Marvel phase 5 problem & critique

[Peyton Westlake]

For me it's not an issue of the variety, just that it seems like they're having difficulty pacing out streaming shows, writing villains/antagonists (or doing better than just writing female heroes into villains), and not always scaling things well (did we really need a Kaiju fight in Shang-Chi or an out-of-nowhere skybase in Black Widow?).

I agree.
The pacing you are spot on with.
The scaling is also a good point.

[HollowSage]

Am I the only one who sees what is happening here?

Just wondering?

[CSTowle]

That’s a rational response. You don’t need to watch everything. Pick the movies and shows that interest you. That’s just normal.

The only reason this topic keeps coming up is because some people can’t seem to accept that simple truth.

The only reason this topic keeps coming up is because the topic is: the quality of the current output. It shouldn't surprise you or anyone else that in a discussion about quality of work there might be differences of opinion, and one or more of them may not jibe with your own.

Saying things like, "not everything is meant for you" doesn't mean a product is a high quality one that just doesn't cater to a specific audience, it means that it's targeted to another audience. That's beside the point of the thread, which is about the quality of the work.

There's a difference between "I like that thing" and "that's a high quality piece of work". I watch a lot of horror movies and B-tier sci-fi movies and there's a lot of them that I love that are pure garbage. But they scratch an itch for me, and I'm glad for it. Would I like them to have a Disney budget and higher profile actors? In theory sure (in practice it would probably make them more like Disney hero films, bland and vanilla-ized to appeal to a broad audience to recoup the money invested).

One can also watch the entire slate of best picture nominees and if they're lucky see a lot of high quality films and maybe one or two that they actually enjoy. Because quality doesn't necessarily equate to enjoyment.

Disney hero movies are basic popcorn movies, and we shouldn't expect them to be high quality or all-timers (unless the all-time list is box office numbers). But we can judge them on their quality against other popcorn movies (including non-hero ones, like your Fast & Furious or Transformers franchises).

We also shouldn't see people not enjoying the same things we do or seeing things we enjoy as being of a lower level of quality than they'd like as a personal attack on us. The great thing about liking something is that if 99% of people don't like that thing it doesn't impact your enjoyment of it. It might make it harder to share with others, but it shouldn't keep you from liking the things you like. You also can't force someone to like the things you do, or see them as higher quality than they are because you like them.

[HollowSage]

The only reason this topic keeps coming up is because the topic is: the quality of the current output. It shouldn't surprise you or anyone else that in a discussion about quality of work there might be differences of opinion, and one or more of them may not jibe with your own.

I doubt anyone is surprised by this thread especially given it’s op. My point still stands. The quality of the work has fluctuated since the beginning. Only those looking at the past with rose colored glasses think it has only started with phase 4.

Saying things like, "not everything is meant for you" doesn't mean a product is a high quality one that just doesn't cater to a specific audience, it means that it's targeted to another audience. That's beside the point of the thread, which is about the quality of the work.

Correct. It doesn’t mean that it’s high quality nor was it meant to. However that doesn’t make the statement untrue.

You also can't force someone to like the things you do, or see them as higher quality than they are because you like them.

No you can’t. It’s a good thing that no one was trying.

[Frobisher]

Am I the only one who sees what is happening here?

Just wondering?

Nope, but no-one seems willing or able to break the cycle.

[hyped78]

I doubt anyone is surprised by this thread especially given it’s op. My point still stands. The quality of the work has fluctuated since the beginning. Only those looking at the past with rose colored glasses think it has only started with phase 4.

While Phases 1, 2 and 3 weren’t perfect, I think the quality has dropped signifcantly with Phase 4 versus any of the previous phases

[Frontier]

My point is that statement applies to not only the entire MCU since IM but also all media.

I also want to enjoy everything I watch, read and listen to but that’s not always the case. Nothing is perfect and everything has the potential for improvement. You also have to consider that some things that don’t work for you work for others. I’ve watched plenty of movies and shows people have raved about only to be underwhelmed. Different people enjoy different things.

I guess it’s kinda like a band that’s had a long career and put out a lot of albums. Maybe you enjoyed the early stuff but over the years the band changed some things up and you aren’t as big of a fan of their new stuff but others are. Which fans are right and which are wrong? Neither.

Me personally I feel invested in the universe both as a fan of the MCU since the start and as a fan of the comics so I want to follow to see where it goes.

It's not that I'm unwilling to try different things but sometimes I feel a little bummed out/disappointed by the end of it.

Like, with Ms. Marvel, I love the character in the comics and what she brings to the table, but I didn't need to see her fighting generic bad guys or SWAT teams. It just didn't feel like Ms. Marvel.

[80sbaby]

Ms. Marvel should have been more episodic. It lends itself to a more traditional series, imo. Much like She-Hulk and both should be an hour long.

[Phoenix Raptor]

Me personally I feel invested in the universe both as a fan of the MCU since the start and as a fan of the comics so I want to follow to see where it goes.

