Man of Steel 2 Hunting For Writers; Abrams/Coates Fate Uncertain

[Ra-El]

Hadn't heard that. If true, that is director malfeasance. Destroy Superman and Clark/Lois over 5 films to let Superman shine in the final act of the last film? No wonder Superman is no longer a popular pop culture character. I really doubt Snyder did that and I'm not a Snyder fan.

The thing is, for all it's troubles Man of Steel was a promising start, imo, to what could have been a good Superman movie slate. But at some point Snyder was put on the position to spearhead the DCEU, he asked for Batman and got it, we know how it went after that.

I like to say that Man of Steel biggest flaw is BvS. Maybe if Snyder had less power, and had only Superman to work with, the character wouldn't get sideline like he was. WB should never have given so much power to a single director, when they realised where he was going with their universe it was too late.

[manwhohaseverything]

These are because you've grown up in (I did, too, to a degree) an era where DC doesn't know how to market Superman, and just kept pushing Batman because it's easy (and then tried to market Superman just as they did Batman, to disasterous results). Superman has charm for days, but that charm was poisoned by things like DKR, and the company was too stupid to put together it's own counter-narrative to make sure that cynicism didn't take over the general thoughts on the character. That said, however, Superman still enjoys a lot of support - especially if you weed out the generic comics crowd. It honestly amazed me how many "normies" like Superman - and shows that, against all odds, Superman is stronger than some may think.

You can't fault batman for people liking the character(even and especially children..). Company's push is a valid reason.Company cannot control population or even cultures around the world..Cynism is just a buzzword being thrown around.. People like good natured characters.Proof is tons of characters from any story telling medium.Generally,superman is polarising even with normies is what i get..

Also would like to add that siegel and shuster's superman would have more in common with diogenes..he would be mocking alexander.(keyword lex)

“Please move to the side a few paces. You are blocking the sun,”
If it makes you feel better..Superrman i like.

[JAK]

Cavill is being trashed talked by some at Reddit and other places. That is not called for, but it is driven by a belief, which I share, that giving Cavill this sequel will put the final nail in the coffin of the Superman film franchise. Already there is controversy. Just wait - remember the controversies prior to the BvsS release. That Cavill was getting sidelined - Snyder denied that, but it was true. Cavill got 41 lines to Affleck's 140 or so. Batman got the best FX - the car chase for instance.

If it is, it'll be this version of the ip - not Superman in general. I see these patterns enough and it actually gives me more hope for things down the line than I would have had even 10 years ago. I do expect some sidelining due to The Rock, but likely no one else. As with anything, it all depends on the execution - and as long as I don't read about Snyder coming back, I'm generally pleased with how this is all going so far. I'll know more after seeing BA.

What could happen is WBD starts to have doubts about Cavill's ability to carry the film by himself - this is the reason WB followed up MOS with BvsS - to get Affleck in there to boost the film's chances. WBD "suggests" others make appearances - Batman, WW, whomever. At that point Cavill might walk. It is very early yet, and it is not out of the question that the film gets derailed.

Oh, it absolutely could happen, no question about it.

Hadn't heard that. If true, that is director malfeasance. Destroy Superman and Clark/Lois over 5 films to let Superman shine in the final act of the last film? No wonder Superman is no longer a popular pop culture character. I really doubt Snyder did that and I'm not a Snyder fan.

I do tend to buy it, and here's why: it ties well into the whole "comics heroes as Greek Myth" thing that Snyder likes to go on about. There's plenty of director malfeasance in MoS and BvS to go around, lol.

The thing is, for all it's troubles Man of Steel was a promising start, imo, to what could have been a good Superman movie slate. But at some point Snyder was put on the position to spearhead the DCEU, he asked for Batman and got it, we know how it went after that.

I like to say that Man of Steel biggest flaw is BvS. Maybe if Snyder had less power, and had only Superman to work with, the character wouldn't get sideline like he was. WB should never have given so much power to a single director, when they realised where he was going with their universe it was too late.

MoS is one of those movies that is determined by what comes after it. It's not particularly good on it's own (I'd say it's poor, myself), but had the potential of looking a whole lot better in hindsight if things had been properly set up. Instead, they coubled down on the worst aspects and forwent any decent sense of character growth for the character who's back this all was supposed to sit on. WB was too busy drooling over the MCU to notice that the person they thought could do it was running things into the ground - and by the time they did, all they could do was hide in a corner and attempt damage control (which, again in hindsight, I should have known would be hilariously bad.. this company has no brain of it's own, seemingly no matter who runs it).

