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  1. #76
    Braddock Isle JB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncanny X-Man View Post
    I agree that these pages are haunting, terrifying even. You had the feeling the stakes were incredibly high... and they haven't even unleashed the Fury yet! Also love that they're showing Forbidden Planet in Soho/London as I was just there on Saturday
    That's so cool! I wasn't sure if Forbidden Planet was still open so thanks for that confirmation. I often wondered if some of the London scenes were fairly accurate while reading. There's another comic store panel coming up with a nice homage to Claremont.

    Terrifying indeed. Moore hit the ground running and didn't let up. I love how this was the birth of Betsy's psychic abilities and how they develop over time, even into sorta TK. Her precognition was used fairly often too and not just mentioned in passing. I would LOVE for that ability to be revisited.
    "Danielle... I intend to do something rash and violent." - Betsy Braddock
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  2. #77
    Astonishing Member Panic's Avatar
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    That was the old Forbidden Planet store in Denmark Street. Davis also puts it in the New Mutans Annual #2, where the Impossible Man and Warlock are fighting (Warlock mimics Captain Britain), IIRC. I visited it a couple of times in the Eighties, but they moved to a bigger place elsewhere in London.
    Last edited by Panic; 10-17-2022 at 10:08 AM.

  3. #78
    Braddock Isle JB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    That was the old Forbidden Planet store in Denmark Street. Davis also puts it in the New Mutans Annual #2, where the Impossible Man and Warlock are fighting (Warlock mimics Captain Britain), IIRC. I visited it a couple of times in the Eighties, but they moved to a bigger place elsewhere in London.
    I like these tidbits of information. They add that much more to the stories and help shape their history in a way.
    "Danielle... I intend to do something rash and violent." - Betsy Braddock
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  4. #79
    Astonishing Member Panic's Avatar
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    I always think it's impressive how well Moore and Davis used the 8 page episodes, because it really isn't much to play with. This is an unusually fight-free chapter, with the only action being Slaymaster killing Betsy's psi-division colleagues. The comic was a monthly, so those 8 pages were it for a whole month (the rest of the magazine was made up of Daredevil and Spider-Man reprints, plus sometimes a Night Raven text story (Moore wrote some great stuff for these, well worth reading if you can find them), and an article or two).

    The intro with the execution at the mind-reading act is very reminiscent of a scene from an episode of UK TV show The New Avengers which had been broadcast some years before, and I suspect Moore was a fan - the bit next issue where Slaymaster studies Brian carefully before attacking is also similar to a scene from another episode of TNA (though that I think was itself influenced by Leone's westerns).

  5. #80
    Braddock Isle JB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    I always think it's impressive how well Moore and Davis used the 8 page episodes, because it really isn't much to play with. This is an unusually fight-free chapter, with the only action being Slaymaster killing Betsy's psi-division colleagues. The comic was a monthly, so those 8 pages were it for a whole month (the rest of the magazine was made up of Daredevil and Spider-Man reprints, plus sometimes a Night Raven text story (Moore wrote some great stuff for these, well worth reading if you can find them), and an article or two).

    The intro with the execution at the mind-reading act is very reminiscent of a scene from an episode of UK TV show The New Avengers which had been broadcast some years before, and I suspect Moore was a fan - the bit next issue where Slaymaster studies Brian carefully before attacking is also similar to a scene from another episode of TNA (though that I think was itself influenced by Leone's westerns).
    I truly love these nuggets of info, potential references and backstory. I'll see if I can find some Night Raven, thank you.

    I really appreciate you mentioning the 8 page format because it helps frame what we're showing here and why these stories are important imo. Captain Britain's initial run averaged 7-8 pages and that was launched by Claremont and Trimpe. (Yes, you guys... Claremont was executing great stories in 8 pages. Caption boxes galore.) Then as you mention, Brian and co-stars moved to various anthologies where they had to share space with big names like Daredevil, Hulk, and Spider-Man. Brian, and Betsy, were brand new characters competing against American heavyweights. From what I can tell, Brian was an instant star and though Claremont created her, it was Moore that brought Betsy to that next level.

    Moore and Davis took that 8 page format, wrestled it to the ground and made it theirs. They delivered incredible work - every page and panel oozed with personality, intrigue, and emotion. I devoured their work then went back to read it again. By the time Delano got his hands on the twins, they got bumped up to a whopping 11 pages! LOL! Brian and Betsy Braddock were blessed to be handled by writers that kept them going through the years and through so many magazine changes. That's a testament to the power of who they are and it's something I believe readers of all ages can appreciate. I will forever be grateful to Claremont for bringing them into the major mainstream when they could have simply disappeared.

