Man of Steel 2 Hunting For Writers; Abrams/Coates Fate Uncertain

[The Frog Bros]

For me, I neither hated nor loved Cavill. Frankly, I'm not exactly thrilled he's back, but not because I dislike him but because he's has his run and I'd personally rather see someone new in the role. At this point I think I'm more excited for the prospect of a new villain.

While I do prefer Hoechlin to Cavill, I don't think I'd want him on big screen either. I'm happy where he currently resides.

[Jeffrey2]

For me, I neither hated nor loved Cavill. Frankly, I'm not exactly thrilled he's back, but not because I dislike him but because he's has his run and I'd personally rather see someone new in the role. At this point I think I'm more excited for the prospect of a new villain.

While I do prefer Hoechlin to Cavill, I don't think I'd want him on big screen either. I'm happy where he currently resides.

Hoechlin has the Superman presence/charm down to a tee. Even in off-filming breaks when he's in suit and chatting with onlookers he nails it. And he's not even trying. That's the point - Hoechlin is perfectly natural in the role. Both as Clark and as Superman. Hoechlin will not be cast as Superman even if they don't go forward with MOS2. It'll be a new actor.

BTW, Flash is expected to be massive. Campea said a sequel is a given, the script is already written. Zaslav/WBD want an immediate turnaround with the sequel out two years later. The sequel may go into production in late 2023 - assuming Miller isn't in the clinker . Even then Campea named a few actors who could be Flash recasts. Grant Gustin is beloved as the TV Flash but Campea rightly said he won't get the nod. Just like Hoechlin wouldn't get Supes. If they did have to recast, there will be rush of young talented Hollywood actors vying for the role. Flash will become WBD's second most lucrative film franchise after Batman and ahead of Aquaman and Wonder Woman.

[Ra-El]

If the decision was mine, I would have recasted the role ages ago.

My ideal scenario would be Superman getting The Batman treatment, meaning the movie would be made by a talented filmmaker with a deep understand and love for the character, someone who doesn't believe theres something inherently wrong with Superman and try to fix, at the same time they wouldn't be bound by Donner. The movie would be about Superman first and foremost, no JL, no Batman, not even references to a wide DCU.

But, apparently the best we can hope getting close to having a more traditional Superman on theaters is Cavill, every other option I heard sounded like WBD wanting to use the name Superman but not the character itself, just the trademark.

So now, I hope they give to Superman The Suicide Squad treatment, giving the character to a filmmaker who will not feel bounded to what came before, and will give us a almost new version of the character, while preserving the same cast and not outright denying the previous movies.

[JAK]

I've asked this plenty of times already, but can anyone explain this idea of Cavill returning to do Superman as some good thing? Why? Because he didn't do a "traditional" smiling Superman? I just don't get it. I don't get the want for him to be Superman again.

Others have said it pretty well, at least from my perspective:

There’s plenty of people here who aren’t falling to their knees in jubilation at his return, myself included. I don’t know why you’re acting like everyone is totally in love with him. People who are happy have various reasons including:

1. They genuinely like his take and want to see more
2. They think he has what it takes to be a good Superman, it was just shitty directing and scripting that held him back
3. They don’t like the only alternatives WB was preparing (Coates/Abrams & MBJ), and would rather have Cavill over those
4. They just want to see Superman on the big screen again

Take your pick. I would rather have dropped Cavill & Coates/Abrams and gotten someone else myself. But hey since it seems he’s back, might as well hope for the best right? At this point I’d take an Aquaman tier Superman movie, something dumb and fun that makes a billion and would fund a bunch of more interesting Superman projects elsewhere.

I'm in camps 2 and 3. I HATED "Man of Steel." Hated it. If Snyder comes back, I'll flip so fast it'll make everyone's heads spin. But from what I've heard and the few scenes he's had that I've liked, Cavill seems to have a decent grasp of the character, and that's a good start. There's potential there, and especially since Brandon Routh got screwed over, I'd hate for the Superman franchise to just be a string of actors that were failed by the studio and directors. So that's a fifth reason, i guess?

