Marvel phase 5 problem & critique

[CSTowle]

They're fighting a few things. For one, fatigue. They're still making money, and probably still will for a while, but the excitement level across the board for a new movie isn't as high as when it was novel to see a new character introduced to the MCU. Building to another Thanos is the smart move, and I think Kang can be that (and I don't think he'd be defeated in one movie for two reasons: 1. He's the king of time-lost minions and indirect fighting, including of the main characters, and 2. He's also the king of time-lost doubles and alternate versions so good luck defeating the "right" one, or ever being confident you did).

I'd say I may be the only living male on the planet not excited to hear about a possible Henry Cavill casting but if they don't **** that up Doctor Doom should be better than Thanos. So as far as universe-spanning threats, they're good for a bit. And that's before you get the X-Men established in the universe and have the Phoenix force to contend with, or the Fantastic Four (assuming coming in with Doom) to add Galactus/Surfer. So Thanos type story? I'm confident they'll be there, if fatigue doesn't kill the genre.

Another thing is they're throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks, but the real question is will anything that "sticks" be as interesting as RDJr as Iron Man? Maybe, but if fans are expected to get excited for an "Iron Man" who's not RDJr in an unknown actress as Ironheart (I'd say the smarter play is leaning on the vet Cheadle as Iron Man or even War Machine, who has shown he has massive range and can do the GotG comedy bits) or anyone else in the Black Panther role it might be too big an ask.

We also have the issue of self-parody, where this Guardians formula has gotten so stale they're kicking it up a notch and turning fans off as happened in Thor 4. There's nothing wrong with comedy, but there has to be balance (obligatory Thanos meme here).

While I'll say I've been disappointed with a lot of stuff that's come out lately I did really like Loki, Wandavision, What If?, Doctor Strange 2 (though I seem to be in the minority), and the Spider-Man movies. Can't like everything, or be interested in checking out everything even as a fan. I was watching the Werewolf by Night special the other day at my friend's insistence, and while it was OK/meh it occurred to me there was a time I would have been over the moon to see Man-Thing. Now, it's more of a "hope they don't treat this like a joke" feeling and his mere appearance doesn't move the needle at all.

On a positive note, if the thing I hear about introducing the X-Men individually in specials like Werewolf by Night is true I think it may be their smartest move yet. I don't think we need Wolverine, but getting people to love a Nightcrawler/Kitty Pryde/Storm/Gambit/etc. would definitely be helped with a spotlight on their stories and powers, and not just come in to non-comic audiences as just the latest in a line of Inhumans/Eternals/etc. There are the other movies, but that's a mixed bag at best.

[Peyton Westlake]

How is that different than IW and Endgame? And, again, the films aren't out not does either even have a synopsis so why are you making these assumptions?

Also, with only 3 posts, all about how the MCU has fallen...who's alt are you?

I cant have an opinion? What point are you not understanding?
IW & Endgame both featued Thanos as the main villain.
The 2 new Avengers movies seems like it will have different villains in each.

[Peyton Westlake]

So far, the MCU post Infinity Saga has been a complete dud for me - there hasn't been a single movie that has wowed me and the TV shows have been either "nice" or just weak (this is just my opinion)

I agree 100%

[80sbaby]

I cant have an opinion? What point are you not understanding?
IW & Endgame both featued Thanos as the main villain.
The 2 new Avengers movies seems like it will have different villains in each.

Your opinion isn't based on anything tangible z though. And they haven't said anything about the villain of Secret War at all. So there's a difference between having an opinion and jumping to conclusions.

[Phoenix Raptor]

My own take on post-P4-MCU is that Marvel/Disney are simply over-saturating the audience now.

Whilst on one hand, it's great that the stories of Wanda, Vision, Sam, Bucky, etc can be continued without having to wait years for the next movie to be released, the sheer amount of Marvel content that has been released on Disney+ since it launched is crazy. At certain points, it felt like a series ended then a movie came out a week later, then another series began a few weeks after that. And that's a lot of content for being to absorb.

Then there are the complaints about CGI in the series' (and, to one degree or another, in the movies now too) and they do have some validity. I've said many times that seeing She Hulk walking looked completely unnatural and that took me right out of the show.

