Marvel phase 5 problem & critique

[Bunch of Coconuts]

The thing is, when a decent conversation does happen, people either plug their ears and "nya nya it's my opinion, you can't tell me I'm wrong," or someone makes a snide comment that boils down to them claiming they enjoy "quality product and if you're willing to accept something lesser, that speaks about your tastes."

The quality of the product is an opinion, and if one side isn't wrong, neither side is.

But since we're critiquing analogies, your McDonald's one was very weak too. McDonald's is proven to serve food of little to no nutritional value, and even possibly detrimental to one's health. I think you'd be giving the MCU too much credit if you were to claim it can kill people.

[Scott Taylor]

As a comic and cartoon Thor fan, it just turns me off of the whole thing.

But I'm not usually in favor of exchanging gravitas or pathos for jokes.

Yah I respect that. I mean, they did try to go that route at first.

[Frontier]

Yah I respect that. I mean, they did try to go that route at first.

I think the TDW really screwed things over big time from a mythos/character/franchise building standpoint.

[Gaelforce]

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[kcekada]

It was certainly popular enough, although, as a fan of comic Thor, I kind of wish they'd cast someone other than Hemsworth, who can do 'goofy Thor gets tasered again, ha ha', but not the sort of awe-inspiring millenia-old god of war and thunder Thor that I read about in the (pre-Jason Aaron) comics.

The comedy in Ragnarok would, IMO, have worked better if it was a movie about someone like D-Man. Or maybe Hercules, although I still would have preferred it be toned down for Herc and he not be portrayed quite as much a doofus as Thor was portrayed.

'Ragnarok' has connotations that weren't delivered from the joke fest that was the third Thor movie. I mean -- even Hela was acting like she was in an episode of 'Friends'. There was no gravitas for me -- just a joke fest with some drama thrown in -- should have been the other way around. I know the film was very popular -- but yeah, MCU Thor is basically comic book Hercules. Not sure what MCU Hercules will be like -- maybe comic book Thor?

[Maestro 216]

'Ragnarok' has connotations that weren't delivered from the joke fest that was the third Thor movie. I mean -- even Hela was acting like she was in an episode of 'Friends'. There was no gravitas for me -- just a joke fest with some drama thrown in -- should have been the other way around. I know the film was very popular -- but yeah, MCU Thor is basically comic book Hercules. Not sure what MCU Hercules will be like -- maybe comic book Thor?

The more "serious" one of the two.

[krazijoe]

The more "serious" one of the two.

I took Comedian Thor as a person that cannot deal with his feelings so he uses comedy to show emotion. His mom died, dad died, brother died or didn't die but is a dick, girl he loves is dying or doesn't want him, friends died etc...2-3 of those would bring even the strongest person to their knees but yet here he is keeping on and using comedy has his coping mechanism. Eventually he totally loses it and becomes Dad-Bod Thor etc. There is a certain progression there that seems to make sense...

[80sbaby]

Thor isn't really a comedian, though. He doesn't actually crack jokes or make quips. His stories have situational and physical comedy and things that are humorous to the audience but the character himself isn't a jokester.

[mace11]

By the way kevin feige never admited the story telling in phase 4 is the weakest or less creative etc..but he admits it's less connected then phase 3 for example and most of the audience wants to go back to be being more connected,so that's the mess certain folks are talking about and few other things.

kevin-feige-marvel-mcu-phase-4-mess

When asked about the choice, Kevin Feige explained Marvel unveiled Phase 6 plans so early on because they wanted fans to have a "guide point," meaning an idea that everything that they have been doing thus far is leading to something.

The fact that he felt compelled to make these announcements years before their release indicates that they are aware of how poorly Phase 4 has done in terms of building on their interconnected storytelling.
For context, the latest phase of the MCU has been criticized for being disjointed and directionless, and those comments were not without merit. Feige announcing Avengers: The Kang Dynasty and Avengers:

Secret Wars effectively squashes worries that Marvel Studios is dropping the ball after the Infinity Saga. For context, Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame, which ended MCU Phase 3, weren’t announced until the middle of Phase 2, meaning these new announcements should have come in sometime during Phase 5.

Marvel Studios' decision to lay out their timeline for the MCU's Multiverse Saga is their subtle way of reassuring the public that they know what they are doing. It's no secret that after the Infinity Saga, there were concerns that the MCU had already peaked, and it didn't help that it's difficult to see a clear narrative throughline among most Phase 4 projects. Granted that Loki, Spider-Man: No Way Home, and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness were all thematically connected, it wasn't enough evidence to gauge what's Marvel Studios' next big crossover event was until Feige's Comic-Con announcements. Unfortunately, this doesn't solve all of the MCU Phase 4 issues, which include tonal problems for some of their projects, not to mention VFX work that appears to be getting worse. These can only be addressed by actively tackling such specific criticisms moving forward.

