Ant-Man and The Wasp: Quantumania

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I mean, there's also the small detail that the Exiled One was not actually defeated by just Ant Man (Scott Lang). He was defeated by a team of the original and second Ant Man and original and second Wasp, plus Stature. It absolutely was not a 1 on 1 fight. It seemed pretty clear it took all of them working together, plus some luck, to beat him -- which I'd agree makes for a good introduction for an archvillain (I know, there was already He Who Remains, but introduction to the movies).

Anyway, he was defeated by the Ant Man Family, not just one guy. Not to take away Scott's role as primary hero, but I think it was clearly true that, just on his own without the rest as backup, Scott really would have been out of his league facing even just this one, weakened Kang. Any of them would have lost versus him, 1 on 1.

Right on! When Scott did fave him one and one, he almost got killed, lol.

I agree with everything except Mussolini being a tactical and political genius.

That was pff the top of my head. Point is, lots of conquerors lose to their own people. Take your pick.

[Doom'nGloom]

A little late but finally watched the movie and I gotta say... I'm disappointed. Liking a movie despite its flaws is one thing but I think this movie isn't competently made at all. Scott doesn't have much of a character arc throughout the whole thing, Hope is barely relevant to the plot which makes me think the Wasp in Ant-Man and the Wasp actually refers to Janet, MODOK was mostly used as a joke and I found his change of heart and death laughable, Jonathan Majors did the best he could with what he was given but the writing for Kang was one note and to top it all off Kang got defeated without the heroes suffering a major loss. People say this Kang was already nerfed by being in the quantum realm and being stripped of his time travel tech and he still did more than Thanos had done until Infinity War. Well that's all good and nice but until Infinity War Thanos was never the main villain. In GotG his screen time was less than 5 minutes and in Avengers movies he was merely in a post credits scene. This was meant to be the movie which sells Kang as the big bad of this saga to the audiences. All the marketing pointed towards it but the movie failed to do it at least for me. And I think the mid credits scene further hurts the character of Kang. It makes it seem like the actual threat of Nathaniel Richards is the fact that there are so many of them rather than any individual version of the character. I fear the chance that Kang will appear in many upcoming projects and will be either killed off or used as a joke until Kang Dynasty.

[Derek Metaltron]

Second weekend drop was nearly 70%, yikes. Makes me wonder if they can try and get rid of all the Rick and Morty writers after all…

[Stick Figure]

I went to a 12:30 showing today so I expected a small crowd. It was about 12 people.

I thought the movie was fine. It follows the familiar formula though. That’s the problem with cranking out so many of these. The all feel similar. The Eternals actually felt fresher to me.

[mogwen]

I saw it on monday, so I gave myself a little time to think about the movie.
The idea of a "weird science family" in the MCU is cool (even if the FF are supposed to fill that place). But the movie is weghed down by its plot which is rather standard and some situations have just been beaten to death, the horrible "you will obey me because I hold your daughter hostage" part is pityful!
The movie is familial entertainment, and I think it does the job, even if in a lazy way.
My real highlight of the movie was Janet and her story arc, she's the real Wasp of the movie (the other one being barely there). That's what is good with good actors, there are things that happen when they play, that's the case with Pfeiffer.

[AnakinFlair]

I remember hearing that Kate Bishop was supposed to show up in this movie, maybe during a post-credits scene. That makes me wonder, if the original ending really was Scott and Hope got left in the Quantum Realm, that Kate would show up to recruit Cassie to a new Avengers roster.

[Scott Taylor]

I remember hearing that Kate Bishop was supposed to show up in this movie, maybe during a post-credits scene. That makes me wonder, if the original ending really was Scott and Hope got left in the Quantum Realm, that Kate would show up to recruit Cassie to a new Avengers roster.

Wonder why they might have begged off including her. Its too late now to stop embracing the legacy heroes.

[90'sCartoonMan]

I get that Jan was traumatized and didn't want to relive all the Quantum Realm stuff, but it's kind of messed up she was perfectly fine with sending Scott there to explore at the end of Ant-Man and the Wasp. At least all this backstory shuts up the people who kept complaining Jan should be dead since she didn't have food or water.

Hope may not have had a ton to do (are she and Scott married? Why is Cassie calling Hank "Grandpa"?), but in an odd way, this movie completes Cassie's arc from the first Ant-Man movie. Fearing Yellowjacket and then in the second one wanting to be like Hope or a partner to Scott. Her confrontation with MODOK should have been a bigger moment for her, he became too much of a joke.

Speaking of jokes, I enjoyed the movie a lot, but I had similar problems to this as I did Thor Ragnarok. A lot of past supporting characters were ignored for new ones, and many jokes felt out of place. I loved Kang, though. This might be my favorite page-to-screen comic book costume ever. Looking forward to what Loki reveals about him. Make Rama Tut the villain of the Fantastic Four movie.

Scott Lang has really felt like the unsung hero of the MCU, and I think this movie really gives him and his contributions his due.

It's funny, I understood why they didn't include Ant-Man and Wasp in the original Avengers line-up even though I did miss them. Between Endgame and this movie? I feel like Ant-Man can be a bigger draw to the next couple Avengers movies than the likes of even Thor or Hulk (assuming they'll be in the new movies, I have no idea what's coming).

I remember hearing that Kate Bishop was supposed to show up in this movie, maybe during a post-credits scene. That makes me wonder, if the original ending really was Scott and Hope got left in the Quantum Realm, that Kate would show up to recruit Cassie to a new Avengers roster.

