Superman by Josh Williamson and Jamal Campbell Discussion & Spoilers

[Jon Clark]

How are people liking the series overall? I haven't checked it out yet. I like Williamson but find that he can often get basic really fast.

I'm liking it so far, but I'm also waiting for the tables to get turned on Lex. I wasn't a fan of Teflon Lex who remained a major player in Metropolis for decades after the Byrne reboot, always managing to escape real consequences for his actions. The current set-up is fun with Lex trying to run things from behind bars and SuperCorp to make Superman Lex's puppet. But I'm hoping there is a timeclock on this status quo with Lex eventually being knocked down a few pegs and being reverted to being just another inmate with no special privledges or control of what is going on.

[guanlishabi]

So based on the Doomsday Special, the Doomshounds are actually from hell?
I wonder how Brainiac got them.

[Jody Garland]

So based on the Doomsday Special, the Doomshounds are actually from hell?
I wonder how Brainiac got them.

When you think about it, Hell is kind of the ultimate bottled city... It kind of makes sense that Brainiac would take an interest in it eventually.

[Vordan]

So based on the Doomsday Special, the Doomshounds are actually from hell?
I wonder how Brainiac got them.

I thought that was Metal as hell (forgive the terrible pun). Doomsday actually infecting the very being of Hell is such a superhero concept I can’t help but love it. But I am wondering how Doosmday and Hell will tie into whatever big Brainiac story Williamson has planned.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Hope the Brainiac event doesn't end up to be another whimper. So far the build up, teases and world-building were really good in the SM books.

[Vordan]

Hope the Brainiac event doesn't end up to be another whimper. So far the build up, teases and world-building were really good in the SM books.

If PKJ is co-writing it with him then I am much more optimistic. Action 1050 was great, and Superman generally seems to be a character where Williamson exceeds his usual ceiling as a writer. On his own though I’m more nervous, he’s 0 for 2 with events thus far.

[Frontier]

Hope the Brainiac event doesn't end up to be another whimper. So far the build up, teases and world-building were really good in the SM books.

I'm hoping it's more like his Flash "events" than his wider DCU or Batman ones.

[Mantis-Ray]

If PKJ is co-writing it with him then I am much more optimistic. Action 1050 was great, and Superman generally seems to be a character where Williamson exceeds his usual ceiling as a writer. On his own though I’m more nervous, he’s 0 for 2 with events thus far.

Well hopefully PKJ possibly also writing the event helps.

Hell it could even be a reverse Gotham War where the writers actually produce a decent story.

[Last Son of Krypton]

If PKJ is co-writing it with him then I am much more optimistic. Action 1050 was great, and Superman generally seems to be a character where Williamson exceeds his usual ceiling as a writer. On his own though I’m more nervous, he’s 0 for 2 with events thus far.

I feel Williamson is better than his predecessors (Snyder/Johns) at connecting subplots across multiple books, but, imo, all DC events and crossovers (no matter who wrote them) sucked since Williamson became the architect of the whole line.

[Vordan]

I feel Williamson is better than his predecessors (Snyder/Johns) at connecting subplots across multiple books, but, imo, all DC events and crossovers (no matter who wrote them) sucked since Williamson became the architect of the whole line.

Yeah that’s a fair assessment. Don’t think most people rate the Scott Snyder era very highly either, the first Metal is well regarded but Death Metal didn’t have the same enthusiasm. Really the last time DC had a successful “architect” was Johns during the New 52, his JL was the last time the book felt like there was an “event” team title. I don’t know what they can do to fix that, my hunch is that the editorial lineup bears a lot of the blame. Ben Abernathy oversees the main event books and the Bat books, neither of which have been good for a while now.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Yeah that’s a fair assessment. Don’t think most people rate the Scott Snyder era very highly either, the first Metal is well regarded but Death Metal didn’t have the same enthusiasm. Really the last time DC had a successful “architect” was Johns during the New 52, his JL was the last time the book felt like there was an “event” team title. I don’t know what they can do to fix that, my hunch is that the editorial lineup bears a lot of the blame. Ben Abernathy oversees the main event books and the Bat books, neither of which have been good for a while now.

