Marvel phase 5 problem & critique

[Peyton Westlake]

This is all my opinion, so take from it what you like.
It appears evident to me, going all the way back to Phase 1, Marvel, had a clear direction in which they wanted to go.
Starting with Iron Man....the casting, writers & directors of all their characters seemed to be home runs.
And each movie built on the next, setting up the future & bigger picture.
It was so well done, even the post credit scenes with hints, were almost as popular as the movie & stories itself.
And I assume all 'godfathered' by Kevin Feige....it was an imagination machine with no stopping it.
But now with the close of phase 4........something seems .... off? Disjointed? Unclear? Disconnected?
You see what I am getting at.
To me, it almost seems Mr. Feige planned 3 stellar phases & stopped?
Or someone else we are not aware of took over plotting the course for the MCU?
Maybe Mr. Feige wanted a little break & entrusted someone else to chart it out?
Whatever the reason is, something is clearly off.
The direction & ideas of phase 4, don't seem to flow or lead to a logical end point, it's not cohesive.
It seems even more so with the cancellation of or rather, HUGE delays that have been announced with their movies.
Yes, I know they laid out a timeline leading to 2 more Avenger movies......but how the story & ideas connect (even using the Disney+ shows involvement) seem to be forced.
Maybe it's just me being spoiled with how well phases 1 to 3 were smooth, but its apparent to me, MCU is hitting a wall.
Anyone agree or like to add their thoughts?

[mace11]

I don't want to keep repeating myself so i will post some links below.
Here is talk about it here and what is going on with phase 4 and what will happen in phase 5 etc..

THREAD: MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE PART II
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...art-II/page563
and
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...art-II/page564

[80sbaby]

Phase 4 had been pretty clear on it's set-ups. It's setting up the Multiverse/Kang, introducing new characters and legacy characters. It's all leading up to Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars. I'm honestly not sure how this confuses some people?

[Peyton Westlake]

Phase 4 had been pretty clear on it's set-ups. It's setting up the Multiverse/Kang, introducing new characters and legacy characters. It's all leading up to Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars. I'm honestly not sure how this confuses some people?

I am not confused.
I just don't think phase 4 into 5 flows as smooth or is as clear as phases 1 thru 3.

[80sbaby]

I am not confused.
I just don't think phase 4 into 5 flows as smooth or is as clear as phases 1 thru 3.

How do you know how it flows when Phase 5 hasn't even happened yet? You can't say that at this point.

[Jokerz79]

I think people have rose colored glasses of the 1st 3 phases of Marvel.

I love the Ant-Man films but that franchise has always been a almost self contained film series which isn't the blockbusters like the other MCU films.

While Iron Man was a massive hit, most feel the sequels never lived up to the 1st film.

Thor the Dark World is considered by most one of the weakest MCU films.

Even Age of Ultron wasn't overly praised upon release being seen not as good as Avengers 2012.

& until Infinity War Thanos did nothing.

Even the tv shows weren't as beloved as people seem to think when trashing the DisneyPlus shows. Agents of Shield was a mix bag, Inhumans was awful, Runaways and Cloak and Dagger were ok, and the Netflix shows while great also had some low points.

There was that getting rid of a interesting character and replacing them with a less interesting one mid season issue. Daredevil Season 2 Elektra was good, but Punisher from the 1st few episodes were the highlight, Cottonmouth dying definitely took the air out of season 1 of Luke Cage, Sigourney Weaver being killed off for Elektra in Defenders, Jessica Jones never was as good as Season 1 in later seasons, and Iron Fist was mediocre thanks to the lead. Punisher was the only one that was fine all the way thru although no committing to Jigsaw being a full villain was a letdown to me.

As for Phase 4 it's been about passing the torch to legacy characters or new ones and building up the Multiverse.

Black Widow was setting Yelena as a Black Widow and to a lesser extent with Falcon and the Winter Soldier and She-Hulk has been set ups for Thunderbolts. Speaking of Falcon and the Winter Soldier that was a set up for Sam as Cap. Hawkeye was setting up Kate Bishop to eventually replace Clint.

New characters Shang-Chi, Ms. Marvel, America Chavez, the Eternals, Black Knight, Agatha Harkness, Moonknight, Starfox, Hercules, Werewolf By Night, Man-Thing, and Elsa Bloodstone have all been introduced.