Whether or not Phase 5 will be plagued by the same negative issues that MCU Phase 4 encountered is uncertain at this point. However, Kevin Feige's Multiverse Saga announcement at San Diego Comic-Con 2022 is an indication that Marvel Studios is listening to their audience and reacting accordingly. At the very least, having an idea that everything set up in the MCU Phase 4 is leading to a potentially satisfying payoff should be enough to keep people invested until the end of Phase 6.

https://screenrant.com/kevin-feige-m...-phase-4-mess/

Kevin feige warn folks by the way phase 4 will be less connected then phase 3 for example for clear reasons,new heroes,starting over etc..

[mace11]

Darnell quote-
Yeah I don’t really get the people complaining. If you haven’t liked most of the content lately that’s fine but, to act like phase 1 told us everything that was coming is some revisionist nonsense. Phase 1 was Thanos as big bad and infinity stones. Phase 4 is Kang as big bad and the multiverse. They’ve literally given the same amount of info. Just have to wait n see how it comes together

More nonsense talk from john campea below .

MCU To Make Sweeping Changes After Phase 4 Disappointment Claims Report




Here is some chat about this as well below.

erikthered25 quote-
I'm sick of all this fan fiction surrounding phase 4. It took 14 years for Marvel fans to become just as nitpicky, entitled, and unsatisfiable as Star Wars fans lol I get it You didn't like some of the content, You don't have to. Some of the content did not totally link up together, so what. Feige has already said that was done by design to take some of the pressure off the fans and their creatives so they wouldn't have to watch everything that comes out.

It was clear to me that the overarching theme was the rise of other heroes to fill the gap now that the avengers have been disbanded after The Infinity war saga.

After such a successful 10 years this was the perfect time to do such a thing. I'm so glad Marvel isn't run like WB or else they would have canceled everything based on a few fan videos and Twitter complaints lol I personally enjoyed all of it.

I enjoyed all the movies and TV shows. If you ask non MCU fans they enjoyer the movies they even enjoyed Thor love and thunder. It's only this very loud MCU vocal minority that's running around screaming the building is on fire.

The Marvel Universe has gotten to the point where they're not living and dying on movies ergo they can now experiment, do different things, even reach for the sky and fail in order to figure out what works and what doesn't work. Phase IV was an experimental phase for the MCU.

This experimental phase was needed in order to grow the brand. If you look at it that way you'd realize that phase four was much more successful than people give it credit for. People are saying with the Ant-Man trailer phase 5 looks like a return to form.

It only looks like a return to form because phase four was the experimental phase and now they've returned to The old Marvel way of doing things.

Phase 4 was a great phase.

I believe folks Will eventually look back on phase four years later and see it was a pivotal time in the MCU and it was needed to push the MCU brand into different directions.

Kris Hite quote-
This whole "everything has to fit together" thinking is the main problem. People have that mindset and it is just ruining everything. Yes the first 3 phases were leading to something, but even then alot of movies really had nothing to do with the ongoing plot outside of a post credit scene. Phase 4 was about setting up new heroes and villains for phase 5 and 6, but people have no patience for this
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Joshua Engelmann quote-
Phase Four was fine. It was just a very vocal minority that decided the MCU was over after Endgame that was the complainers. However it did feel like too many projects as much as I liked them all.
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Johnny82Utah quote-
It's funny I'm sure those who are complaining about the volume of projects in phase 4 were the ones clamoring for them to explore more things like phase 4 has. I'm certainly all for volume the more the better as far as I'm concerned as long as it stays true to what the MCU is as a whole. I disagree with John in that the connectivity is what makes the MCU special and can really enhance the experience. Spider-Man No Way Home bringing in the past Spider-Man films as Canon is not only fantastic as a viewer but gave a lot of hope as to what was to come.
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$tr@nq3 quote-
I have a few criticisms but over all I thought Phase 4 was awesome. It is the most creative and unique the superhero genre has ever been and for that alone I give Marvel so much props. All i can say is that I will be there for every show and movie they release.
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KrisK A Sass quote-
I have no complaints. I love Disney+ shows and cant wait for more. Bring it all !!
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BQNash quote-
What Marvel has accomplished during a pandemic is nothing short of amazing. I'm with them till the end of the line.
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SharpPieces quote-
Disney+ is the greatest gift to the MCU . Brought us stories and characters we would never see on the big screen
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KaosDrago quote-
Phase 4 has been my favorite and easily the best IMO

Yeah I don’t really get the people complaining. If you haven’t liked most of the content lately that’s fine but, to act like phase 1 told us everything that was coming is some revisionist nonsense. Phase 1 was Thanos as big bad and infinity stones. Phase 4 is Kang as big bad and the multiverse. They’ve literally given the same amount of info. Just have to wait n see how it comes together

Folks who are saying phase 4 is not as good as past phases and a disappointment are a loud minority(on the internet for example) and what they say do not match up with what the scores are on rt.
In real life most the audience think phase 4 is the best phase(combination tv and movies)looking at the new recent RT SCORES for phase 4 most critics think phase 4 is the best phase so far too (combination tv shows and movies).