You can't fault batman for people liking the character(even and especially children..). Company's push is a valid reason.Company cannot control population or even cultures around the world..Cynism is just a buzzword being thrown around.. People like good natured characters.Proof is tons of characters from any story telling medium.Generally,superman is polarising even with normies is what i get..

I'm not faulting Batman. He should be popular. I'm faulting WB/DC for being so exceptionally piss-poor at promoting anything that isn't basically ready-built for angsty teens that they didn't just give up; they actively made it worse - for the character, and themselves. The proof is comparing him to Cap in the MCU. Before the Iron Man film, these characters had popularity but *never* in the realm of Superman or DC among most regular folks (the 90s helped with cartoons, to be fairl). But DC/WB sat on their butts because they didn't see what they had even as the MCU built a behemoth out of ashes (at one time around then, DC could literally have bought Marvel... which seems like a crazy concept now). If WB did (with Superman) half of what the MCU did with Cap, this would be an entirely different conversation. DC and WB have acted ashamed of aspects of Superman that the MCU embraced, and Cap is all the better for it. When an IP's parent company acts like that IP is the problem, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Superrman i like.

I like that, too. My point is that Superman was king of the mountain for a LOOOOOONG time, and still enjoys popularity, but there's a lot of work to be done to get him back where he belongs. I do, however, think it's possible - and that the problem not an inherent part of the character.

[bat39]

They're searching for a writer. By the time they find one and go through writes and rewrites it'll be next summer. The timing works as Cavill is filming Witcher 4/5 from mid 2023 to mid 2024. That gives them plenty of time to complete a shooting script, casting and pre-production. They go into actual production mid-2024 for a film release in 2025 - most likely Christmas.

In the minority on this but I don't want Supergirl in the film. She is being inserted to set up a Supergirl solo trilogy. That means she gets serious screen time in the sequel to the detriment of core characters like Jimmy and Perry and others who were not developed by Snyder. I want a Superman solo not a Superman team up. The other issue is Cavill's performance as Superman. He was underwhelming in the Snyder films while Calle is supposedly great in the Flash per audience reactions. If Cavill does not step up his game Calle could outshine him. It could end up like BvsS where WB execs wanted more Batman and less Superman after seeing early cuts of the film. This is why the director is critical. McQuarrie got a solid performance out of Cavill in MI6 and would be perfect in the role, but it sounds like he won't be available.

Adams likely chooses not to return which paves the way for a recast. A number of the MOS actors won't return so recasts of most could happen. Absolutely a recast of Luthor if he has a part in the film. A big question is does MOS2 (it won't be called that - I predict it will be called Superman) fit in after MOS but before BvS/JL or after BvS/JL? Because in BvS Clark and Lois were living together and engaged. In JL Lois was pregnant at the end of the film. Hopefully they don't bring that baggage into the sequel. Leave it post MOS with Clark and Lois romantically attracted to each other but not tied down in a relationship. We'll see.

Honestly, at this point, the WB/DC management and upcoming film slate has been rebooted more times than the DCU itself

In terms of continuity, I guess this will be following from Whedon's JL, so Lois and Clark aren't expecting a kid.

One advantage of Cavill coming back is that continuity-wise we have a fairly clean slate, without having to go back to the origin. Superman is an established hero, married to (or engaged with) Lois, working at the Daily Planet as Clark Kent...and from there on pretty much anything's possible. Supergirl? Can be done. Brainiac? Can (and should) be done. I suppose Luthor would be a challenge without bringing Eisenberg back, unless they use Flashpoint to soft-reboot the DCEU and replace him. But frankly, I think its time for the Superman film franchise to give Luthor and Zod a rest!

Some takeaways:

It looks as if the DCEU will have 3 Batmen - like the MCU has 3 Spidermen. The Reeves' version, Batfleck and Keaton. Guessing that Keaton will be used in a Batman Beyond scenario.

What may be a DC Black Label will get Joker and a slew of other Bat villains with their own theatrical releases or streaming projects. The prequel comic to The Batman mentions Luthor so, with Reeve's getting more solos, will Luthor be brought over as a Batman villain? I'd love that as long as Eisenberg is not Lex.

