Bishop: War College limited series announced

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

Oooof, that cover is next level of random cringe, lol.

[gonnagiveittoya]

Wonder how thisll play into the whole Avengers thing from the gala

[Rift]

Myaybe Surge wants to become a War Captain so she can send the X-Men out to die in fights whenever she wants.

[Master of Sound]

Myaybe Surge wants to become a War Captain so she can send the X-Men out to die in fights whenever she wants.

She will most likely start with Hellion ;-)

[Rift]

She will most likely start with Hellion ;-)

No, she'd want to kill him, herself.

[Triniking1234]

Who thought that Bishop-verse cover was a good idea?
Just use the regular black X-Men.

[Synch340]

I have no problem with the cast they have right now. Where's my favorite Academy X students like Hellion, Wind Dancer, Gentle, Indra, Anole, Onyx, Bling, Sprite, Wolf Cub ,Wallflower and Wither??? I'm sure they would make for some great War Captains.

[CoCoBandz]

Who thought that Bishop-verse cover was a good idea?
Just use the regular black X-Men.

The Kate looking Jean is pretty cute tho.

[Micabe]

It was the "forced upon the writers" point that I absolutely disagreed. Percy is not being FORCED to write Wolverine, he literally loves the character. Based on how much fun he was having with Cyclops in his Cable run before he got X-Men I'm also going to assume that Duggan genuinely enjoys writing the character and nobody is "forcing" him to write him and more importantly to write him well. To assume that whenever the traditional characters are in books that its editorial forcing them is just a bad faith argument. I'm looking at the current list of Marvel writers for ongoings and the majority of them are still white men, so again I'm confused as to where this narrative came from that Marvel is no longer hiring from that demographic or picking writers who highlight characters from that demographic.

And no I'm calling absolute BS on your point from the Coming Out thread. For example regarding Prodigy you stated, "Prodigy suddenly becoming gay/bi and crossdressing as Tinkerbelle…why exactly? And more importantly why now? What purpose does changing this character serve?". Prodigy has NOT had a lot of page time dedicated to his coming out. He briefly comes out as bi in the Gillen YA run and then in X-Factor he's sorta dating Speed (who isn't even on the team so we get VERY little interactions between the two of them). He spends the rest of his run doing his job investigating murders and then ends the run by being a hero and taking down a serial killer. What about his sexuality is overshadowing him as a hero? Or was the "focus on gayness" that he wore a feminine outfit in literally one issue?

It seems like your point about "Diversity is fine when it's done right," is really about when it's done in a way that makes you comfortable, which means that it's hardly there.

Your post has piqued my interest... I think it's about time I stop putting it off and actually read Young Avengers vol. #2 being that I have the series in my collection. Meanwhile, is Prodigy still a black former mutant?

[BobbysWorld]

Your post has piqued my interest... I think it's about time I stop putting it off and actually read Young Avengers vol. #2 being that I have the series in my collection. Meanwhile, is Prodigy still a black former mutant?

I mean, he's still black, but he's gone through the resurrection process and has had his powers back since pretty much the start of the Krakoan era. But during his Young Avengers appearances, he was a depowered mutant at that point.

[Ulysian_Thracs]

It was the "forced upon the writers" point that I absolutely disagreed. Percy is not being FORCED to write Wolverine, he literally loves the character. Based on how much fun he was having with Cyclops in his Cable run before he got X-Men I'm also going to assume that Duggan genuinely enjoys writing the character and nobody is "forcing" him to write him and more importantly to write him well. To assume that whenever the traditional characters are in books that its editorial forcing them is just a bad faith argument. I'm looking at the current list of Marvel writers for ongoings and the majority of them are still white men, so again I'm confused as to where this narrative came from that Marvel is no longer hiring from that demographic or picking writers who highlight characters from that demographic.

And no I'm calling absolute BS on your point from the Coming Out thread. For example regarding Prodigy you stated, "Prodigy suddenly becoming gay/bi and crossdressing as Tinkerbelle…why exactly? And more importantly why now? What purpose does changing this character serve?". Prodigy has NOT had a lot of page time dedicated to his coming out. He briefly comes out as bi in the Gillen YA run and then in X-Factor he's sorta dating Speed (who isn't even on the team so we get VERY little interactions between the two of them). He spends the rest of his run doing his job investigating murders and then ends the run by being a hero and taking down a serial killer. What about his sexuality is overshadowing him as a hero? Or was the "focus on gayness" that he wore a feminine outfit in literally one issue?

It seems like your point about "Diversity is fine when it's done right," is really about when it's done in a way that makes you comfortable, which means that it's hardly there.

