Marvel phase 5 problem & critique

[Peyton Westlake]

This is all my opinion, so take from it what you like.
It appears evident to me, going all the way back to Phase 1, Marvel, had a clear direction in which they wanted to go.
Starting with Iron Man....the casting, writers & directors of all their characters seemed to be home runs.
And each movie built on the next, setting up the future & bigger picture.
It was so well done, even the post credit scenes with hints, were almost as popular as the movie & stories itself.
And I assume all 'godfathered' by Kevin Feige....it was an imagination machine with no stopping it.
But now with the close of phase 4........something seems .... off? Disjointed? Unclear? Disconnected?
You see what I am getting at.
To me, it almost seems Mr. Feige planned 3 stellar phases & stopped?
Or someone else we are not aware of took over plotting the course for the MCU?
Maybe Mr. Feige wanted a little break & entrusted someone else to chart it out?
Whatever the reason is, something is clearly off.
The direction & ideas of phase 4, don't seem to flow or lead to a logical end point, it's not cohesive.
It seems even more so with the cancellation of or rather, HUGE delays that have been announced with their movies.
Yes, I know they laid out a timeline leading to 2 more Avenger movies......but how the story & ideas connect (even using the Disney+ shows involvement) seem to be forced.
Maybe it's just me being spoiled with how well phases 1 to 3 were smooth, but its apparent to me, MCU is hitting a wall.
Anyone agree or like to add their thoughts?

[mace11]

I don't want to keep repeating myself so i will post some links below.
Here is talk about it here and what is going on with phase 4 and what will happen in phase 5 etc..

THREAD: MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE PART II
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...art-II/page563
and
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...art-II/page564

[80sbaby]

Phase 4 had been pretty clear on it's set-ups. It's setting up the Multiverse/Kang, introducing new characters and legacy characters. It's all leading up to Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars. I'm honestly not sure how this confuses some people?

[Peyton Westlake]

Phase 4 had been pretty clear on it's set-ups. It's setting up the Multiverse/Kang, introducing new characters and legacy characters. It's all leading up to Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars. I'm honestly not sure how this confuses some people?

I am not confused.
I just don't think phase 4 into 5 flows as smooth or is as clear as phases 1 thru 3.

[80sbaby]

I am not confused.
I just don't think phase 4 into 5 flows as smooth or is as clear as phases 1 thru 3.

How do you know how it flows when Phase 5 hasn't even happened yet? You can't say that at this point.

[Jokerz79]

I think people have rose colored glasses of the 1st 3 phases of Marvel.

I love the Ant-Man films but that franchise has always been a almost self contained film series which isn't the blockbusters like the other MCU films.

While Iron Man was a massive hit, most feel the sequels never lived up to the 1st film.

Thor the Dark World is considered by most one of the weakest MCU films.

Even Age of Ultron wasn't overly praised upon release being seen not as good as Avengers 2012.

& until Infinity War Thanos did nothing.

Even the tv shows weren't as beloved as people seem to think when trashing the DisneyPlus shows. Agents of Shield was a mix bag, Inhumans was awful, Runaways and Cloak and Dagger were ok, and the Netflix shows while great also had some low points.

There was that getting rid of a interesting character and replacing them with a less interesting one mid season issue. Daredevil Season 2 Elektra was good, but Punisher from the 1st few episodes were the highlight, Cottonmouth dying definitely took the air out of season 1 of Luke Cage, Sigourney Weaver being killed off for Elektra in Defenders, Jessica Jones never was as good as Season 1 in later seasons, and Iron Fist was mediocre thanks to the lead. Punisher was the only one that was fine all the way thru although no committing to Jigsaw being a full villain was a letdown to me.

As for Phase 4 it's been about passing the torch to legacy characters or new ones and building up the Multiverse.

Black Widow was setting Yelena as a Black Widow and to a lesser extent with Falcon and the Winter Soldier and She-Hulk has been set ups for Thunderbolts. Speaking of Falcon and the Winter Soldier that was a set up for Sam as Cap. Hawkeye was setting up Kate Bishop to eventually replace Clint.

