Fall of X

[BobbysWorld]

Actually, I believe that was the Biblical Nimrod, who built the Tower of Babel.....

[Hulkout42]

I wish Hickman had gotten to tell this story instead of worse writers playing around in Krakoa not doing anything. Shame

That's mainly why i want Krakoa to end, they have just ruined it for me with the exception of Ewing and whoever wrote Sabertooth...who i hope they write the follow up.

[Ultramega1]

I think our Omega aka Karima is still in there somewhere under the future omega program

If course she is. Omega is a great character because they can make as evil as they want and basically have a built in escape hatch to write her out when they are done with by having Karima take back her body or something else like that. It’s easy to reverse.

[Ultramega1]

That's mainly why i want Krakoa to end, they have just ruined it for me with the exception of Ewing and whoever wrote Sabertooth...who i hope they write the follow up.

Sabertooth was a huge breath of fresh air and to me shows the big problem with krakoa in general. The X-men and mutants are usually at war with themselves and that leads to interesting conflict. It’s why so many people like magneto and apocalypse because they agree with their points of view and enjoy the conflict.

If all the mutants agree on the solution and the only remaining opposition are killer robots and racists than it’s not a very nuanced story is it? Which is why so much of krakoa is about how to fight and systems of defense rather than morality because there is no nuance to be found. You are either are an ally of the mutants or a racist. And that’s not fun.

Sabertooth reminded us that even now at the hight of their power the mutants are still people and their systems are flawed. You don’t have to like them! They could be wrong in how they are doing things. It’s a topic that needs be there more

[dragon1440]

Sabertooth was a huge breath of fresh air and to me shows the big problem with krakoa in general. The X-men and mutants are usually at war with themselves and that leads to interesting conflict. It’s why so many people like magneto and apocalypse because they agree with their points of view and enjoy the conflict.

If all the mutants agree on the solution and the only remaining opposition are killer robots and racists than it’s not a very nuanced story is it? Which is why so much of krakoa is about how to fight and systems of defense rather than morality because there is no nuance to be found. You are either are an ally of the mutants or a racist. And that’s not fun.

Sabertooth reminded us that even now at the hight of their power the mutants are still people and their systems are flawed. You don’t have to like them! They could be wrong in how they are doing things. It’s a topic that needs be there more

Remember that the X-Men started and always will be a metaphor for bigotry. It's very true to life in that your either a racist or not. In the real world there is no gray area. Either you have racist beliefs or not. And therefore you say it's not nuanced. That's because it still is reflecting real life bigotry and the fact that there is no room for nuances in racism. People treat the X-Men as stories and try to separate it from the metaphor of bigotry. It simply cannot be done. X-Men is to antibigotry as America is to apple pie.

[Frobisher]

Not sure I’m buying this “no grey area in real life” theory. Sounds a bit like the guy who used to say “you’re either with us or against us”.

[Devaishwarya]

I love some things that should be hated. I hate some things that should be loved. But mainly...I fall somewhere in between depending on the situation, topic, circumstance and my own damn mind/perspective.

So yes, there are certainly grey areas in real life.

[Zelena]

Remember that the X-Men started and always will be a metaphor for bigotry. It's very true to life in that your either a racist or not. In the real world there is no gray area. Either you have racist beliefs or not. And therefore you say it's not nuanced. That's because it still is reflecting real life bigotry and the fact that there is no room for nuances in racism. People treat the X-Men as stories and try to separate it from the metaphor of bigotry. It simply cannot be done. X-Men is to antibigotry as America is to apple pie.

Why couldn’t the X-men possess some bigotry, too? They have never been without flaws…

[Devaishwarya]

Do we have to dredge up the "beauty-full mutants vs the ugly mutants" topic, again? Claremont already did a pretty good job of highlighting the internal flaws with his and Smith's Morlock storyline back in the day and then later with the Mutant Massacre event.

[dragon1440]

Not sure I’m buying this “no grey area in real life” theory. Sounds a bit like the guy who used to say “you’re either with us or against us”.

For some things, like racism (which the X-Men is metaphor for) there is no grey area. If your not part of the solution your part of the problem. Period. Say you have racist views without saying you have racist views.

[dragon1440]

I love some things that should be hated. I hate some things that should be loved. But mainly...I fall somewhere in between depending on the situation, topic, circumstance and my own damn mind/perspective.

So yes, there are certainly grey areas in real life.

For some things. Racism and bigotry there is no grey area. PERIOD.

[Grunty]

Do we have to dredge up the "beauty-full mutants vs the ugly mutants" topic, again? Claremont already did a pretty good job of highlighting the internal flaws with his and Smith's Morlock storyline back in the day and then later with the Mutant Massacre event.

Arguably, the much more important topic is the massive natural inequality within mutantkind thanks to the lottery nature of their randomized super powers (which also makes them a very flawed evolutionary concept).

While natural occuring physical and mental advantages and disadvantages between humans do create a certain amount of inequality, it's relative small scale compared to the inequality created by the social constructs of posssession and ownership of material and immaterial goods.

With mutants and their meta physical powers however we can observe a massive spectrum of physical and mental advantages which far outclasses any that mere human bodies could ever create.

Put another way.
Anyone human can be born a vagrant and potentialy become a king, but if someone is born a "Projector" they can never become a "Magneto", because the upper limit of their meta physical powers are close to fixed.

[Sutekh]

Put another way.
Anyone human can be born a vagrant and potentialy become a king, but if someone is born a "Projector" they can never become a "Magneto", because the upper limit of their meta physical powers are close to fixed.

Yeah, that does kind of intrigue me. We read the adventures of the dozen or so Omega mutants on the planet, but there are possibly hundreds of thousands more like Artie or Beak, who did not win the 'hot chicks with superpowers' lottery.

And while a group like the Inhumans might get all precious about the 'hand of Terrigen choosing what is needed' or some such religious stuff, but for mutants, it might be more likely that some or many might totally subscribe to the notion of swapping X-genes around, so that those who did not win the powers lottery can trade up to something cooler.

And Sinister might even consider himself a trend-setter, having given himself an X-gene before all the cool kids were doing it. The jerk.

[Ultramega1]

Nimrod only ever wanted to be a construction worker in New York City.

I do like how the new origin keeps that in continuity and actually makes that situation more logical with the reveal nimrod is based on a human being that was clever

[Ultramega1]

Remember that the X-Men started and always will be a metaphor for bigotry. It's very true to life in that your either a racist or not. In the real world there is no gray area. Either you have racist beliefs or not. And therefore you say it's not nuanced. That's because it still is reflecting real life bigotry and the fact that there is no room for nuances in racism. People treat the X-Men as stories and try to separate it from the metaphor of bigotry. It simply cannot be done. X-Men is to antibigotry as America is to apple pie.

But the most famous X-men stories are never actually about mutants fighting racists. It’s about mutants fighting themselves. I think the only story where it was racist vs X-men that has been consistently considered a classic was “god loves man kills”. The X-men are just more interesting fighting each other.