I'm not sure what your complaint is supposed to be. You are very vocal that you want to spend your money on stories that include people who look like you doing stuff you are interested in. Great! I fully support that because it is exactly my point, too. I want to spend my money on stories that include people who look like me doing stuff I'm interested in. Like you, I don't demand that everyone look like me or that every part of the plot relate to the things I'm interested in. But I want an interesting, compelling story with at least some of it to relating to me, or why would I bother buying it? So, if we both want the same thing, it strikes me as nothing more than hypocrisy to make some kind of dichotomy based on our differences in immutable characteristics. (Like, if we only had a word for that...)

And you didn't actually refute that point that these 'woke' stories simply do not sell. Comic book readership is down epically from the 90s to the 2000s and beyond when things went full-on social justice oriented. Venture any guesses why they lost all those masses of fans? As I explained, I really don't see the logic in a business excluding the majority of their audience, particularly to include no name characters without their own built in fan base. I would understand it better if they chose the most prominent characters of whatever demo they were targeting, but this is just dumb from a business standpoint. Does anyone think this is going to sell?

And they do this all the time and then wonder why lines get cancelled and/or have to be rebooted to restore interest! Take Excalibur/Knights of X as a recent example. I'm not really a numbers person, but I recall reading somewhere the line ended with less than half (or closer to a third) of the readership/sales as the first issue. Is that supposed to be a success? I know in my firm if someone lost half their book of business in a year they would be shown the door in a heartbeat no matter what race, gender, or orientation they might be!

But the current X-Office doesn't even try to make things the average reader wants. Let's say you told the average casual comic book reader to check it out Excalibur/Knights of X. He googles it and finds an article.

Paragraph 1: It's the Arthurian Legend. People love that ****, right?

Average Comic Book Reader (ACBR): Yeah. I do kinda like that stuff. That's why its been done about 10,000 times.

Paragraph 2: Psych! It's actually Arthur and Merlin as the psychotic homicidal maniac bad guys and GIRL POWER!!! (What are you, like a misogynist or something?)

ACBR: Okay. I'm not so sure about that. But maybe...if it is done right. I'll finish the article at least.

Rest of Article: Like OMG! RACHEL AND BETSY KISSED! Wave the rainbow flag. Forget that the story was roundly considered **** and reads like second-rate fan fiction. They kissed and it's written by a 'they'. Do you know what this means for comics?????

And then they all pretend like they just don't get why its sales numbers flopped. Or even worse, they give the writer who lost half their audience another book to write. (I'm also pissed as a Disney stockholder because this division should be making a lot more money!)

Look, I know there are people out there that want to hear these stories, and I'm glad you're getting them. I really am. But this is the first book in a while to give even a little focus on my favorite generation, and it instead it went with three characters no one ever heard of for what for all intents and purposes looks like was to check boxes. I won't apologize for being disappointed about that.

Myaybe Surge wants to become a War Captain so she can send the X-Men out to die in fights whenever she wants.

Oh please. Like she'll ever graduate to an actual war captain? Armor was an actual X-Man, but everyone (the 'adults') seem to forget.

'Okay, gals. This is the 50-year course..."

[OG Storm]

Being woke didn't tank comics sales, comics have always been woke. Hell they were more deep with bigger stories in the 2000's. I get that some white men may feel neglected and feel entitled to having every story be about them but those days are over and they should be.

[Frobisher]

LOL, Marvel are having to try to diversify their audience precisely because for decades they spent decades with all the eggs in the one basket of the supposed core audience of young white men, and those all buggered off to read manga instead. No-one's stopped reading Avengers because other books they aren't interested in are also published.

[Ulysian_Thracs]

Being woke didn't tank comics sales, comics have always been woke. Hell they were more deep with bigger stories in the 2000's. I get that some white men may feel neglected and feel entitled to having every story be about them but those days are over and they should be.

You are right that comics have always had a very liberal bend. And, quite frankly, I loved that about them. Particularly X-Men--the persecution they faced despite being powerful and being heroic--have allowed me to see through eyes that are very different than mine. And while I will continue to disagree with Bobby and Kingdom on most things, I think comics can and should create a diverse world that speaks to as many people as possible.

But the difference is that the old comics immersed me in the story first and foremost. The purpose was always to tell a good story, not to bend the story around the 'wokeness' even if the theme has always been social justice. It is called subtext, people! First rule of creative writing: Show, don't tell! Knights of X is the glaring example for me of what not to do with comics. They took a really compelling IP in both the story (Arthurian Legend) and the characters (Betsy has always been awesome, but she lost me in the Kwannon stuff because I didn't read enough or close enough to know what the hell was going on with that), and wrapped it around this big LGBT ship of Betsy/Rachel. (Whom I don't actually think make a terrible couple. I just wanted to see a better story, damn it!)

The sales numbers don't lie. That wasn't what people came to see. You can liberal and even woke stories that will connect to people like me. But the story has to be good and come first.

[CGAR]

Nevermind this is a thread about Bishop War College.