As someone else mentioned, the GOTG "formula" that seems to be the blueprint now is an issue for me. Yes, throw some humour into the content but not to the level of Thor 4 for example! Not every property needs to be quipping endlessly... some actually need to be more serious and grounded. In all honesty, based on what I've seen so far post Endgame, I'm genuinely concerned for what they'll do with the X-Men when they get around to them; could we be looking at a bizarre situation where the Fox movies turn out to be the best that we get...?!

I personally feel that there's just too much available now and the quality is suffering for it. I'd rather see less and enjoy it more.

[hyped78]

My own take on post-P4-MCU is that Marvel/Disney are simply over-saturating the audience now.

Whilst on one hand, it's great that the stories of Wanda, Vision, Sam, Bucky, etc can be continued without having to wait years for the next movie to be released, the sheer amount of Marvel content that has been released on Disney+ since it launched is crazy. At certain points, it felt like a series ended then a movie came out a week later, then another series began a few weeks after that. And that's a lot of content for being to absorb.

Then there are the complaints about CGI in the series' (and, to one degree or another, in the movies now too) and they do have some validity. I've said many times that seeing She Hulk walking looked completely unnatural and that took me right out of the show.

As someone else mentioned, the GOTG "formula" that seems to be the blueprint now is an issue for me. Yes, throw some humour into the content but not to the level of Thor 4 for example! Not every property needs to be quipping endlessly... some actually need to be more serious and grounded. In all honesty, based on what I've seen so far post Endgame, I'm genuinely concerned for what they'll do with the X-Men when they get around to them; could we be looking at a bizarre situation where the Fox movies turn out to be the best that we get...?!

I personally feel that there's just too much available now and the quality is suffering for it. I'd rather see less and enjoy it more.

Over saturation and relying too much on comedy - agree. They've turned Thor into a stand-up comedian at this point.

I haven't seen CGI quality as an issue, IMO.

[Tofali]

I think people have rose colored glasses of the 1st 3 phases of Marvel..

100 % agree but you're going against the odyssey of recollection and the art of Mythmaking lol! but then again they are making too much content.

[Frontier]

My own take on post-P4-MCU is that Marvel/Disney are simply over-saturating the audience now.

Whilst on one hand, it's great that the stories of Wanda, Vision, Sam, Bucky, etc can be continued without having to wait years for the next movie to be released, the sheer amount of Marvel content that has been released on Disney+ since it launched is crazy. At certain points, it felt like a series ended then a movie came out a week later, then another series began a few weeks after that. And that's a lot of content for being to absorb.

Then there are the complaints about CGI in the series' (and, to one degree or another, in the movies now too) and they do have some validity. I've said many times that seeing She Hulk walking looked completely unnatural and that took me right out of the show.

As someone else mentioned, the GOTG "formula" that seems to be the blueprint now is an issue for me. Yes, throw some humour into the content but not to the level of Thor 4 for example! Not every property needs to be quipping endlessly... some actually need to be more serious and grounded. In all honesty, based on what I've seen so far post Endgame, I'm genuinely concerned for what they'll do with the X-Men when they get around to them; could we be looking at a bizarre situation where the Fox movies turn out to be the best that we get...?!

I personally feel that there's just too much available now and the quality is suffering for it. I'd rather see less and enjoy it more.

Shang-Chi really didn't need some of the jokes that were in it.

[Username taken]

Out of phase 4, the only movie I didn't like was Thor 4.

Black Widow wasn't great but it wasn't a train wreck. Shang-Chi was actually very good (it's interesting how people seem to forget all about the movie when criticizing phase 4) but the big CGI battle at the end wasn't necessary. Shang vs Wenwu alone would have been an excellent end to the movie.

I like MoM as a movie but it wasn't a "proper" Dr. Strange movie (it's a modern-day movie phenomenon that's really an entire discussion of its own).

The TV series have been a mixed bag for me, the one I like best of all the TV series is Moon Knight. The rest have been ok.

[Username taken]

Over saturation and relying too much on comedy - agree. They've turned Thor into a stand-up comedian at this point.

I haven't seen CGI quality as an issue, IMO.

Same here.

