Marvel phase 5 problem & critique

[CSTowle]

Saying “I don’t like it” is an understandable stance. I dislike some of it too, but I will call it out when I see personal opinions touted as widely held beliefs and anti-woke/anti-Disney agendas thinly disguised as fan concern. You can call it “white knighting” but its simply calling people on their bullsh*t. Especially when they aren’t even subtle about it.

It’s mind-boggling to me that people would come to a discussion forum to express an opinion and not expect some counter opinions. It’s not an echo chamber for people who just want to complain.

On the bolded, when people can't keep it to differences of opinion about the quality of work and instead need to conflate opposition with being anti-Disney (even though most of them enjoy other products, otherwise why care about the MCU nigh-on two decades in?) or "anti-woke" (see: racist/misogynist/homophobic) it's a problem.

It's not enough to disagree with their subjective opinion on the current Disney product output, they need to be inherently biased or outright evil. That's the problem with the internet, and humanity. The need to tear down people who don't agree with them and going way too far with it.

Do those people exist? Of course. Probably more than a few of them just looking to poke the bear and get a reaction (see those Youtube videos, easier to get clicks/views if there's "controversial" opinions). Do they represent everyone who says the current stuff is a step down from the last generation? Of course not, unless in your mind anyone who says anything bad about your favorite IP factory is a mustache-twirling villain, rather than someone who generally consumes the same or similar media you do and just happens to feel differently about it.

Not everything's a 10, and not every differing opinion needs to be a flame war. My original (and continuing) point is that this doesn't need to be personal. Yet, here we are.

[HollowSage]

On the bolded, when people can't keep it to differences of opinion about the quality of work and instead need to conflate opposition with being anti-Disney (even though most of them enjoy other products, otherwise why care about the MCU nigh-on two decades in?) or "anti-woke" (see: racist/misogynist/homophobic) it's a problem.

It's not enough to disagree with their subjective opinion on the current Disney product output, they need to be inherently biased or outright evil. That's the problem with the internet, and humanity. The need to tear down people who don't agree with them and going way too far with it.

Do those people exist? Of course. Probably more than a few of them just looking to poke the bear and get a reaction (see those Youtube videos, easier to get clicks/views if there's "controversial" opinions). Do they represent everyone who says the current stuff is a step down from the last generation? Of course not, unless in your mind anyone who says anything bad about your favorite IP factory is a mustache-twirling villain, rather than someone who generally consumes the same or similar media you do and just happens to feel differently about it.

Not everything's a 10, and not every differing opinion needs to be a flame war. My original (and continuing) point is that this doesn't need to be personal. Yet, here we are.

If there was a flame war or people making personal attacks then the mods would step in and shut it down. Luckily that hasn’t been needed here.

[Peyton Westlake]

It's a sub-brand of the Disney family. My point was it is a business, and that it's pay for entertainment, so your points aren't really new or contradictory to what I said. I just also pointed out that it's foolish to "white knight" for a mega-corporation who not only doesn't need moral support from randos on the internet, but doesn't give a damn about them (nor any criticisms they get from those fatigued with the glut of superhero products at the moment).

Saying, "I like it" (as you did) is an understandable stance. I like some of it too (see previous comments). But having any sort of emotional fragility because another poster has a differing opinion (in a thread meant to discuss the current quality of their output, no less) is mind-boggling to me.

If you like the popular thing, be happy you like the popular thing. Don't get mad at people who don't. I'm sure they wished they liked it as well, they just don't. How it happens sometimes.

On the bolded, when people can't keep it to differences of opinion about the quality of work and instead need to conflate opposition with being anti-Disney (even though most of them enjoy other products, otherwise why care about the MCU nigh-on two decades in?) or "anti-woke" (see: racist/misogynist/homophobic) it's a problem.

It's not enough to disagree with their subjective opinion on the current Disney product output, they need to be inherently biased or outright evil. That's the problem with the internet, and humanity. The need to tear down people who don't agree with them and going way too far with it.

Do those people exist? Of course. Probably more than a few of them just looking to poke the bear and get a reaction (see those Youtube videos, easier to get clicks/views if there's "controversial" opinions). Do they represent everyone who says the current stuff is a step down from the last generation? Of course not, unless in your mind anyone who says anything bad about your favorite IP factory is a mustache-twirling villain, rather than someone who generally consumes the same or similar media you do and just happens to feel differently about it.

Not everything's a 10, and not every differing opinion needs to be a flame war. My original (and continuing) point is that this doesn't need to be personal. Yet, here we are.

Well said CS. My hat's off to you.

[Peyton Westlake]

Your opinion isn't based on anything tangible z though. And they haven't said anything about the villain of Secret War at all. So there's a difference between having an opinion and jumping to conclusions.

I am basing my opinion on FACT of Marvel history.
That is not an opinion.
Secret Wars involves a different plot & villains all together.

[HollowSage]

I am basing my opinion on FACT of Marvel history.
That is not an opinion.
Secret Wars involves a different plot & villains all together.

Hey now! If you know the plot and villain line up of Secret Wars you should have led with that. By all means share with the class. So what happens? Don’t worry I don’t mind being spoiled.

[80sbaby]

I am basing my opinion on FACT of Marvel history.
That is not an opinion.
Secret Wars involves a different plot & villains all together.

Really? Please show me where you read the plot synopsis fir this film...I'll wait.

