Tim Drake: Robin #2 Preview

[OBrianTallent]

I'm honestly expecting her to not even bother with that. Fitzmartin keeps telling us, rather than showing us and while excusable when writing short stories, it's become a bad habit of hers.

I'm sorry for that cynicism but I've lost faith in Fitzmartin's writing abilities over time. Which is funny, because check out Robin Eternal, it feels very different.

I actually thought Robin Eternal was pretty good and was looking forward to seeing what she could do with Tim and with Young Justice. Both of these books though, feel as if they have been written by a 15 year old with absolutely zero depth or development.
I do wish that DC would have given Tim a book and then developed the relationship between Tim and Bernard over several issues there rather than just go whole in after just a few pages. Likewise, the push has been a "bisexual" Tim Drake. There's been nothing Bi about the character or writing...there's no tension between Tim, Bernard and Steph...it's just Tim all googoo eyed over Bernard...who has zero personality. (To be fair, the same can almost be said for Jon Kent, the "Bi-Superman" who hasn't been written as bi at all.)
The worst injury to the character (and characters of Young Justice) hasn't been about the sexuality at all, it's been the lack of any kind of depth to the characters, any kind of relatability, the lack of history, the lack of creativity. At least Dark Crisis: Young Justice has Laura Braga on art, who it seems is attempting to mimic Todd Nauck's work, even though her own style is fairly close to his as is, there seems to have been some amount of conscious effort to mimic his style. The art on Tim Drake Robin has been absolutely dreadful....the writing MIGHT have been able to be overlooked (a little) if the art were better (and it doesn't seem to be improving any time soon as the cover artist is set to do interiors with issue 6 I think.)

The biggest problem I fear in all this is DC looking at the reception of these two books and saying it's the characters that people are reacting to and not the poor writing, despite overwhelming vocal internet presence to the contrary. I realize it's a new regime at DC...however that's still the fear.

[ChangingStation]

I actually thought Robin Eternal was pretty good and was looking forward to seeing what she could do with Tim and with Young Justice. Both of these books though, feel as if they have been written by a 15 year old with absolutely zero depth or development.
I do wish that DC would have given Tim a book and then developed the relationship between Tim and Bernard over several issues there rather than just go whole in after just a few pages. Likewise, the push has been a "bisexual" Tim Drake. There's been nothing Bi about the character or writing...there's no tension between Tim, Bernard and Steph...it's just Tim all googoo eyed over Bernard...who has zero personality. (To be fair, the same can almost be said for Jon Kent, the "Bi-Superman" who hasn't been written as bi at all.)
The worst injury to the character (and characters of Young Justice) hasn't been about the sexuality at all, it's been the lack of any kind of depth to the characters, any kind of relatability, the lack of history, the lack of creativity. At least Dark Crisis: Young Justice has Laura Braga on art, who it seems is attempting to mimic Todd Nauck's work, even though her own style is fairly close to his as is, there seems to have been some amount of conscious effort to mimic his style. The art on Tim Drake Robin has been absolutely dreadful....the writing MIGHT have been able to be overlooked (a little) if the art were better (and it doesn't seem to be improving any time soon as the cover artist is set to do interiors with issue 6 I think.)

The biggest problem I fear in all this is DC looking at the reception of these two books and saying it's the characters that people are reacting to and not the poor writing, despite overwhelming vocal internet presence to the contrary. I realize it's a new regime at DC...however that's still the fear.

Pretty understandable. We all remember what things were like under Dan Didio's editorial and I get that he was only part of the problem, but we're not quite certain how much things have changed yet.

As for Robin Eternal, you're absolutely right, it felt like a much better story, even if it had flaws, which makes me wonder why the shift in quality.

[Talon1load]

Deleted because I forgot o add the quote I was responding too.

[Talon1load]

That's the strategy I perceive here as well - and in general, in both this and in Fitzmartin's Young Justice book, there's a clear, conscious decision to try appealing to readers DC and Fitzmartin see as neglected by previous DC books with those properties. Their supposition with Young Justice is that women feel neglected by books like the old Young Justice one, and thus would be appealed to by calling out conventional comic book sexism repeatedly and coloring everything in her book as a progressive strike back against that sexism and regression; similarly, the supposition with Tim's book is that LGBTQ+ readers are wary and untrusting of DC's commitment to making Tim bi, and that expositing on the alienation and loneliness sometimes experienced by non-straight people will be a key appeal to that demographic.

The debate then becomes whether or not DC and Fitzmartin are picking the right "battles" with these tactics.

I'm a straight dude, so I don't have any authority here... but it does seem like Fitzmartin is plotting a formulaic fanfiction type of "gay angst" into the story when the rest of DC isn't backing her up here; she's trying to use formulas of isolation and estrangement when DC is elsewhere going to show the Bat family accepting Tim and Bernard without any issue... undermining her writing.