    A question for you and anyone reading the thread - which writers today do you think could pull off an 8 page format? Who could handle such limited space and deliver timeless work? Right off the top of my head I would say Al Ewing could do it. Of course Claremont as well since he did it successfully for so long.
    Last edited by JB; 10-17-2022 at 01:04 PM.
    "Danielle... I intend to do something rash and violent." - Betsy Braddock
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  6. #81
    Astonishing Member Panic's Avatar
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    I'm not sure. That 8 page format requires you to pack in a lot, and it obviously helps if you have a good artist. If you look at that last page that you put up, it is absolutely crammed with information - for starters, Moore manages to tell us Betsy has purple hair (the comic was black and white), that she's a fashion model, that Brian has always been out of it when it comes to fashion (he's the introverted twin), that Betsy doesn't know about Brian's adventures of the last few years (Black Knight and Otherworld, Earth 238), that she's a telepath and a precog working for S.T.R.I.K.E., and that S.T.R.I.K.E. has been taken over by the Vixen. Now that's a lot of information, but it doesn't feel like a forced infodump.

    I suspect any good writer could do it with a bit of practice, but it's definitely a different mindset from today's deconstructed stories. Claremont worked with a similar page count in the backup stories in Classic X-Men.

    Back to the issue in question, I notice that Betsy's hair is noticeably darker than it's been drawn in her US appearances (except during the Kwannon years), and Brian's hair is actually styled in a similar fashion (pushed back, no parting). I assume it's to emphasise the twin thing.

  7. #82
    Braddock Isle JB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    I'm not sure. That 8 page format requires you to pack in a lot, and it obviously helps if you have a good artist. If you look at that last page that you put up, it is absolutely crammed with information - for starters, Moore manages to tell us Betsy has purple hair (the comic was black and white), that she's a fashion model, that Brian has always been out of it when it comes to fashion (he's the introverted twin), that Betsy doesn't know about Brian's adventures of the last few years (Black Knight and Otherworld, Earth 238), that she's a telepath and a precog working for S.T.R.I.K.E., and that S.T.R.I.K.E. has been taken over by the Vixen. Now that's a lot of information, but it doesn't feel like a forced infodump.

    I suspect any good writer could do it with a bit of practice, but it's definitely a different mindset from today's deconstructed stories. Claremont worked with a similar page count in the backup stories in Classic X-Men.

    Back to the issue in question, I notice that Betsy's hair is noticeably darker than it's been drawn in her US appearances (except during the Kwannon years), and Brian's hair is actually styled in a similar fashion (pushed back, no parting). I assume it's to emphasise the twin thing.
    Moore had a way of cramming so much into a limited amount of space and yet gave you great visuals for your imagination to play with. I personally would like to see anthologies make a bit of a comeback especially in the current Krakoan era with so many characters.

    Ha, I didn't even catch the similar hairstyle between the twins until you said it. I love it! There's a few panels throughout where their noses were drawn very similar to show that relation as well. And yeah the purple in these pages is pretty dark, like a royal purple. I'm a big fan of the lighter shades, the lavender/lilac family, that's been used over the years.

    https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/upl...znVoAM2Z9P.jpg

    Probably more lavender since that leans towards purple more. The color on the cover for the new series looks great.
    "Danielle... I intend to do something rash and violent." - Betsy Braddock
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  8. #83
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    Is Meggan Braddock the only X-Woman who has naturally given birth to a child on Earth-616 -- that's still alive that is?
    Last edited by Micabe; 10-18-2022 at 02:08 AM.

  9. #84
    Extraordinary Member Master of Sound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micabe View Post
    Is Meggan Braddock the only X-Woman who has naturally given birth to a child on Earth-616 -- that's still alive that is?
    Layla gave birth to Davey and they are still around.
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  10. #85
    Braddock Isle JB's Avatar
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    A reminder of where we left off...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post






    "Danielle... I intend to do something rash and violent." - Betsy Braddock
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  11. #86
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    Stay tuned...

    Slaymaster is a wicked villain, and his encounters with Brian have already been brutal. Now this is the first time Betsy encounters him.