[mace11]

MCU phase 4 has been going back and forth with comedy and serious films.Anyway most of phase 4 has not been mostly comedy. Doctor strange 2,eternals,spiderman home coming,black widow etc.. are serious films with some humor.
Now some have more humor then others.
Most of the phase 4 shows are serious.(i think all of them) It's the dceu currently that has been most comedy.
Heck the first dceu show peacemaker is action comedy.
Phase 4 has been more darker and more serious then the current dceu.
Now she-hulk is a comedy and black panther 2 is not for example.

[Matt Rat]

Fokks who are saying phase 4 is not as good as past phases and a disappointment are a loud minority(on the internet for example) and what they say do not match up with what the scores are on rt.

RT is'nt a credible merit system for either side, and I absolutely hate that people who see the emperor is naked are constantly dismissed as a 'minority', as if their criticims don't matter. A minority isn't necessarily wrong.

I don't care much for what shill access media tells me, or what the general public perception of Marvel is, I look elsewhere for more critical and intelligent discourse. None of this "10/10 best movie eva" crowd, which is said for every event, every TV show etc, and I just don't get why. Objectively, I think Marvel are inferior.

My views are my own, and I believe phase 4 was terrible and for the most part far too jokey and embarrassingly structured and written. I don't get if I'm viewed as a 'minority' and made to seem small. I know, in my personal opinion, I'm not wrong, and I'm glad I'm not alone and others can see the emperor is naked.

[HollowSage]

RT is'nt a credible merit system for either side, and I absolutely hate that people who see the emperor is naked are constantly dismissed as a 'minority', as if their criticims don't matter. A minority isn't necessarily wrong.

I don't care much for what shill access media tells me, or what the general public perception of Marvel is, I look elsewhere for more critical and intelligent discourse. None of this "10/10 best movie eva" crowd, which is said for every event, every TV show etc, and I just don't get why. Objectively, I think Marvel are inferior.

My views are my own, and I believe phase 4 was terrible and for the most part far too jokey and embarrassingly structured and written. I don't get if I'm viewed as a 'minority' and made to seem small. I know, in my personal opinion, I'm not wrong, and I'm glad I'm not alone and others can see the emperor is naked.

They are just movies. Take a deep breath and relax. Everyone has an opinion and it’s not that serious. Remember they are just movies.

[Hol]

I agree with Jokerz79. The idea that the MCU from Iron Man to Endgame was this meticulously crafted master plan with no missteps until phase 4 is revisionist history.

Exactly! I love the MCU. I think what they have acomplished is amazing. Nothing like this has ever been done before and will likely never happen again. The majority of the films and shows are good. Some are incredible and a handful meh. But that is a huge deal. I am not saying people can't critique it but sometimes I am like "really? Do you remember what most superhero movies were like before?" On top of that they have made characters like The Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant Man, Black Panther, and The Scarlet Witch household names while DC/WB can't make a halfway decent Superman film.

The first few phases of the MCU were not perfect. People complained about lots of the films. These phases are not perfect but I think they are mostly good to great. I also love that the shows especially are more like the publishing line now with it's variety. I hear people complaining about Ms Marvel or Moon Knight. Guess what ...those shows may not be for you. And thats ok. Most people don't read and enjoy EVERY Marvel comic either.

I am loving the ride and hope to enjoy it for many years to come.

[Zero Hunter]

I have said this on other places but Phase 4 has been about introducing and setting up new heroes. Shang Chi, White Vision, Captain America (Sam), She Hulk, Moon Knight, Ms. Marvel, American Chavez, and lets not forget they have introduced pretty much the entire team that is going to make up the young Avengers (Eli Bradley, Kate Bishop, Stature (by the looks of the new Ant Man Cassie is getting a suit), and Skarr (who is going to fill the Hulkling role). Not to mention we have seen young Wican and Speed in two different projects.

To not do the shows and then try to explain stuff like why is Vision back and white or where did Sam get the new costume or who are these new people in the next Avengers movie just takes time away from the actual story.