude, writers have been rehashing that for 30 years."
    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Hellion is the talk of the boards and rightfully so.

  12. #27
    Fantastic Member Ulysian_Thracs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rift View Post
    Progenitor: "D'Bari!"
    Phoenix: "Dude, writers have been rehashing that for 30 years."
    If I had more faith in the X-Writers, I would think this is a great opportunity to put it behind Jean once and for all. I think the Celestial is right and (if the X-Office wanted it to) actually makes her see that it isn't a math equation...you killed x billion - you saved y billion equals you are good or bad. Nothing good Jean does can ever erase the bad she's done while under the Phoenix spell, and nothing good she's done is erased by the bad she did. That's the only way she can put it behind her as a character is if she accepts she did something bad and puts it behind her to keep doing good.
    I'm not totally useless. I can always be used as a bad example...

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeon View Post
    Was it during her resurrection story anew years ago, when sit was revealed that the Phoenix actually held her powers back?
    Tom Taylor said that during X-Men Red vol 1, and I love X-Men Red and Taylor's vibe in general, but that doesn't actually make any sense.

    Essentially, editorial was and is heavily anti Jean's Phoenix stories, so Tom just kinda said that because that is the thing to say.

  14. #29
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    Tom Taylor said that during X-Men Red vol 1, and I love X-Men Red and Taylor's vibe in general, but that doesn't actually make any sense.

    Essentially, editorial was and is heavily anti Jean's Phoenix stories, so Tom just kinda said that because that is the thing to say.


    This is that scene and while it wasnt expounded on, I think it makes sense. When bonded to the PF, Jean gets to feel like what it is to be a god. There is temptation and sensation associated with having that much power were she to abuse it. The potential for her to let loose as Phoenix is there and she runs the risk of another DP moment, which she of course is fully aware of as she experienced (as seen in Inferno). Without the fear of transcending into some cosmic entity, she is able to push herself on her own merits, not bc she is possessed

  15. #30
    Astonishing Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    I loved this issue. It was so good. It was a great character piece for Jean. Gillen understands her. Some of us were nervous about this issue because of how it was billed. We were told that it was going to address the complex relationship between Jean and Phoenix and burn away that mystery. It delivered but just not in the way we expected. It wasn't that explicit but the message (thus far) is clear.

    Some fans were worried that Jean would lost the guilt over Dark Phoenix, and I think some fans wanted Jean to shed the guilt. But the DPS experience is a defining experience. You don't just get over trauma. It stays with you. It will stay with Jean. It helps make her a complex character. I love that her history was respected.

    Jean will always try to atone for the actions of DP and while she will never make it right. She will keep trying. Even with the retcon we know a part of Jean was with the Phoenix (afterall by the retcon it copied her mind/body and a portion of her soul - not too different from the current resurrection process via Cerebro imo) so Jean bears responsibility - and other times Jean has taken responsibility by acknowledging she called out to Phoenix and allowed them to merge. Jean has been judged for DP before - when the last D'Bari came after her and as a teen in the Trial of Jean Grey. In Duggan's current X-men run we see that she still has Phoenix related nightmares. Again the trauma remains. It isn't something she will get over.

    I love that Jean strives to be a hero. That has been her arc in the Hickman Era. She was uncomfortable with the actions of X-force and she became uncomfortable with the actions of the QC. She wanted to do more. I like that she was judged for leaving the quiet counsel.

    I liked how they referenced how powerful she is and that she is aware of her power. I like the line about not using to failing tests (I love it when they acknowledge that she was Xavier's star student - often times Cyke gets the focus but Xavier will always be close to Jean since they share similar gifts).

    The art was great. Jean's characterization was great. I love how she was described by other characters like the Celestial, Wolverine, Ajack, etc. I liked that we get to see Jean's temper. I've always liked that aspect of her. She is a nice and warm character, but everyone has limits. The part where Jean is described as a saint and sometimes a bully does remind me of how she's often characterized by fans (but I think the bully part was a callback to her fight with Emma where Emma calls her a playground bully).

    All in all, it was an awesome issue and I genuinely hope they have a plan going forward with Jean. I'm not sure where it will lead, but hopefully we will be done with the Phoenix denials. She's been the Phoenix too many times after the DPS to still be in denial to her connection. As much as I would have loved a definitive explanation I am beyond pleased with how the issue turned out.

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