Preferred X-Force Leader: Cable or Logan

[JB]

Yeah, that’s fair. I really love the new dynamic Ewing has established in this regard between Nathan and John Proudstar. It’s like a fresh take on the old Scott and Logan rivalry. Would love to see more of it.

Exactly, great comparison. In fact, the dynamic between Cable and Thunderbird is one of the things I'm really looking forward to in the coming issues of Red. A little over one week!

[Jackraow21]

Tbh that one is one of the key examples I’d give of him not being a good leader lol. That team presided over a spiralling series of disasters and were constantly at each other’s throats, and Logan’s response to all this is kind of like a gruff P.E. teacher advising them to “walk it off”.

Fair point, but that was also the story Remender was telling… basically it was a “he (or she) who lives by the sword dies by the sword” type tale. Where everything went downhill from that first terrible sin where Fantomex pulled the trigger and killed the child clone of En Sabah Nur. So it was never going to go any other way, and Logan’s leadership wasn’t really to blame. At least IMO.

And obviously that’s separate from his current penchant for going off on solo missions because he “doesn’t trust” X-Force and Krakoa. Dude, you’re the field leader of X-Force and the government of Krakoa is practically run by your boyfriend and girlfriend.

Now this one I agree with wholeheartedly. The inconsistency in Logan’s character between Wolverine and X-Force, and this issue in particular of not trusting his own government or his team, makes him a poor fit to lead the mutant CIA. You can’t have it both ways, Percy. Either Logan is the Nick Fury of the mutant world or he’s a lone rogue operator. I could see a more talented writer balancing this better (after all, Fury does do solo spy $#!t sometimes too) but Percy really struggles with team books clearly. And this X-Force is not very good at their job. At all.

Exactly, great comparison. In fact, the dynamic between Cable and Thunderbird is one of the things I'm really looking forward to in the coming issues of Red. A little over one week!

Yep. My birthday week we will see Cable spring his trap for Brand, and meet his own X-men Red team. John is on it. No doubt. That will be fun. Can’t wait for November 2nd!

[numberthirty]

Between the two?

Probably Cable.

Actual preference?

Pete Wisdom.

[Jackraow21]

Forgot about Pete Wisdom. Always liked the character. Didn’t love the run where he was over the X-Force team, though. I can’t even remember it honestly. Though I do remember Portacio being the artist. And Warpath flying for some reason. Ha.

Wisdom showed up in Spurrier’s run as part of MI6, when X-Force was actually acting as mutant CIA.

[Sutekh]

Yeah, that’s fair. I really love the new dynamic Ewing has established in this regard between Nathan and John Proudstar. It’s like a fresh take on the old Scott and Logan rivalry. Would love to see more of it.

Yeah, it also makes a neat contrast between John and James Proudstar, given that the younger one was one of Cable's original X-Force 'soldiers,' and John was 'Sir-doesn't-play-well-with-others' even before Wolverine made it cool.

[Krakoa]

Personally, my favorite X-Force run (John Francis Moore!) doesn't have either of them leading.

[K7P5V]

No 90's character had a bigger downgrade then Sam when he 'graduated' to being on the X-Men from having been leader of X-Force.

Agreed. That fall was precipitous (IMHO):

[Whim]

if it's not Sam or Cable to me it's not X-Force.

Wolverine is not a leader and should stick to his own thing.

It was weird how Sam was all of a sudden inexperienced kid on the X-Men but he did have some good moments. Then coming back to X-Force was kinda awkward.

[From The Shadows]

It was weird how Sam was all of a sudden inexperienced kid on the X-Men but he did have some good moments. Then coming back to X-Force was kinda awkward.

He was afraid of Xavier and hiding in a tree in the X-Men. Either they weren't updated on Sam's changes or they ignored them and didn't want him to grow as he was a rival to the x-men in the past.

I haven't read that much X-Force outside of John Francis Moore. I really enjoyed that run, so I won't be able to participate in this poll for obvious reasons.

[Uncanny X-Man]

He was afraid of Xavier and hiding in a tree in the X-Men. Either they weren't updated on Sam's changes or they ignored them and didn't want him to grow as he was a rival to the x-men in the past.

I haven't read that much X-Force outside of John Francis Moore. I really enjoyed that run, so I won't be able to participate in this poll for obvious reasons.