DeLuca appears to be emerging as the defacto WBD Feige. Not a bad occurrence. He's a DC comics fan, was involved with the Suicide Squad films and loves Batman and Flash. This may be why Batman appears to be set to get a ton of content and The Flash sequel is already written - before the WW3 script is finished. To the end that WBD really does have a plan, its value as a company when sold goes up - in particular if Flash and Aquaman do a billion and BA comes in at north of 700 million with Shazam doing decent at 600 - 700 million.

Duane Johnson is right there in all these stories. Will he become the chief advisor to DeLuca on all things DC? There is speculation he could take on the Feige role, but he demurred when asked about it. Not a firm no. In any case The Rock/Black Adam seems set to supplant Affleck/Batman as the face of the DCEU. When WBD is sold it's a safe bet that Johnson goes over to the new company. Making that a part of the deal enhances WBD's value to potential buyers.

Speaking of DeLuca, it's guessed that no outsider wants the gig as it's likely temporary until the studio is sold/merged. The assumption has been Comcast would buy WBD, but Campea mentioned Netflix as a possibility. Netflix tried to purchase Paramount, but the deal fell through at the last minute.

God, what a mess!

The thing is, for all it's troubles Man of Steel was a promising start, imo, to what could have been a good Superman movie slate. But at some point Snyder was put on the position to spearhead the DCEU, he asked for Batman and got it, we know how it went after that.

I like to say that Man of Steel biggest flaw is BvS. Maybe if Snyder had less power, and had only Superman to work with, the character wouldn't get sideline like he was. WB should never have given so much power to a single director, when they realised where he was going with their universe it was too late.

I tend to agree with you, despite the fact that I'm in the minority here that probably likes BvS (though it had some serious flaws).

MOS was a really solid origin story for a contemporary reboot of Superman. Its a reboot that Superman sorely needed. I dunno if Henry Cavill is the future of the Superman franchise, but it certainly can't be Christopher Reeve (or someone imitating him)! I think Cavill did a phenomenal job as a tougher more 'realistic' take on the character who can potentially evolve into something resembling the classic version. Unfortunately, we never got the solo Superman movies that could have explored that evolution. But anyway, for better or worse, the end of Justice League sets up a more classic take on Superman that this new hypothetical sequel can build on.

[Vordan]

anyone who is a fan of #Superman should be happy the leadership at DC is being replaced. It is inexcusable for the man of steel to have been sitting on the sidelines for so many years. Heard David Zaslav wants Superman back in movie theaters asap. Which means it's happening.

https://twitter.com/colliderfrosty/s...3KvWEhlAa4XhpQ

Dude from Collider is claiming Zaslav is going to fast track MoS2. Not sure how reliable he is but Collider is one of the “upper trades” in terms of news (although still below THR and Variety).

[Last Son of Krypton]

If they found a writer and director, it could be out in 3/4 years.

But I'll believe this movie is happening for real only when I'll see the actors and director filming on set.

[Jeffrey2]

https://twitter.com/colliderfrosty/s...3KvWEhlAa4XhpQ

Dude from Collider is claiming Zaslav is going to fast track MoS2. Not sure how reliable he is but Collider is one of the “upper trades” in terms of news (although still below THR and Variety).

The earliest the film could be out is mid-2025. And that only if Netflix agrees not to film seasons 4 and 5 of Witcher back-to-back. Filming only season 4 means Cavill is tied up from June 2023 until late 2023. Filming on MOS2 in that case could commence in early 2024 but, given this will be a VX heavy film, the film would not be ready until summer 2025. If Netflix doesn't budge and they film back-to-back then we are looking at 2026 for an MOS2 release. Not exactly ASAP no matter how you cut it - by the time MOS2 comes out, if it does, Flash 3 will be close to a release.

[Monari]

Cavill being back and the JJ project dying are honestly the best news the Superman franchise has had in years. I never thought this day would come. I've bought tickets to Black Adam opening night just for the possible Cavill cameo, and I haven't been to the movies in two years.

[manwhohaseverything]

If they found a writer and director, it could be out in 3/4 years.

But I'll believe this movie is happening for real only when I'll see the actors and director filming on set.