Apart from She-Hulk (which had some weird-looking CGI at some points), I don't really have a problem with the CG thus far.

Although that could be something subjective. Case in point, I've heard some people complain about the CGI in Black Adam when to me it looks pretty good.

[Frontier]

Out of phase 4, the only movie I didn't like was Thor 4.

Black Widow wasn't great but it wasn't a train wreck. Shang-Chi was actually very good (it's interesting how people seem to forget all about the movie when criticizing phase 4) but the big CGI battle at the end wasn't necessary. Shang vs Wenwu alone would have been an excellent end to the movie.

I like MoM as a movie but it wasn't a "proper" Dr. Strange movie (it's a modern-day movie phenomenon that's really an entire discussion of its own).

The TV series have been a mixed bag for me, the one I like best of all the TV series is Moon Knight. The rest have been ok.

I think that's peoples' main issue with it. The climax really did not need a Kaiju fight because we were all invested in Shang-Chi versus his dad, not some supernatural monster.

I think MoM had some cool stuff but I think there were a lot of plotting/character issues...to the point where even the actors complained about it. And, like you said, it didn't really have a lot of Dr. Strange stuff for a movie with him in the title. Clea doesn't even show up until a tacked on mid-credits scene.

[HollowSage]

As someone else mentioned, the GOTG "formula" that seems to be the blueprint now is an issue for me.

Why do people keep saying this?

There was humor and quipping in Marvel movies before GOTG. RDJ perfected it as Tony Stark. Ant-Man was doing it and Spider-Man is famous for it. Marvel didn’t even start it. It’s long been an integral part of blockbuster action movies. Arnold practically built his career on it.

James Gunn and Taika Watiti may be guilty of overusing it but it’s not some Marvel exclusive thing. Just look at their other work outside Marvel.

GOTG gets too much credit/blame.

[Zero Hunter]

I've enjoyed Phase 4 but I feel like whether because they're doing so much or because of COVID, there isn't quite the quality control or consistency that was there in the earlier Phases because we've got so many Disney+ shows and new movies coming out and the past few Marvel films and even some of the shows have been criticized for script/story issues (and wonky FX).

Some criticism is legit, but a big chunk of it is just whinnny asshats. Those trolls who are going to hate everything Marvel no matter what just because it so popular, and those guys love to make noise on the internet. A lot of the criticism boils down to "well I didn't like the direction they went with the story so it garbage and woke". Not saying there are not things that could have been better but at this point that is buried under the bullshit of trolls.

[Username taken]

I think that's peoples' main issue with it. The climax really did not need a Kaiju fight because we were all invested in Shang-Chi versus his dad, not some supernatural monster.

I think MoM had some cool stuff but I think there were a lot of plotting/character issues...to the point where even the actors complained about it. And, like you said, it didn't really have a lot of Dr. Strange stuff for a movie with him in the title. Clea doesn't even show up until a tacked on mid-credits scene.

Yeah, MoM was just not a Dr.Strange movie.

It's telling that Cumberbatch said a number of times in interviews that he was worried about the character's arc in the movie.

It won't be an exaggeration to say that Wanda's plot and character basically initiated the conflict in the movie, drove said conflict, and ultimately resolved it (while receiving a few punches to the head). Wanda ultimately went through an arc on the movie while Stephen really didn't.

Maybe the movie should have been called "The MCU Presents" or something because it was hardly a Dr Strange movie.

[HollowSage]

I think MoM had some cool stuff but I think there were a lot of plotting/character issues...to the point where even the actors complained about it. And, like you said, it didn't really have a lot of Dr. Strange stuff for a movie with him in the title. Clea doesn't even show up until a tacked on mid-credits scene.

Not enough Dr. Strange stuff?

We get Defender Strange at the start trying to get the book of Vishanti. We get an epic Strange and Wong fight against giant eyeball tentacle thing. We get Strange, Wong and the others defending Khamar Taj against Wanda. Strange meets alternate Mordo and finds out what happened to alternate Strange. Strange and alternate Mordo fight. Strange confronts and fights another evil Strange. Strange uses the Darkhold to possess the dead body of Defender Strange to confront Wanda.

That’s not enough Dr. Strange?