It was shameful of Scott Lobdell, who had been there all along when Fabian Nicieza was writing Sam in X-Force, to ignore all the growth he had experienced the moment he joined the X-Men. From the next leader of mutantkind, taught by Charles Xavier, Magneto and Cable, to being awe-struck when boarding the Blackbird. I don't think Sam ever recovered from it.

[JB]

Agreed. That fall was precipitous (IMHO):

Brings back such great memories. I loved that era of X-Force.

[Jackraow21]

It was shameful of Scott Lobdell, who had been there all along when Fabian Nicieza was writing Sam in X-Force, to ignore all the growth he had experienced the moment he joined the X-Men. From the next leader of mutantkind, taught by Charles Xavier, Magneto and Cable, to being awe-struck when boarding the Blackbird. I don't think Sam ever recovered from it.

Fair point. Huge character regression, and I don’t think he’s fully recovered… though being an Avenger for a bit helped. I think that was under Ewing too.

It did lead to some great interactions between Sam and Logan (especially the Juggernaut issue of Wolverine), but it did feel off to me with Logan being his mentor and taking him under his wing after Xavier, Magneto and then Cable had already been there-done that and molded him into a fine leader. At that stage he was certainly a more accomplished leader than Logan himself. The latter was still very much the lone wolf operator who was a bit of a loose cannon.

if it's not Sam or Cable to me it's not X-Force.

Wolverine is not a leader and should stick to his own thing.

It is interesting that the three X-Force incarnations led by Logan were all at periods where Cable was dead or otherwise preoccupied elsewhere. When the post-Messiah Complex X-Force was formed (which was actually created and staffed with trackers specifically to go after Cable and the baby mutant messiah in that event, and then of course continued after MC), Cable was off in the future protecting and raising Hope. During Uncanny X-Force Vol. 1, he was presumed dead after the events of Second Coming. And then in the current Krakoan incarnation, he was a teenager when it started, having terminated his older self in the events of EXtermination. And the adult version (“the OG”) was only brought back pretty recently.

So I do think it kind of became Logan’s team by default for this reason. And while I loved the K+Y run a lot, to me some of the best parts as mentioned above were when they interacted with Cable (during the Messiah War crossover between Cable and X-Force and also during Second Coming). If I take a minute and think of how awesome Uncanny X-Force was… and then how much more awesome it could’ve been if Nathan wasn’t dead, considering his long history with Apocalypse (and also his relationships with Deadpool and Logan)… man, I get chills. Would love for a reunion of that team that includes Cable honestly. Or something close to it. Maybe when they shake up the current X-Force book and liberate it from Percy. *fingers crossed*

[IN-a-Synch]

I am going to say Logan, I love Cable i just felt he was always harsh on his guys. I say that to say he treated them like soldiers and not human beings. Hope included. I get it he doesn't want his past to become the future. Sure logan pinned Laura to a tree (not good), but he showed more empathy towards his guys than Nate. In my opinion.

[Jackraow21]

Not sure I agree with that. He was tough on the younger kids initially, but that was very clearly shown to come from a place of caring and love and wanting them to be prepared for the future that was coming. Which was repeatedly shown in that book, and they loved him for it too. Just look how happy they are to see him alive again in X-Force #25 during Fatal Attractions…

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So I don’t think Nathan ever pushed them harder than they could go, which is the mark of a good leader. Not a bad one.

I’ll admit he was pretty rough during the Spurrier run, but that was explained by Dr. Nemesis as being a result of him repeatedly cloning himself via an imperfect process and thus his moral compass continued to degrade with each cloning. It was so bad that Hope even kicked him off his own team by the end! Thus I’ll concede he was pretty bad (and even Beast like) in that one. Fair point.

[king81992]

Tbh that one is one of the key examples I’d give of him not being a good leader lol. That team presided over a spiralling series of disasters and were constantly at each other’s throats, and Logan’s response to all this is kind of like a gruff P.E. teacher advising them to “walk it off”.

And obviously that’s separate from his current penchant for going off on solo missions because he “doesn’t trust” X-Force and Krakoa. Dude, you’re the field leader of X-Force and the government of Krakoa is practically run by your boyfriend and girlfriend.

Based on what we've seen of current X Force(mostly due to Beast) and Krakoa's government, Logan is RIGHT not to trust them.