Loki, Dr. Strange 2, and No Way Home have all introduced the and expanded on the Multiverse.

& Wakanda Forever is setting up introducing Namor, Ironheart, and a new Black Panther.

I know I'm repeating myself but all the shows and films were either about setting up the Multiverse or introducing new characters with the exception of Love and Thunder which was just a fun Thor sequel yeah Jane's Mighty Thor was introduced but seemed to have been a one off. So there is a flow and it's definitely building the MCU up for the next Phase.

This Phase was very reminiscent of Phase 2. 2 great films Winter Soldier and GOTG, 2 okay films AOU and Ant-Man, and 2 of the lowest points Iron Man 3 and Thor the Dark World. The Phase introduced new characters Bucky as Winter Soldier, Falcon, Agent 13, Ant-Man, Wanda, Pietro, Vision, and the GOTG. While the big bad of Phase 3 did nothing but sit on chair and in a post credit scene claimed he'd do it himself and then wasn't seen again for 6 films.

[Menacer]

This is all my opinion, so take from it what you like.
It appears evident to me, going all the way back to Phase 1, Marvel, had a clear direction in which they wanted to go.
Starting with Iron Man....the casting, writers & directors of all their characters seemed to be home runs.
And each movie built on the next, setting up the future & bigger picture.
It was so well done, even the post credit scenes with hints, were almost as popular as the movie & stories itself.
And I assume all 'godfathered' by Kevin Feige....it was an imagination machine with no stopping it.
But now with the close of phase 4........something seems .... off? Disjointed? Unclear? Disconnected?
You see what I am getting at.
To me, it almost seems Mr. Feige planned 3 stellar phases & stopped?
Or someone else we are not aware of took over plotting the course for the MCU?
Maybe Mr. Feige wanted a little break & entrusted someone else to chart it out?
Whatever the reason is, something is clearly off.
The direction & ideas of phase 4, don't seem to flow or lead to a logical end point, it's not cohesive.
It seems even more so with the cancellation of or rather, HUGE delays that have been announced with their movies.
Yes, I know they laid out a timeline leading to 2 more Avenger movies......but how the story & ideas connect (even using the Disney+ shows involvement) seem to be forced.
Maybe it's just me being spoiled with how well phases 1 to 3 were smooth, but its apparent to me, MCU is hitting a wall.
Anyone agree or like to add their thoughts?

Phase 1 was pretty underwhelming. I've said it before and I'll say it again Marvel has maybe 7 great films out of 30ish movies. The rest being average to Boring to out right bad...

But people largely gobbled them up.

[hyped78]

Phase 1 was pretty underwhelming. I've said it before and I'll say it again Marvel has maybe 7 great films out of 30ish movies. The rest being average to Boring to out right bad...

But people largely gobbled them up.

Iron Man, Captain America and the Avengers were underwhelming? I completely disagree; just my opinion.

[Sutekh]

Iron Man, Captain America and the Avengers were underwhelming? I completely disagree; just my opinion.

Thor (and Incredible Hulk, if that even counts) are the only ones I found disappointing. Captain America and Iron Man both surprised me with how much I liked them, and while I could pick a dozen specific things about Avengers I didn't love (no Wasp! just to pick one thing!), it blew me away with how many great moments it had, and. again, was just surprisingly good to me, considering I'm not the world's biggest Avengers fan.

[Menacer]

Iron Man, Captain America and the Avengers were underwhelming? I completely disagree; just my opinion.

Even if I give you Iron man and cap and Avengers it's still only like 7 films outta 24 ...

Hmm I dunno all the films are kindof watchable to boring but these are the stand out ones...

Phase 1
Mostly average or poor Films except maybe
Iron man maybe?
Captain America maybe?
Avengers maybe?

Phase 2 stand out Films
Winter soldier
GoTG

Phase 3
Thor Ragnarok
Infinity War

Phase 4???
No way home??
Love and Thunder??
Dr Strange MOM?

I don't think I've seen a single marvel film more then once outside GOTG. Which I've seen twice.