Then others explain Cavill's stone cold performance as due to poor directing by Snyder. Really? The more plausible explanation is that Cavill is miscast as Superman. Many in this latter group want to give Cavill a "chance" again. Those folks are taking a huge risk as if the next film disappoints the Superman film franchise is dead.

Yes, really. Amy Adams was pretty bad in the Snyder films, too, and she's an amazing actress. The performance I expected from her is nowhere to be found, and that's on the script and the director. Why do people think that the director has no impact on the movie? They generally set the tone of the work environment and guide the actors to the performances they want out of them. That's especially true for a director like Snyder, who had a "vision" (such as it was, lol).

Is it possible he's still too wooden, overall? Sure. But there are moments in MoS where he's much more charismatic and charming - something like Reeve but with a bit more modern gravitas. But it's drowned in crap like "consider this mercy." A better script and a better director would make all the difference.

I'd have been fine with a recast, but this is ok. At least the studio heads now want to seemingly give it another shot - Superman on film was already dead under Hamada. This is at least something. And Superman is a large property - even damaged as it is. Win, lose, or draw, this won't kill Superman films. There's too much potential. The closest we'd have come to the Superman film franchise being dead would have been what they were looking at doing before this.

WB should have started over after MOS disappointed. Bring in Affleck for a Batman film. Instead, they tried to "fix" MOS by bringing in Affleck and pushing Cavill to the side. That didn't work and BvS was a disappointment. Still WB pushed ahead with JL which was a disaster. JL was weeks away from filming when BvS more or less tanked. The studio could have shut down JL.

Now, because of Johnson, WBD is going to try to fix things again with MOS and Cavill. MOS2 with possibly all the original cast. What sense does that make? What did Einstein say about doing the same thing over and over ...? MOS is not the foundation upon which to build the next Superman film. A fresh start with a recast Superman is the only way forward if a Superman film is to be successful. I'm fairly confident that MOS2 does not get made given the early controversy among fans over the film.

At the time, I certainly would have been happy if they scrapped things after MoS, that's for sure. WB should have never brought in Snyder in the first place, and Affleck is good but I don't see him sticking around for over a decade. But we'll see. That said, few thought Cavill was ever coming back in the first place (I thought people were trying, but wasn't sure it'd happen), so I think MoS2 has as good a shot as anything, at this point. What happens with Black Adam will be what seals the deal or kills the current plans. Though, having Dwayne Johnson in one's corner certainly doesn't hurt, lol.

If they liked his take the first time, Man of Steel would have made a billion

If that was true, "Batman Begins" would have made "The Dark Knight"'s box office. That stuff takes time to grow. If the movie after MoS had been even decent, whatever was in BvS's place would have done better. Box office numbers started high and dropped off sharply on BvS - which is, ironically, the reverse of what happened with JL. JL, weird as it was, had low turnout but less drop-off.

If the decision was mine, I would have recasted the role ages ago.

My ideal scenario would be Superman getting The Batman treatment, meaning the movie would be made by a talented filmmaker with a deep understand and love for the character, someone who doesn't believe theres something inherently wrong with Superman and try to fix, at the same time they wouldn't be bound by Donner. The movie would be about Superman first and foremost, no JL, no Batman, not even references to a wide DCU.

But, apparently the best we can hope getting close to having a more traditional Superman on theaters is Cavill, every other option I heard sounded like WBD wanting to use the name Superman but not the character itself, just the trademark.

So now, I hope they give to Superman The Suicide Squad treatment, giving the character to a filmmaker who will not feel bounded to what came before, and will give us a almost new version of the character, while preserving the same cast and not outright denying the previous movies.

I'd still like to see something like "The Superman" - and given that we have 3 Batmen, I don't see why we can't. They can work on that while they give Cavill another shot in the meantime.

