Clone Saga discussion

[Xwho]

The Clone saga has been criticised for having to many mysteries, going on too long and saying the spider man for twenty years,give or take, was a clone but had there not been two much interference and had Ben Reilly Been allowed to become Peter Parker it may have become accepted as sales may have still have good when Ben was Spider man.
We could have have avoided one more day and Chasm.

It could have been a happy end for the Peter who married Mary Jane with their child and it also could have been a very exciting new beginning for spider man but instead they went back on the reveal.

They brought back Norman Osborn who may have been someone who haunted Peter who shadow was now cast over the Hobgoblin who may have been considered one of spider man biggest foes.

It can make me feel upset and disappointed over it my self and maybe bitter because of certain choices and that it could have been avoided.

I wish the best and everything have been done to have made Ben work out as the original then we could know if it could have stuck.

[Sam-Abraham]

I love Ben Reilly and Kaine Parker. They're respectively my favorite comic book character and my favorite recent addition to the Spider-Man mythos (with Miles Morales).

However, looking back at the clone saga, I wish it was crystal clear Ben was not the original Peter Parker. It cheapened both Ben's newfound identity and Peter's trials and tribulations since the 70s (Jean DeWolfe's death, the mariage with MJ, KLH, Venom, Maximum Carnage should be Peter's adventures, not Peter's clone adventures).

If I had to sum up what I feel about this, it's that it feels less personal when Peter's dead parents come back to life (as androids but still) to torment Peter only to learn a few years later that it wasn't the real Peter. Just his clone.

Ben was fine being Peter Parker's clone. He made his own life with his own choices and he was happy. Ben was Peter's brother and they had an incredible chemistry. He had this charming bravery as the Scarlet Spider and a happy-go-lucky attitude as Spider-Man that made him my favorite Spider-Man.

What makes Ben great is his identity dilemma: he is an alive 616 "What if..?" of Peter. I loved his adventures as the second Spider-Man in the 90s. He felt to me as a mix of Wally West as the Flash and Dick Grayson as Batman.

What I wish happened throughout the 90s Clone Saga would be that Ben knew he was Peter's clone and that Peter and MJ stuck around NYC while Ben was Spider-Man. My favorite issues were the ones where the Powerless Peter was Ben's "guy in the chair", guiding him, advising him and checking up on him (for e.g during the Skeleton arc or the Spider-Carnage arc).

This was the way fans and Marvel could have their cake and eat it too! Think about Ben Reilly as the relatable, down on his luck, happy-go-lucky Spider-Man whereas Peter was the down-to-earth, grown-up married man with a baby on his way. Peter and MJ would be a central part of Ben's support cast, like they were in the end of the 90s Clone Saga. And eventually, little Mayday would be his niece.

This is why this panel is my favorite panel on any Spider-Man comic book.

[Xwho]

I love Ben Reilly and Kaine Parker. They're respectively my favorite comic book character and my favorite recent addition to the Spider-Man mythos (with Miles Morales).

However, looking back at the clone saga, I wish it was crystal clear Ben was not the original Peter Parker. It cheapened both Ben's newfound identity and Peter's trials and tribulations since the 70s (Jean DeWolfe's death, the mariage with MJ, KLH, Venom, Maximum Carnage should be Peter's adventures, not Peter's clone adventures).

If I had to sum up what I feel about this, it's that it feels less personal when Peter's dead parents come back to life (as androids but still) to torment Peter only to learn a few years later that it wasn't the real Peter. Just his clone.

Ben was fine being Peter Parker's clone. He made his own life with his own choices and he was happy. Ben was Peter's brother and they had an incredible chemistry. He had this charming bravery as the Scarlet Spider and a happy-go-lucky attitude as Spider-Man that made him my favorite Spider-Man.

What makes Ben great is his identity dilemma: he is an alive 616 "What if..?" of Peter. I loved his adventures as the second Spider-Man in the 90s. He felt to me as a mix of Wally West as the Flash and Dick Grayson as Batman.