    Being in psi-link with the others, these deaths were especially traumatic for her as we can see. She was still in the early stages of using her powers with little training. In fact, one could probably make the argument that Betsy ranks below several of the other mutant telepaths in power in part because of the early psychic attacks and trauma she endured. Her mind has been a target for a long time.
    Last edited by JB; 10-18-2022 at 06:41 AM.
    "Danielle... I intend to do something rash and violent." - Betsy Braddock
    Krakoa, Arakko, and Otherworld forever!

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master of Sound View Post
    Layla gave birth to Davey and they are still around.
    Good point. And would Cable count? He's been dead a lot but he's technically alive.
    "Danielle... I intend to do something rash and violent." - Betsy Braddock
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  13. #88
    Astonishing Member Panic's Avatar
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    Moore tended to use Betsy's precog ability as a dramatic device to build up tension, which was very effective (not to dissimilar to the precognitive warnings that Buffy Summers used to get in some episodes of Buffy the Vampire Slayer). All the psi-division people were portrayed more in the vein of technical staff rather than field agents (rather like Fitz and Simmons in the early seasons of the Agents of Shield show), not trained for any kind of combat at all. Moore does give Betsy a strong personality, however, and it becomes notable as the episode progresses that she is the more dominant personality in her relationship with Tom.

    The bit where CB walks into the comic shop and confidently tells the disguised Slaymaster that he's in trouble, only to be met with the unexpected reveal of Slaymaster's true identity, is a small example of a theme that runs right through the CB strip from the moment Moore comes on board as writer to Davis's last issue: what I call "the rug-pull". A character feels he/she/they have the upper hand and are overconfident, only to have the situation flip on them suddenly. The first page Moore wrote does this with Saturnyne and Brian celebrating having given the push to Earth 238, only for Jaspers to unleash his power and turn everything to hell.

    Next issue Saturnyne dismisses Captain Britain's failure to stop the Fury as being down to him being an amateur, only to see her own attack met with similar disinterest by the monster.

    To be lazy and quote myself from an older thread: The Captain Britain strip was written to the idea that no-one was perfect. You see a pattern develop: anyone that's over-confident in their powers gets slapped-down by the writer eventually, no exceptions - Captain Britain, his allies, highly-trained professional mercenaries, the big bad-guys, even the enigmatic and all-knowing Merlyn himself -all suffer humiliating rug-pull moments. No-one was allowed to get too big for their boots.

    This runs all the way through the CB strip to the penultimate issue, where an overconfident Betsy underestimates Slaymaster only to get blinded moments later, and Slaymaster boasts that Captain Britain hasn't the strength to kill him right before Brian crushes his skull with a rock. Other moments from the top of my head include Brian threatening the Fury (who had just attacked Linda Mcquillan), only to choke on his words moments later as he realises just what he's up against, and Brian giving a big threatening speech to the Vixen, only to have gallons of water unceremoniously wash him into the sewer. Everybody suffers for their overconfidence in this strip.

  14. #89
    Braddock Isle JB's Avatar
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    Great post, Panic. The Earth 238 story with Jaspers is an incredible one and I can only imagine how it would look with coloring. The battle with the Fury, Jaspers. It was a wild ride and then Moore comes and hits us on the head all over again because the nightmare Brian just experienced on Earth 238 is unfolding on 616. The way Linda Mcquillan was written through all of that - her paralyzing fear, the uncontrollable tears, having been greatly traumatized once only to see it all happening again - her tortured journey was palpable.

    You're absolutely right about everyone getting slapped down and greatly humbled through the run. Great observation. Everyone gets put through the ringer and that's what made me respect these characters even more. They were literally tortured at times and in terms of Betsy, I now understand much better why by the time she joined the X-Men she had the strong desire to be a warrior. There were so many times that she lacked the proper training to fight back during these early years so it fits perfectly.
    "Danielle... I intend to do something rash and violent." - Betsy Braddock
    Krakoa, Arakko, and Otherworld forever!

  15. #90
    Astonishing Member Panic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jbenito View Post
    Great post, Panic. The Earth 238 story with Jaspers is an incredible one and I can only imagine how it would look with coloring.
    It's coloured in the Captain Britain Omnibus, I'm just not keen on the colouring job that was done on it (which dates back to X-Men Archives, the first US printing of the Moore CB stuff). When I ordered the omnibus I'd hoped that they'd recoloured it, but nope. I tend to gravitate to the black & white versions as that's how I originally read the Jaspers Warp arc, but I can see it might be jarring for someone who didn't.

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