[manwhohaseverything]

I've asked this plenty of times already, but can anyone explain this idea of Cavill returning to do Superman as some good thing? Why? Because he didn't do a "traditional" smiling Superman? I just don't get it. I don't get the want for him to be Superman again.

I want superman to go back to leaping over tall buildings and protecting the little guy and feeling like one..too bad we don't get what want all the time.

What happens with Black Adam will be what seals the deal or kills the current plans. Though, having Dwayne Johnson in one's corner certainly doesn't hurt, lol.

The movie has an uphill battle..It needs to make 600mil at the very least.I am personally rooting for it to be good and i get kick out of it.Cause the first promos made me feel like it's straight up fire.A superman out of time and in the modern world.kahndaq felt like magic version of metropolis.The rock being in cavill's corner would probably be determined by how much money this makes..

[bat39]

There’s plenty of people here who aren’t falling to their knees in jubilation at his return, myself included. I don’t know why you’re acting like everyone is totally in love with him. People who are happy have various reasons including:

1. They genuinely like his take and want to see more
2. They think he has what it takes to be a good Superman, it was just shitty directing and scripting that held him back
3. They don’t like the only alternatives WB was preparing (Coates/Abrams & MBJ), and would rather have Cavill over those
4. They just want to see Superman on the big screen again

Take your pick. I would rather have dropped Cavill & Coates/Abrams and gotten someone else myself. But hey since it seems he’s back, might as well hope for the best right? At this point I’d take an Aquaman tier Superman movie, something dumb and fun that makes a billion and would fund a bunch of more interesting Superman projects elsewhere.

Deal me in for all four!

Honestly, in all the time I spend online on DC-related forums and comments sections, I think Cavill in general is a lot more popular than he is on this board. Snyder is polarizing, but Cavill for the most part seems to be at least widely liked, if not loved, in the role. Part of the reason may simply be that we haven't had a Superman on-screen that wasn't Cavill for over 15 years now (Brandon Routh is a distant memory for most people, especially younger fans). Yes, there's Tyler Hoechlin, but let's face it, the TV viewing audience is a small fraction of the potential audience for a Superman film on the big screen. So Cavill is really the only game in town that people are already familiar with.

Cavill's Superman is also regarded as one of the strongest parts of Justice League (both versions!) Say what you will about the mess that those movies were (Whedon's more than Snyder's in my view), they certainly did justice (pun intended!) to our Boy in Blue!

I'm not saying I'm a ride-or-die Cavill fan. I'd have been more than happy if we'd gotten a The Batman-style reboot for Superman (one based on a comic like the New 52 Morrison run, or Superman Smashes the Klan). But I'm nonetheless thrilled that we're finally getting (fingers crossed!) the MOS sequel that we really ought to have got back in 2015.

[JAK]

I want superman to go back to leaping over tall buildings and protecting the little guy and feeling like one..too bad we don't get what want all the time.

The movie has an uphill battle..It needs to make 600mil at the very least.I am personally rooting for it to be good and i get kick out of it.Cause the first promos made me feel like it's straight up fire.A superman out of time and in the modern world.kahndaq felt like magic version of metropolis.The rock being in cavill's corner would probably be determined by how much money this makes..

It certainly does - but at least he's in there - and that's all on The Rock. He's already in Cavill's corner.

Deal me in for all four!

Honestly, in all the time I spend online on DC-related forums and comments sections, I think Cavill in general is a lot more popular than he is on this board. Snyder is polarizing, but Cavill for the most part seems to be at least widely liked, if not loved, in the role. Part of the reason may simply be that we haven't had a Superman on-screen that wasn't Cavill for over 15 years now (Brandon Routh is a distant memory for most people, especially younger fans). Yes, there's Tyler Hoechlin, but let's face it, the TV viewing audience is a small fraction of the potential audience for a Superman film on the big screen. So Cavill is really the only game in town that people are already familiar with.