What I wish happened throughout the 90s Clone Saga would be that Ben knew he was Peter's clone and that Peter and MJ stuck around NYC while Ben was Spider-Man. My favorite issues were the ones where the Powerless Peter was Ben's "guy in the chair", guiding him, advising him and checking up on him (for e.g during the Skeleton arc or the Spider-Carnage arc).

This was the way fans and Marvel could have their cake and eat it too! Think about Ben Reilly as the relatable, down on his luck, happy-go-lucky Spider-Man whereas Peter was the down-to-earth, grown-up married man with a baby on his way. Peter and MJ would be a central part of Ben's support cast, like they were in the end of the 90s Clone Saga. And eventually, little Mayday would be his niece.

This is why this panel is my favorite panel on any Spider-Man comic book.

If enough people were buying the issues when Ben was spider man and said to be the original then it may have been able to work at least if he took on the Peter Parker identity.

[Matt Rat]

We got Spider-Girl out of it, which is the real end to me, so there's that.

[boots]

However, looking back at the clone saga, I wish it was crystal clear Ben was not the original Peter Parker. It cheapened both Ben's newfound identity and Peter's trials and tribulations since the 70s (Jean DeWolfe's death, the mariage with MJ, KLH, Venom, Maximum Carnage should be Peter's adventures, not Peter's clone adventures).

i know i'm heavily in the minority of people who loved it. i don't feel it cheapened either character, it actually made me more fascinated in peter's classic stories thinking of them as his clone's adventures. if anything it drove home the point that a clone would be no less than an "original".

at the same time, i get why i'm in the minority.

This was the way fans and Marvel could have their cake and eat it too! Think about Ben Reilly as the relatable, down on his luck, happy-go-lucky Spider-Man whereas Peter was the down-to-earth, grown-up married man with a baby on his way. Peter and MJ would be a central part of Ben's support cast, like they were in the end of the 90s Clone Saga. And eventually, little Mayday would be his niece.

it would've been a fun period and possibly one that lasted longer than what we got, even if i personally prefer the idea of ben forging/reforging his spider-man identity himself.

i do think the internal pressures to return peter parker to the protagonist role would have brought that about eventually, but maybe ben wouldn't have been so unceremoniously disposed of if the question of "who is the clone" was never even a question.

[HypnoHustler]

i know i'm heavily in the minority of people who loved it.

Hmmn... not sure about that anymore. Being involved in Spidey messageboard forums for over two decades, it seems the busiest non-Peter threads (perhaps only second to ones about Miles or Venom) have to do with Ben Reilly and other characters from the Clone Saga. And whenever anything new about Ben appears in solicits, fans still pore over every detail even though we've been burned so many times. Whenever there's one person piling on the clone saga or its characters online, it always prompts half a dozen counter-posts or spirited defenses as well. I think all this stuff is way more popular than is readily acknowledged. The Powers That Be have definitely conceded it's popular enough to do a number of Ben and Kaine stories over the last decade (mixed quality they may be), and while Marvel pros used to discuss the Clone Saga in mocking or dismissive ways, nowadays when Spidey writers are asked about it they usually profess some fondness for that era or its characters. Just my 2 Cents.

[boots]

Hmmn... not sure about that anymore. Being involved in Spidey messageboard forums for over two decades, it seems the busiest non-Peter threads (perhaps only second to ones about Miles or Venom) have to do with Ben Reilly and other characters from the Clone Saga. And whenever anything new about Ben appears in solicits, fans still pore over every detail even though we've been burned so many times. Whenever there's one person piling on the clone saga or its characters online, it always prompts half a dozen counter-posts or spirited defenses as well. I think all this stuff is way more popular than is readily acknowledged. The Powers That Be have definitely conceded it's popular enough to do a number of Ben and Kaine stories over the last decade (mixed quality they may be), and while Marvel pros used to discuss the Clone Saga in mocking or dismissive ways, nowadays when Spidey writers are asked about it they usually profess some fondness for that era or its characters. Just my 2 Cents.

ah, yeah...i agree with that. the clone saga has surprised a lot of people with its staying power and appreciation/nostalgia. the fact that it was covered in life story as one of the milestones (notorious or not) made a lot of sense to me

i think i might not have been clear: i loved that peter was the clone and i'd happily have kept that as the status quo (at the time). it oddly endeared him even more to me. that's something i feel i might find less online support for? but who knows.