[Peyton Westlake]

Really? Please show me where you read the plot synopsis fir this film...I'll wait.

Secret Wars was a series back in the 80s. Over 35+ years ago.
1 of their more succesful ones at that.
Just like Infinity war was a series, (after Secret wars in terms of years)
So based on that, Its reasonable to assume that IS the plot.
Do you disagree?

[hyped78]

Secret Wars was a series back in the 80s. Over 35+ years ago.
1 of their more succesful ones at that.
Just like Infinity war was a series, (after Secret wars in terms of years)
So based on that, Its reasonable to assume that IS the plot.
Do you disagree?

Well, actually the Secret Wars MCU movie will be theoretically based on the 2015 Secret Wars saga, not on the 80s Secret Wars.

But the main point I would make is that the plot in MCU movies is quite different from the comic books events that share the same name. The MCU movies with Thanos were quite different from the Infinity Gauntlet and/or Infinity War comic books events. The general premise was somehow similar but there's just a LOT of differences vs. the comic books events. E.g. in the comic books, the main character was Adam Warlock, Thanos was initially working for Mistress Death, the six Infinity Gems were owned by five Elders plus the In-Betweener, etc. etc.

[Rincewind]

Secret Wars was a series back in the 80s. Over 35+ years ago.
1 of their more succesful ones at that.
Just like Infinity war was a series, (after Secret wars in terms of years)
So based on that, Its reasonable to assume that IS the plot.
Do you disagree?

I disagree.

I'm 99.9% certain that Secret Wars will be based on the 2015 Secret Wars event. Considering that Phases 4-6 are called the Multiverse Saga and Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness specifically talked about Incursions, it is clear that this is the plotline that is being built up.

[Peyton Westlake]

Well, actually the Secret Wars MCU movie will be theoretically based on the 2015 Secret Wars saga, not on the 80s Secret Wars.

But the main point I would make is that the plot in MCU movies is quite different from the comic books events that share the same name. The MCU movies with Thanos were quite different from the Infinity Gauntlet and/or Infinity War comic books events. The general premise was somehow similar but there's just a LOT of differences vs. the comic books events. E.g. in the comic books, the main character was Adam Warlock, Thanos was initially working for Mistress Death, the six Infinity Gems were owned by five Elders plus the In-Betweener, etc. etc.

Well that also may be true , and your point is valid.
As far as MCU changing their story somewhat , that is true. MOstly because some of their characters they couldnt use due to copyright problems to fit in the storyline.
But Secret Wars 2015 does mesh 2 universes together for Battleworld (?)
Either way, my point being was, I dont think Kang has anything to do with it, unless they totally overhaul the story for MCU

[thwhtGuardian]

Well that also may be true , and your point is valid.
As far as MCU changing their story somewhat , that is true. MOstly because some of their characters they couldnt use due to copyright problems to fit in the storyline.
But Secret Wars 2015 does mesh 2 universes together for Battleworld (?)
Either way, my point being was, I dont think Kang has anything to do with it, unless they totally overhaul the story for MCU

There are changes in any adaptation.

[80sbaby]

Well that also may be true , and your point is valid.
As far as MCU changing their story somewhat , that is true. MOstly because some of their characters they couldnt use due to copyright problems to fit in the storyline.
But Secret Wars 2015 does mesh 2 universes together for Battleworld (?)
Either way, my point being was, I dont think Kang has anything to do with it, unless they totally overhaul the story for MCU

Yes, just like they overhaul every comic storyline. The comic Infinity War was nothing like the film. That's why your issue is ridiculous and pure conjecture based on nothing. You really can't make the connection between a multiverse threat in Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars, which is about a threat to the multiverse? Lol

[The Kid]

Oversaturation is basically my issue. I feel like I'm mostly over the MCU until the next Spider-Man, FF, or Deadpool flick. Haven't seen Eternals, Thor 4, She-Hulk, or Ms. Marvel yet. Hell, I think I'm probably done with their Disney+ shows period since I found them all mediocre other than Wandavision. Just too much good television out there for me to be wasting my time with Marvel Studio's mediocre efforts on Disney+. I'll check out BP2 in theaters with my lady but the excitement is really gone. Endgame honestly just felt like a conclusion to me and only Spider-Man: NWH got me really excited since then.

[HollowSage]

Oversaturation is basically my issue. I feel like I'm mostly over the MCU until the next Spider-Man, FF, or Deadpool flick. Haven't seen Eternals, Thor 4, She-Hulk, or Ms. Marvel yet. Hell, I think I'm probably done with their Disney+ shows period since I found them all mediocre other than Wandavision. Just too much good television out there for me to be wasting my time with Marvel Studio's mediocre efforts on Disney+. I'll check out BP2 in theaters with my lady but the excitement is really gone. Endgame honestly just felt like a conclusion to me and only Spider-Man: NWH got me really excited since then.

That’s a rational response. You don’t need to watch everything. Pick the movies and shows that interest you. That’s just normal.

The only reason this topic keeps coming up is because some people can’t seem to accept that simple truth.

[krazijoe]

I disagree.

I'm 99.9% certain that Secret Wars will be based on the 2015 Secret Wars event. Considering that Phases 4-6 are called the Multiverse Saga and Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness specifically talked about Incursions, it is clear that this is the plotline that is being built up.

Yuck, there goes my interest in the movie...