Cavill's Superman is also regarded as one of the strongest parts of Justice League (both versions!) Say what you will about the mess that those movies were (Whedon's more than Snyder's in my view), they certainly did justice (pun intended!) to our Boy in Blue!

I'm not saying I'm a ride-or-die Cavill fan. I'd have been more than happy if we'd gotten a The Batman-style reboot for Superman (one based on a comic like the New 52 Morrison run, or Superman Smashes the Klan). But I'm nonetheless thrilled that we're finally getting (fingers crossed!) the MOS sequel that we really ought to have got back in 2015.

Same, even if I know it may not look like it lately. And if Cavill fills the "standard" Superman for a bit (hopefully? at least minus Snyder or anyone like him), it may open up a Superman take that can take a lot of wild chances (and possibly lean more into the Golden Age thing, too).

[manwhohaseverything]

Random thought- Wb are idiots..Just bring in Iron giant superman big screen cross over..There will be loads of money.God forbid,they try something with actual hook for general audience.Just have iron giant be one of the coluian robots that superman teaches not to be a gun..

[The World]

As someone who's pretty heavy on the Golden Age/Silver Age side of the Superman world; I will never understand people who liked the Snyder take on Batman but hated his Superman. His Superman was way closer to the truth than that knock off Punisher he trotted out and Affleck had to try and make work. And frankly I'll never side with any story where Superman jobs out to Batman, only hacks do that.

Also I'm in the camp of this "Superman needs charm" stuff being a lot of nothing. Cult Leaders, Celebrities, and Politicians need charm but Superman is ultimately just a man doing what he thinks is right. Frankly a rather uncharismatic dork sits better with me than the angle Byrne went with where he wanted Supes to be a psuedo celebrity going on talk shows and blabbing all over the place. Like wise Cavil played Clark Kent with the intent of him being taking seriously but it just doesn't leave much of an impact on anyone. Say what you will about the bumbling Donner Clark Kent but that take was memorable and left an impression on people while allowing for a greater contrast between Superman and Clark Kent.

[The Frog Bros]

As someone who's pretty heavy on the Golden Age/Silver Age side of the Superman world; I will never understand people who liked the Snyder take on Batman but hated his Superman. His Superman was way closer to the truth than that knock off Punisher he trotted out and Affleck had to try and make work. And frankly I'll never side with any story where Superman jobs out to Batman, only hacks do that.

Also I'm in the camp of this "Superman needs charm" stuff being a lot of nothing. Cult Leaders, Celebrities, and Politicians need charm but Superman is ultimately just a man doing what he thinks is right. Frankly a rather uncharismatic dork sits better with me than the angle Byrne went with where he wanted Supes to be a psuedo celebrity going on talk shows and blabbing all over the place. Like wise Cavil played Clark Kent with the intent of him being taking seriously but it just doesn't leave much of an impact on anyone. Say what you will about the bumbling Donner Clark Kent but that take was memorable and left an impression on people while allowing for a greater contrast between Superman and Clark Kent.

This is one of the areas where I feel like Hoechlin excels. He's not really the bumbling Clark, but he nails the dorky Clark, esp the dorky Dad stuff. Sort of a happy medium where he's not a total idiot but an endearing dorky dude as Clark. Depends on one's preference I suppose, but def different than Cavil's Clark.

[Vordan]

Saying “he needs charm” just means “I don’t care about this guy, he’s not getting me to like him or invest emotionally in his story”. Cavill is a huge nerd who builds gaming PCs and WH40k models, that endears him to people because it shows he’s got legit nerd hobbies. Despite him looking like a Greek statue brought to life, he’s a guy you could probably play a tabletop RPG with. He’s relatable or at least someone the average nerd can identify with.