Scott Snyder's idea of connectivity was Lex Luthor showing up in some series to enhance bad guys during the Year of the Villain event. Johns is the superior events-writer, but I didn't feel much connectivity in the wider DCU outside of tie-ins when he was in charge. Williamson develops subplots across multiple books and franchises (like Waller's plan or the Lian Harper mystery started in the Catwoman book) and so far he is doing a good job with it, imo. He only needs better-written events to cap or start DC storylines.

[Frontier]

Scott Snyder's idea of connectivity was Lex Luthor showing up in some series to enhance bad guys during the Year of the Villain event. Johns is the superior events-writer, but I didn't feel much connectivity in the wider DCU outside of tie-ins when he was in charge. Williamson develops subplots across multiple books and franchises (like Waller's plan or the Lian Harper mystery started in the Catwoman book) and so far he is doing a good job with it, imo. He only needs better-written events to cap or start DC storylines.

Oh man, Year of the Villain...that feels like ages ago. I don't even know how I feel about it now.

[Vordan]

Scott Snyder's idea of connectivity was Lex Luthor showing up in some series to enhance bad guys during the Year of the Villain event. Johns is the superior events-writer, but I didn't feel much connectivity in the wider DCU outside of tie-ins when he was in charge. Williamson develops subplots across multiple books and franchises (like Waller's plan or the Lian Harper mystery started in the Catwoman book) and so far he is doing a good job with it, imo. He only needs better-written events to cap or start DC storylines.

On the other hand the whole Superman/Wonder Woman romance spun directly out of JL, which was a big deal during the New 52, and didn’t his pre-Flashpoint events have a big impact on books? I think his New 52 tenure being more self-contained had more to do with Didio wanting stuff to be more standalone. Yeah Williamson’s biggest problem is he keeps stretching himself too thin and struggles to pull off events. Think he works better on events when he has other people to help him, or maybe Superman is just an exception for him, since Action 1050 was a great read that handled the secret identity being restored as best as you possibly could.

Oh man, Year of the Villain...that feels like ages ago. I don't even know how I feel about it now.

Tynion’s Hell Arisen mini is a shockingly great Lex Luthor story, as is that Luthor YOTV one shot. Glad we got those at least, but Snyder’s problem as an architect is he really only cares about Batman. He likes the DCU but he only loves Batman. Even his “Wonder Woman” event was all about evil Batmen again. To pull off being an architect you gotta either have a huge epic story that does require everyone (Hickman doesn’t really care about the wider Marvel Universe since he was mostly a DC fanboy growing up, but he knows how to do epics), or you need to be an encyclopedic fanboy who loves all the Gluppo Shittos and has ideas for what to do with them like Johns or Morrison.

[Last Son of Krypton]

On the other hand the whole Superman/Wonder Woman romance spun directly out of JL, which was a big deal during the New 52, and didn’t his pre-Flashpoint events have a big impact on books? I think his New 52 tenure being more self-contained had more to do with Didio wanting stuff to be more standalone. Yeah Williamson’s biggest problem is he keeps stretching himself too thin and struggles to pull off events. Think he works better on events when he has other people to help him, or maybe Superman is just an exception for him, since Action 1050 was a great read that handled the secret identity being restored as best as you possibly could.

Hmm, maybe we should consider both Johns and DiDio as DC co-architects of that time. DiDio wanted a loose continuity with DC-You but changed his mind later (you may can find more quotes than the one below) and Rebirth was meant to be more connected, also his 5G was a 5-Year long mega-arc/event mapped out in advance.

Anyway, my memory of that era (Johns/DiDio's) were multiple teases or subplots left unresolved, plans being made on the fly and changing every few months. I stopped caring to speculate what they were cooking because shit likely wouldn't materialize.

"I went and explained to people why I hated Infinity War. The reason why I hated Infinity War was because they were doing comics better than comics were doing. They were telling character stories. They had big epic adventure. They were doing emotional arcs for the characters. It was a real sense of continuity, crossover and creativity going on in a movie that we should have been doing in comics.

That we were being out done by a movie. And that should never be this case. So from my standpoint, that became a huge challenge for us a creators, as comic book publishers, because as soon as we see that territory of the continuity, and the connected tissue and the immersive universe and the epicness of our storytelling, and we give that up to any other medium, then we become irrelevant, and that’s the last thing we want to see."

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCZ0_Ox-tzs

[Frontier]

I remember the old "story over continuity" days of DCYou.