At the same time, her seeming preference for putting "fanfiction" formulas into the comics risks further alienating both older but accepting demographics on one side but also some of the demographics she's trying to appeal to; fanfiction is not known for its depth or creative use of continuity after all - if anything, it's infamous for its ability to ignore both. In Young Justice, her seeming disregard for how progressively written Cassie was at the time, or how comparatively inoffensive inclusive the PAD series was "for the time" causes offense to some of the women she's trying to appeal to who know the characters better than her, while in this Tim Drake books she risks alienating fans who were ready for bisexual Tim Drake by taking shortcuts and emphasizing traumas that the character doesn't have to experience and that some LGBTQ+ readers may very well be reading comics to escape...

But again, I'm a straight white guy, so I have no real authority here to speak.

I just think that fanfiction writing tactics are likely a poor substitute for finding a more devoted fan who's progressive or part of the LGBTQ+ community instead.

Dude, it doesn’t matter if you’re a straight white guy. You’re still entitled to call out shitty writing when you see it. You don’t have to make it seem like some sort of apology that you have an opinion.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

That's the strategy I perceive here as well - and in general, in both this and in Fitzmartin's Young Justice book, there's a clear, conscious decision to try appealing to readers DC and Fitzmartin see as neglected by previous DC books with those properties. Their supposition with Young Justice is that women feel neglected by books like the old Young Justice one, and thus would be appealed to by calling out conventional comic book sexism repeatedly and coloring everything in her book as a progressive strike back against that sexism and regression; similarly, the supposition with Tim's book is that LGBTQ+ readers are wary and untrusting of DC's commitment to making Tim bi, and that expositing on the alienation and loneliness sometimes experienced by non-straight people will be a key appeal to that demographic.

The debate then becomes whether or not DC and Fitzmartin are picking the right "battles" with these tactics.

I'm a straight dude, so I don't have any authority here... but it does seem like Fitzmartin is plotting a formulaic fanfiction type of "gay angst" into the story when the rest of DC isn't backing her up here; she's trying to use formulas of isolation and estrangement when DC is elsewhere going to show the Bat family accepting Tim and Bernard without any issue... undermining her writing.

At the same time, her seeming preference for putting "fanfiction" formulas into the comics risks further alienating both older but accepting demographics on one side but also some of the demographics she's trying to appeal to; fanfiction is not known for its depth or creative use of continuity after all - if anything, it's infamous for its ability to ignore both. In Young Justice, her seeming disregard for how progressively written Cassie was at the time, or how comparatively inoffensive inclusive the PAD series was "for the time" causes offense to some of the women she's trying to appeal to who know the characters better than her, while in this Tim Drake books she risks alienating fans who were ready for bisexual Tim Drake by taking shortcuts and emphasizing traumas that the character doesn't have to experience and that some LGBTQ+ readers may very well be reading comics to escape...

But again, I'm a straight white guy, so I have no real authority here to speak.

I just think that fanfiction writing tactics are likely a poor substitute for finding a more devoted fan who's progressive or part of the LGBTQ+ community instead.

I mean in her attempts she is underminding her own work. Her writing of Cissie just centers her around male characters and invalidates her whole story apart from the male characters. Not to mention it is creating forced drama and animosity between Cissie and Cassie which the original series didn't do it all and again reinforces a stereotype. Not to mention how she used Steph as a damsel and prop in the Tim pride special and her exclusion of Empress in Dark Crisis YJ and labelling her as one of the villains........

[DABellWrites]

I mean in her attempts she is underminding her own work. Her writing of Cissie just centers her around male characters and invalidates her whole story apart from the male characters. Not to mention it is creating forced drama and animosity between Cissie and Cassie which the original series didn't do it all and again reinforces a stereotype. Not to mention how she used Steph as a damsel and prop in the Tim pride special and her exclusion of Empress in Dark Crisis YJ and labelling her as one of the villains........

It happen did for like a page or two. Cassie was jealous over Superboy's attention to Cissie. After Cissie told off the Justice League they became friends. Best friendship...

[NOCTPHOENIX]

It did for like a page or two. Cassie was jealous over Superboy's attention to Cissie. After Cissie told off the Justice League they became friends. Best friendship...

The point of that in the original series was to make it look like they would conflict over a boy but then to subvert it almost instantly.

[ChangingStation]

The point of that in the original series was to make it look like they would conflict over a boy but then to subvert it almost instantly.

I don't think they were really criticising it, so much as noting why it was so good.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

I don't think they were really criticising it, so much as noting why it was so good.

Oh in my case then my bad.