Get steven Spielberg to direct et that wears glasses

[Monari]

IMO, Cavill lack the acting chops, the charisma, and the likability needed to pull off Superman. He's okay in other roles, but for my money, they would have been better served to move on and recast in favor of someone who has all those things, and is younger.

How much of that is Cavill and how much of it was Snyder? It's similar to what happened with Hayden Christensen and George Lucas in the prequels. I've seen enough of Cavill in other productions to give him the benefit of the doubt that when he's under a solid director who aligns with his own brighter vision of Superman, he'll really shine. I certainly found him better in the role than Routh, and while Hoechlin has charisma he doesn't give off a Superman vibe the way Cavill does, who looks and feels as though he literally stepped out of a comic book as Superman.

[DABellWrites]

I've asked this plenty of times already, but can anyone explain this idea of Cavill returning to do Superman as some good thing? Why? Because he didn't do a "traditional" smiling Superman? I just don't get it. I don't get the want for him to be Superman again.

[Vordan]

I've asked this plenty of times already, but can anyone explain this idea of Cavill returning to do Superman as some good thing? Why? Because he didn't do a "traditional" smiling Superman? I just don't get it. I don't get the want for him to be Superman again.

There’s plenty of people here who aren’t falling to their knees in jubilation at his return, myself included. I don’t know why you’re acting like everyone is totally in love with him. People who are happy have various reasons including:

1. They genuinely like his take and want to see more
2. They think he has what it takes to be a good Superman, it was just shitty directing and scripting that held him back
3. They don’t like the only alternatives WB was preparing (Coates/Abrams & MBJ), and would rather have Cavill over those
4. They just want to see Superman on the big screen again

Take your pick. I would rather have dropped Cavill & Coates/Abrams and gotten someone else myself. But hey since it seems he’s back, might as well hope for the best right? At this point I’d take an Aquaman tier Superman movie, something dumb and fun that makes a billion and would fund a bunch of more interesting Superman projects elsewhere.

[Jeffrey2]

I've asked this plenty of times already, but can anyone explain this idea of Cavill returning to do Superman as some good thing? Why? Because he didn't do a "traditional" smiling Superman? I just don't get it. I don't get the want for him to be Superman again.

Not as many people want Cavill back as you might think. Even on these boards about 25% want a recast and a brand-new film- not an MOS sequel. Go to other social media and those numbers are higher. Cavill is polarizing in the role and making a solo film with him is a major risk. The pushback on social media will be noticed by WBD.

Those who want Cavill back do so as he has the look. More than any other actor. But, as MOS proved, it takes more than "the look" to make a great Superman film. The actor needs a presence and charisma as well. Cavill does not have that. Also, Snyder and Cavill acolytes are in denial about the poor performance of MOS. The studio expected a billion. The film took in 668 million. The reviews were negative and Cavill's performance was panned as wooden. Then others explain Cavill's stone cold performance as due to poor directing by Snyder. Really? The more plausible explanation is that Cavill is miscast as Superman. Many in this latter group want to give Cavill a "chance" again. Those folks are taking a huge risk as if the next film disappoints the Superman film franchise is dead.

WB should have started over after MOS disappointed. Bring in Affleck for a Batman film. Instead, they tried to "fix" MOS by bringing in Affleck and pushing Cavill to the side. That didn't work and BvS was a disappointment. Still WB pushed ahead with JL which was a disaster. JL was weeks away from filming when BvS more or less tanked. The studio could have shut down JL.

Now, because of Johnson, WBD is going to try to fix things again with MOS and Cavill. MOS2 with possibly all the original cast. What sense does that make? What did Einstein say about doing the same thing over and over ...? MOS is not the foundation upon which to build the next Superman film. A fresh start with a recast Superman is the only way forward if a Superman film is to be successful. I'm fairly confident that MOS2 does not get made given the early controversy among fans over the film.

[Matt Rat]

1. They genuinely like his take and want to see more.

If they liked his take the first time, Man of Steel would have made a billion

[Vordan]

If they liked his take the first time, Man of Steel would have made a billion

This reply makes no sense. How many people there are who enjoy Cavill’s take isn’t what we’re discussing, I certainly wouldn’t argue that there are very many Snyder fans out there in terms of population, but they do exist. Their annoying hashtagging on social media is proof of that. Of the people who are happy that Cavill is back, a few of them were always fans of the way he played Superman and want more.