[HypnoHustler]

ah, yeah...i agree with that. the clone saga has surprised a lot of people with its staying power and appreciation/nostalgia. the fact that it was covered in life story as one of the milestones (notorious or not) made a lot of sense to me

i think i might not have been clear: i loved that peter was the clone and i'd happily have kept that as the status quo (at the time). it oddly endeared him even more to me. that's something i feel i might find less online support for? but who knows.

Oh okay, I did indeed misunderstand (that’s what I get for skimming). Yeah, I personally prefer Ben as the clone… although I think Peter doubting whether he was the original was a journey he had to go through… though the execution of the reveal (Spec #226 + Maximum Clonage) could certainly have been handled better as I’ve discussed before.

[Sr. Bungle]

ah, yeah...i agree with that. the clone saga has surprised a lot of people with its staying power and appreciation/nostalgia. the fact that it was covered in life story as one of the milestones (notorious or not) made a lot of sense to me

i think i might not have been clear: i loved that peter was the clone and i'd happily have kept that as the status quo (at the time). it oddly endeared him even more to me. that's something i feel i might find less online support for? but who knows.

I felt that way too, at the time. So there are two of us at least.

[David Walton]

I'm ultimately glad that Peter wasn't the clone, and also that we got Ben Reilly!

I wish Ben hadn't met a terrible end and that post-Clone Saga writers realized that a Peter Parker clone who lost everything in a single moment and built his life back up from scratch is a cool concept and he doesn't need to be a villain to be interesting.

[Huntsman Spider]

I'm ultimately glad that Peter wasn't the clone, and also that we got Ben Reilly!

I wish Ben hadn't met a terrible end and that post-Clone Saga writers realized that a Peter Parker clone who lost everything in a single moment and built his life back up from scratch is a cool concept and he doesn't need to be a villain to be interesting.

Generally cosigned, and I had the idea that all of Peter's major clones reflected or addressed some aspect of his own character and psyche. Ben was Peter's zeal for life that Peter had slightly lost touch with due to then-recent tragedies and hardships in his life that set him on a rather self-destructive path. Kaine was what could have happened if Peter had chosen to surrender more fully to his darker impulses and didn't have the positive memories or influences that Ben and Peter did. Spidercide was what could have happened if Ben or Kaine had come out the way the Jackal intended, purely a living weapon and tool for his misguided revenge on Peter, and also represented a Spider-Man without Peter Parker's humanity to keep him grounded and moral.

[Reilly]

I love it. Ben Reilly is my favourite Marvel and comic book character. He's my Spider-Man and he will always be. Clone Saga isn't perfect, but it gave us amazing characters and some stories written in that time are top notch (not all of them, obviously).

Turning him into a villain is lame. It's a crime. It's mega crap.

[Huntsman Spider]

I love it. Ben Reilly is my favourite Marvel and comic book character. He's my Spider-Man and he will always be. Clone Saga isn't perfect, but it gave us amazing characters and some stories written in that time are top notch (not all of them, obviously).

Turning him into a villain is lame. It's a crime. It's mega crap.

Somehow, I hear that last part in J.K. Simmons' voice as J. Jonah Jameson from the first Sam Raimi Spider-Man movie when evaluating Peter's pictures of (himself as) Spider-Man.

[Xwho]

Was the Scarlet Spider ever as popular as venom at all?

[Mister Mets]

Was the Scarlet Spider ever as popular as venom at all?

No.

That said, he did end up carrying multiple monthly titles for about a year, which is a rare trait in comics.