New characters Shang-Chi, Ms. Marvel, America Chavez, the Eternals, Black Knight, Agatha Harkness, Moonknight, Starfox, Hercules, Werewolf By Night, Man-Thing, and Elsa Bloodstone have all been introduced.

Loki, Dr. Strange 2, and No Way Home have all introduced the and expanded on the Multiverse.

& Wakanda Forever is setting up introducing Namor, Ironheart, and a new Black Panther.

I know I'm repeating myself but all the shows and films were either about setting up the Multiverse or introducing new characters with the exception of Love and Thunder which was just a fun Thor sequel yeah Jane's Mighty Thor was introduced but seemed to have been a one off. So there is a flow and it's definitely building the MCU up for the next Phase.

This Phase was very reminiscent of Phase 2. 2 great films Winter Soldier and GOTG, 2 okay films AOU and Ant-Man, and 2 of the lowest points Iron Man 3 and Thor the Dark World. The Phase introduced new characters Bucky as Winter Soldier, Falcon, Agent 13, Ant-Man, Wanda, Pietro, Vision, and the GOTG. While the big bad of Phase 3 did nothing but sit on chair and in a post credit scene claimed he'd do it himself and then wasn't seen again for 6 films.

[HollowSage]

I agree with Jokerz79. The idea that the MCU from Iron Man to Endgame was this meticulously crafted master plan with no missteps until phase 4 is revisionist history.

Marvel has made mistakes. Fake Mandarin from IM3. The reason they are still successful is that they learn from mistakes and make changes. Real Mandarin in Shang-Chi.

Phase 4 is just growing pains from expanding the MCU. The more movies and shows they make and the more characters they introduce means that they won’t all be winners with everyone. However that expansion also means that there is more to choose from meaning that there is probably something for everyone.

[useridgoeshere]

I think people have rose colored glasses of the 1st 3 phases of Marvel.

Won't quote it all but I definitely agree with you.

[Kirby101]

They had a vague idea of where to go from Iron Man. They did not even know if it would be a hit, that is why RDJ got such a big contract, they did not sign him to a multi-picture deal until after IM and had to pay him $$ for it. What Fiege did right is get some excellent creators like the Russos, Gunn and Whedon to shepherd the movies. There was no grand design from the offset.

[Peyton Westlake]

Well the 2 Avengers movies they announced, Kang & then Secret Wars, seem to be separate in their focus.

Kang seems like he will be defeated in 1 movie , where I thought thay would stretch it out more like Thanos over a few.

Just observations, not really upset by it.

[80sbaby]

Well the 2 Avengers movies they announced, Kang & then Secret Wars, seem to be separate in their focus.

Kang seems like he will be defeated in 1 movie , where I thought thay would stretch it out more like Thanos over a few.

Just observations, not really upset by it.

How is that different than IW and Endgame? And, again, the films aren't out not does either even have a synopsis so why are you making these assumptions?

Also, with only 3 posts, all about how the MCU has fallen...who's alt are you?

[hyped78]

So far, the MCU post Infinity Saga has been a complete dud for me - there hasn't been a single movie that has wowed me and the TV shows have been either "nice" or just weak (this is just my opinion)

[Frontier]

I've enjoyed Phase 4 but I feel like whether because they're doing so much or because of COVID, there isn't quite the quality control or consistency that was there in the earlier Phases because we've got so many Disney+ shows and new movies coming out and the past few Marvel films and even some of the shows have been criticized for script/story issues (and wonky FX).

[Frobisher]

People have such short memories. The main difference from phase one is sheer volume (too much?) of output and the impossible expectations of fans after the inconceivable hugeness of Infinity War/Endgame.

[wleakr]

People have such short memories. The main difference from phase one is sheer volume (too much?) of output and the impossible expectations of fans after the inconceivable hugeness of Infinity War/Endgame.

Exactly this.

For me, I'm enjoying almost all the products. Each movie and series adds more diversity to MCU and I'm hopeful that it will be capitalized on in the next batch of Avengers movies.

I'm betting DC would love to have these "problems"!