This is all the films thus far




The Infinity Saga

Phase One

• Iron Man (2008)

• The Incredible Hulk (2008)

• Iron Man 2 (2010)

• Thor (2011)

• Captain America: The First Avenger (2011)

• The Avengers (2012)

Phase Two

• Iron Man 3 (2013)

• Thor: The Dark World (2013)

• Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014)

• Guardians of the Galaxy (2014)

• Avengers: Age of Ultron (2015)

• Ant-Man (2015)

Phase Three

• Captain America: Civil War (2016)

• Doctor Strange (2016)

• Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 (2017)

• Spider-Man: Homecoming (2017)

• Thor: Ragnarok (2017)

• Black Panther (2018)

• Avengers: Infinity War (2018)

• Ant-Man and the Wasp (2018)

• Captain Marvel (2019)

• Avengers: Endgame (2019)

• Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019)

The Multiverse Saga

Phase Four

• Black Widow (2021)

• Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (2021)

• Eternals (2021)

• Spider-Man: No Way Home (2021)

• Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness (2022)

• Thor: Love and Thunder (2022)

• Black Panther 2 Wakanda Forever

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

This is all my opinion, so take from it what you like.
It appears evident to me, going all the way back to Phase 1, Marvel, had a clear direction in which they wanted to go.
Starting with Iron Man....the casting, writers & directors of all their characters seemed to be home runs.
And each movie built on the next, setting up the future & bigger picture.
It was so well done, even the post credit scenes with hints, were almost as popular as the movie & stories itself.
And I assume all 'godfathered' by Kevin Feige....it was an imagination machine with no stopping it.
But now with the close of phase 4........something seems .... off? Disjointed? Unclear? Disconnected?
You see what I am getting at.
To me, it almost seems Mr. Feige planned 3 stellar phases & stopped?
Or someone else we are not aware of took over plotting the course for the MCU?
Maybe Mr. Feige wanted a little break & entrusted someone else to chart it out?
Whatever the reason is, something is clearly off.
The direction & ideas of phase 4, don't seem to flow or lead to a logical end point, it's not cohesive.
It seems even more so with the cancellation of or rather, HUGE delays that have been announced with their movies.
Yes, I know they laid out a timeline leading to 2 more Avenger movies......but how the story & ideas connect (even using the Disney+ shows involvement) seem to be forced.
Maybe it's just me being spoiled with how well phases 1 to 3 were smooth, but its apparent to me, MCU is hitting a wall.
Anyone agree or like to add their thoughts?

I disagree because phase 1 is the only phase that felt like it had a plan and was moving towards it. Phase 2 felt like it was spinning its wheels till Ultron. I agree with Nando V Movies as Civil War felt like a better end to phase 2 than Age of Ultron. Phase 3 had a great beginning and end but mostly wobbles in the middle.

Ironically you could've done a whole phase between Infinity War and Endgame.

So far phase 4 just feels like a better version if phase 2 with more variety. But that variety lead to them spreading themselves thin with the various casts to juggle. So there is a side effect.

In a loose sense, phase 4 is about consequences and legacy. The multiverse is a way to explore that.

I don't think the MCU's greatest strength is it's plan but it's ability to adapt. Phase 4 is just testing how far it could adapt.

[mace11]

Ant-man was the end of phase 2.

[Peyton Westlake]

I will say I like the introduction of Namor into the MCU ( I did not see Black Panther 2 yet so can no comment on if it was succesful)
But I have always liked Namor as an anti-hero as he is portrayed in the comics.
He has a LOT of ties to the Avengers , Black Panther as well as the FF4, so he can be used in various ways if done properly.
I am not entirely sure about his ownership rights ( it seems muddled to me at best) but from what I understand he can be used like the Hulk as a supporting character in the MCU.
So I would assume a solo Namor movie is out of the question.
BUt when you think about it, if he is able to be on screen & tell a story within the MCU, does it matter if he doesnt get a solo film?
I mean , someone would be his adversary anyway.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

Ant-man was the end of phase 2.

This question isn't aimed at you specifically, but having just been reminded by your post...what did the first Ant-Man add to the overall "The Avengers will eventually fight and defeat Thanos" storyline?

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

This question isn't aimed at you specifically, but having just been reminded by your post...what did the first Ant-Man add to the overall "The Avengers will eventually fight and defeat Thanos" storyline?

Not much other than setting up the quantum realm but that was in the sequel. I'd say it's more about the fallout of Ultron than anything else.