In contrast his Superman is a total bore, he’s not assertive he just does what his dads tell him to do, his world is a boring collection of washed out and ugly grays, there’s no cool stuff like the Fortress to liven things up, Metropolis itself is a boring location devoid of personality. Everything runs on “well it’s Superman so of course he helps people and of course he works at the Planet” but it’s unconvincing because Snyder put so little effort into justifying it beyond relying on you knowing what’s “supposed” to happen and either playing it straight or subverting it.

Clark being a dork is great, Hoechlin shows he can be that without being a Reeve clone, and it would play well to Cavill’s strengths. Just let Cavill play himself, let his Superman building Kryptonian gaming computers and make figurines of his foes in the Fortress, let him be exuberant and enthusiastic about life and being a hero, and it be way more positively received by the audience over the stone faced stoic Cavill has played thus far.

[bat39]

As someone who's pretty heavy on the Golden Age/Silver Age side of the Superman world; I will never understand people who liked the Snyder take on Batman but hated his Superman. His Superman was way closer to the truth than that knock off Punisher he trotted out and Affleck had to try and make work. And frankly I'll never side with any story where Superman jobs out to Batman, only hacks do that.

Also I'm in the camp of this "Superman needs charm" stuff being a lot of nothing. Cult Leaders, Celebrities, and Politicians need charm but Superman is ultimately just a man doing what he thinks is right. Frankly a rather uncharismatic dork sits better with me than the angle Byrne went with where he wanted Supes to be a psuedo celebrity going on talk shows and blabbing all over the place. Like wise Cavil played Clark Kent with the intent of him being taking seriously but it just doesn't leave much of an impact on anyone. Say what you will about the bumbling Donner Clark Kent but that take was memorable and left an impression on people while allowing for a greater contrast between Superman and Clark Kent.

I agree with you that the Cavill/Snyder Superman is pretty faithful to the comics - specifically the Post-COIE comics (albeit with a bit more edge). Even one of the most controversial aspects of this Superman - killing Zod - is lifted straight out of the pages of Byrne's run.

On Cavill's Clark Kent - I actually kinda like it (in fact, I think he did a better job with Clark in BvS than he did with Superman). He feels a bit like George Reeves' Clark, but unlike that version, Cavill's Clark actually feels distinct from his Superman.

I don't think Superman necessarily needs to have 'charm', though it wouldn't hurt. I think the idea with Cavill's Superman is that he would have eventually evolved, over the course of movies, into something close to the 'classic' Superman (albeit filtered through a modern lens). Unfortunately, much of that development happened off-screen since we never got that MOS sequel.

[manwhohaseverything]

I would disagree,superman ain't a dork nor the celebrity playboy rich "boy" mourning and greivng underneath...

Superman might be rough,somewhat shabby,dirty,strong,man of few words,Kind, intelligent..etc.The guy ain't generic peter parker guy comics fans love.He wears the mask of generic peter parker guy and isn't fuelled by vengeance..You want superman?think of a more aware socio-politically aware street smart and intelligent(well rounded in that..science hero) bibbo bibowski..

A bit of a negation here,but i wanted to rid of parker and batman creeping in superman

[The Kid]

I think almost every protagonist in every movie needs charm and the few exceptions are those that are specifically playing against the formula. Charm just means you're likable and have a screen presence that makes the audience enjoy watching them. The opposite of charming in film is basically being boring ,which unless the movie is specifically about a 'boring' character and it plays with that, is a terrible thing to have said and means the creators failed at their job

[manwhohaseverything]

I think almost every protagonist in every movie needs charm and the few exceptions are those that are specifically playing against the formula. Charm just means you're likable and have a screen presence that makes the audience enjoy watching them. The opposite of charming in film is basically being boring ,which unless the movie is specifically about a 'boring' character and it plays with that, is a terrible thing to have said and means the creators failed at their job

Hit the nail right on the head.. Ofcourse,Writing something to be likable is also a very hard thing to do.Because people have different measuring stick on what is likable.