Bill's speech about Superman in Kill Bill 2

[Agent Z]

Ok..why not wonder woman?

Wonder Woman hadn't been a big deal in pop culture for decades at that point.

[ironman2978]

Honestly a lot of people already said good ideas that were cancelled too soon. But the Birthright sequel and Cary Bates Superman movie were two top contenders for me.

[manwhohaseverything]

Wonder Woman hadn't been a big deal in pop culture for decades at that point.

really?And superman has been?the character had a good movie in the 70s...Another character that would probably fit is godzilla,kingkong..etc.The kaiju franchises...(Much better than ww..She's a godess..it would be condescending.)Honestly,anime has a bunch of em and tarantino is a big fan of ghost in the shell.

[The Frog Bros]

Bill's speech was not based on the popularity of Superman. He compared her to Superman because it fit his metaphor. In Bill's eyes, he compared Superman to Kiddo in that the "real" person was the mask. Their true selves are Superman and Kiddo the assassin and not Clark the reporter or Beatrix the homemaker.

[Agent Z]

really?And superman has been?the character had a good movie in the 70s...Another character that would probably fit is godzilla,kingkong..etc.The kaiju franchises...(Much better than ww..She's a godess..it would be condescending.)Honestly,anime has a bunch of em and tarantino is a big fan of ghost in the shell.

Superman had a popular tv show on the air at the time and still had plenty of good will from various adaptations. Wonder Woman didn't have a solo adaptation until the direct-to-DVD animated movie in 2009 which people then forgot about.

You are overthinking what was essentially a throw away conversation in a movie that isn't even about superheroes and was done more to drive home a point about two of the film's characters as opposed to saying anything about a comic character whom Tarantino has never talked about aside from saying he liked Superman Returns.

[manwhohaseverything]

Superman had a popular tv show on the air at the time and still had plenty of good will from various adaptations. Wonder Woman didn't have a solo adaptation until the direct-to-DVD animated movie in 2009 which people then forgot about.

You are overthinking what was essentially a throw away conversation in a movie that isn't even about superheroes and was done more to drive home a point about two of the film's characters as opposed to saying anything about a comic character whom Tarantino has never talked about aside from saying he liked Superman Returns.

That's exactly what i am saying..the movie wasn't about superheroes.Any character would have sufficed.Yet,he went for superman.So he atleast on somelevel wanted that to out there..the conversation.It was a talk about nature, specifically.Not just random thought.It was tied to the main character.

"You know what makes godzilla different from kong and other american monsters..godzilla spews beams and has disfigured thorny back..why is that? it's cause it's a reminder of humanity's destructive capability"

[Agent Z]

That's exactly what i am saying..the movie wasn't about superheroes.Any character would have sufficed.Yet,he went for superman.So he atleast on somelevel wanted that to out there..the conversation.It was a talk about nature, specifically.Not just random thought.It was tied to the main character.

It was talk that was relevant to the two characters having the conversation. It was not a decertation on Superman like you seem to think it is. You might as well ask why any movie mentions James Bond, Robin Hood, Godzilla or any other popular character. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[manwhohaseverything]

It was talk that was relevant to the two characters having the conversation. It was not a decertation on Superman like you seem to think it is. You might as well ask why any movie mentions James Bond, Robin Hood, Godzilla or any other popular character. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

wink wink references and this are different..wink wink references can be taken out. godzilla,robin hood or whatever character if referenced like superman here.It can't be taken out.Because of the relevance like you said.He could have chose any character.Yet,he chose superman.That conversation could be his interpretation of the duality and it could be very a valid take on the character.

Yes,you can why ask reference certain prexisting character,pop culture or socio-cultural figure or palimpsest was referenced.you will get either of two answers
1)pure enjoyment of audience (easter egg business)-example batman in ready player one
2)my story,character and theme needed a wider context(allegories and stuff like that).superman in irongiant

And,i am not the one denying the possibility of a cigar being a cigar.For us to truly know there is no direct evidence..

[Agent Z]

wink wink references and this are different..wink wink references can be taken out. godzilla,robin hood or whatever character if referenced like superman here.It can't be taken out.Because of the relevance like you said.He could have chose any character.Yet,he chose superman.That conversation could be his interpretation of the duality and it could be very a valid take on the character.

Yes,you can why ask reference certain prexisting character,pop culture or socio-cultural figure or palimpsest was referenced.you will get either of two answers
1)pure enjoyment of audience (easter egg business)-example batman in ready player one
2)my story,character and theme needed a wider context(allegories and stuff like that).superman in irongiant

And,i am not the one denying the possibility of a cigar being a cigar.For us to truly know there is no direct evidence..

That's exactly what you are doing.

[Alan2099]

To me, I thought that scene was meant more to tell us about Bill than it was Superman.

[godisawesome]

To me, I thought that scene was meant more to tell us about Bill than it was Superman.

I’m with you and the other guys along the same line here - it’s a line for Bill, not Tarantino himself.

…Having said that, I think it sticks with people and gets debated because, thanks to Tarantino being a good writer and grounding Bill’s line in a believable interpretation, it can be seen as a good “summation” of the older, Christopher Reeves-version of Clark Kent, and thus plays into the debates along those lines for Superman fans.

Since Bill is likely talking about the then most pre-eminent pop culture idea of Superman, Tarantino is pointing out that a fan (even if a twisted one) *could* see the Clark identity as pointless even by Superman except as a sort of mockery of humanity, and feel backed up by the movies and older comics in that.

And that likely irritates both fans of the older, Reeves-style Superman as an exaggeration and fans of the newer, more “human” Clark.

[Thor2014]

Clark Kent clearly was the mask pre-Crisis and should be. That's how Superman was before Byrne who humanized him way too much. Part of Super13thman's appeal is the outsider who has come to save his adopted planet. He's clearly operating on a higher level and "Clark" is his way of being incognito. This was clearly the case before 1985, look at Superman the Movie. Clark is not real, He's a cover.

[manwhohaseverything]

To me, I thought that scene was meant more to tell us about Bill than it was Superman.

That could be a case as well..