It's not that I'm unwilling to try different things but sometimes I feel a little bummed out/disappointed by the end of it.

Like, with Ms. Marvel, I love the character in the comics and what she brings to the table, but I didn't need to see her fighting generic bad guys or SWAT teams. It just didn't feel like Ms. Marvel.

The bold is pretty much where I've always been. I've never had any real interest in Iron Man, Captain America or the Avengers in comic form (very much an X-fan here) but the opportunity to see them and others in a big budget movie was incredible back at the start of the MCU. I could enjoy the movies and, perhaps more specifically, the portrayals by the respective actors without feeling a need to know every last bit of comic lore behind them and how accurately the plots mirrored the comics.

Even before it came out, I knew that Ms. Marvel wouldn't necessarily be a series "for me." I'm not really a fan of the comic character but, as the MCU is "all connected", I sat down to watch it as there could well have been an important part of the puzzle featured in the series. I didn't enjoy it and I couldn't actually finish watching it. But that doesn't mean that I think it was a trash series or anything like that; I simply wasn't the demographic that it was aimed at. And, just like the comics themselves, that's absolutely fine. The same holds true for She Hulk for me: never a huge fan of the character and didn't really expect to love the series about her.

I do feel that quantity is exceeding quality at the moment, but Marvel/Disney is a business and, as has already been said, expanding the target audience brings more money in. Which is basically Business 101. One man's trash is another man's treasure, and all that.

[Sutekh]

I do feel that quantity is exceeding quality at the moment, but Marvel/Disney is a business and, as has already been said, expanding the target audience brings more money in. Which is basically Business 101. One man's trash is another man's treasure, and all that.

Yeah, my thought as well. Not every single Marvel production has been laser-targeted on a demographic of ME, specifically, and some I like more or less, but I'm just barely smart enough to realize that Marvel needs more than my money alone to succeed as a business and employ those hundreds of names in the end-credits they make me sit through, and might want to expand their audience to a wider audience, than just me and my very specific tastes.

[HollowSage]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Raptor
I do feel that quantity is exceeding quality at the moment, but Marvel/Disney is a business and, as has already been said, expanding the target audience brings more money in. Which is basically Business 101. One man's trash is another man's treasure, and all that.

Yeah, my thought as well. Not every single Marvel production has been laser-targeted on a demographic of ME, specifically, and some I like more or less, but I'm just barely smart enough to realize that Marvel needs more than my money alone to succeed as a business and employ those hundreds of names in the end-credits they make me sit through, and might want to expand their audience to a wider audience, than just me and my very specific tastes.

Thank you both. My faith in mankind is redeemed.

[Peyton Westlake]

While Phases 1, 2 and 3 weren’t perfect, I think the quality has dropped signifcantly with Phase 4 versus any of the previous phases

Thank you for somewhat agreeing.

[Menacer]

This is all my opinion, so take from it what you like.
It appears evident to me, going all the way back to Phase 1, Marvel, had a clear direction in which they wanted to go.
Starting with Iron Man....the casting, writers & directors of all their characters seemed to be home runs.
And each movie built on the next, setting up the future & bigger picture.
It was so well done, even the post credit scenes with hints, were almost as popular as the movie & stories itself.
And I assume all 'godfathered' by Kevin Feige....it was an imagination machine with no stopping it.
But now with the close of phase 4........something seems .... off? Disjointed? Unclear? Disconnected?
You see what I am getting at.
To me, it almost seems Mr. Feige planned 3 stellar phases & stopped?
Or someone else we are not aware of took over plotting the course for the MCU?
Maybe Mr. Feige wanted a little break & entrusted someone else to chart it out?
Whatever the reason is, something is clearly off.
The direction & ideas of phase 4, don't seem to flow or lead to a logical end point, it's not cohesive.
It seems even more so with the cancellation of or rather, HUGE delays that have been announced with their movies.
Yes, I know they laid out a timeline leading to 2 more Avenger movies......but how the story & ideas connect (even using the Disney+ shows involvement) seem to be forced.
Maybe it's just me being spoiled with how well phases 1 to 3 were smooth, but its apparent to me, MCU is hitting a wall.
Anyone agree or like to add their thoughts?

Phase 1 was pretty underwhelming. I've said it before and I'll say it again Marvel has maybe 7 great films out of 30ish movies. The rest being average to Boring to out right bad...

But people largely gobbled them up.

[Somecrazyaussie]

Am I the only one who sees what is happening here?

Just wondering?

I see people debating the performance of a phase of films and tv series that haven't even dropped yet.

If future performance is indicative of past performance then the answer is thus: the MCU will continue to have hits and misses. Which it has done since 2008 all those years ago.

[hyped78]

Phase 1 was pretty underwhelming. I've said it before and I'll say it again Marvel has maybe 7 great films out of 30ish movies. The rest being average to Boring to out right bad...

But people largely gobbled them up.

Iron Man, Captain America and the Avengers were underwhelming? I completely disagree; just my opinion.