It sure felt like it was going in that direction and would have given Cassie more of a motivation to be a costumed hero (that fact that she has a costume in the first place was already a little suspect). But I'm glad we didn't have anyone stuck in the Quantum Realm AGAIN.

[Iron Maiden]

I went to the movie yesterday and the audience was pretty small. As noted earlier, there was a sharp drop in the box office. So far the world wide box office is at $363 million with $167 million of that being in the U.S. This past weekend's take was $32 million. For a big budget film that's not looking so good. But then maybe the problem is that Marvel feels like they have to go crazy with all the special effects and spend a lot of money there. Kang as a villain really didn't impresss me that much as a villain but IMO few of them make the translation to the screen very well. The Red Skull was one of the best but that was way back in Captain America: The First Avenger. And of course Loki. But in his case, they use him in a far different manner that the term villain doesn't apply. Ultron had some good elements but I really thought using James Spader as the voice actor wasn't the best choice.
I'm looking forward to seeing more of Rama-Tut Kang, Immortus or the Scarlet Centurion. I had to look up Victor Timely because I wasn't familiar with him. And I wonder if they will use the relationship of Kang to Nathaniel Richards, Reed's father at some point.

I think there is some hope in the possibiliy that the Russo brothers, who handled a lot of the early Marvel films may be coming back for Secret Wars but that's a few years out. Eventually Doctor Doom will be showing up at some point and that would be a good vehicle. Most reports are that IF he is part of the Fantastic Four movie that is already in the development phase he may at best only be in an end credits scene. Maybe Doom will hand Kang his lunch in Secret Wars as he does in the comics

[AnakinFlair]

I went to the movie yesterday and the audience was pretty small. As noted earlier, there was a sharp drop in the box office. So far the world wide box office is at $363 million with $167 million of that being in the U.S. This past weekend's take was $32 million. For a big budget film that's not looking so good. But then maybe the problem is that Marvel feels like they have to go crazy with all the special effects and spend a lot of money there. Kang as a villain really didn't impresss me that much as a villain but IMO few of them make the translation to the screen very well. The Red Skull was one of the best but that was way back in Captain America: The First Avenger. And of course Loki. But in his case, they use him in a far different manner that the term villain doesn't apply. Ultron had some good elements but I really thought using James Spader as the voice actor wasn't the best choice.
I'm looking forward to seeing more of Rama-Tut Kang, Immortus or the Scarlet Centurion. I had to look up Victor Timely because I wasn't familiar with him. And I wonder if they will use the relationship of Kang to Nathaniel Richards, Reed's father at some point.

I think there is some hope in the possibiliy that the Russo brothers, who handled a lot of the early Marvel films may be coming back for Secret Wars but that's a few years out. Eventually Doctor Doom will be showing up at some point and that would be a good vehicle. Most reports are that IF he is part of the Fantastic Four movie that is already in the development phase he may at best only be in an end credits scene. Maybe Doom will hand Kang his lunch in Secret Wars as he does in the comics

I hope Doom is only seen in a post-credits scene in the first Fantastic 4 movie. I don't need his origin tied to the F4 again, they did that twice. Tease him at first, then in Secret Wars or the second F4 movie, have him come in fully-formed, be a bad-ass, take the heroes to school, and when the heroes rally, have him return to Latveria, where he can point out he's the head of state, and they can't do a damn thing.

[Iron Maiden]

I hope Doom is only seen in a post-credits scene in the first Fantastic 4 movie. I don't need his origin tied to the F4 again, they did that twice. Tease him at first, then in Secret Wars or the second F4 movie, have him come in fully-formed, be a bad-ass, take the heroes to school, and when the heroes rally, have him return to Latveria, where he can point out he's the head of state, and they can't do a damn thing.

Works for me They've been pretty quiet on the casting front. It's possible they've already cut a deal with someone but it's a closely guarded secret. I really hope they stick as close possible to the comic book look of Doom with full armor plus mask. Many actors would pass on that kind of role. Most of Kang's look was spot on in the movie except the actor isn't fully masked as Kang. I guess one can expect that in films. Star Wars got around that by using James Earl Jones as the voice actor for Darth Vader and David Prowse wearing the suit.

[AnakinFlair]

Works for me They've been pretty quiet on the casting front. It's possible they've already cut a deal with someone but it's a closely guarded secret. I really hope they stick as close possible to the comic book look of Doom with full armor plus mask. Many actors would pass on that kind of role. Most of Kang's look was spot on in the movie except the actor isn't fully masked as Kang. I guess one can expect that in films. Star Wars got around that by using James Earl Jones as the voice actor for Darth Vader and David Prowse wearing the suit.

Well, here's a question. Say they go with just a guy in the suit, but they cast the voice for Dr. Doom. Who would be the best voice for Doom?

[Iron Maiden]

Well, here's a question. Say they go with just a guy in the suit, but they cast the voice for Dr. Doom. Who would be the best voice for Doom?

The only ones I can think of are maybe too old (Jeremy Irons) or dead (Alan Rickman). Most of the characters in the MCU have been Americanized except when Hugo Weaving did the Red Skull. I hope they don't Amercianize Doom and keep his origins in Eastern Europe.

[Scott Taylor]

I hope Doom is only seen in a post-credits scene in the first Fantastic 4 movie. I don't need his origin tied to the F4 again, they did that twice. Tease him at first, then in Secret Wars or the second F4 movie, have him come in fully-formed, be a bad-ass, take the heroes to school, and when the heroes rally, have him return to Latveria, where he can point out he's the head of state, and they can't do a damn thing.

I'd be good with that. With Doom, what I don't want is for him to be the next big bad that has to be defeated. Because they always kill the bad guys in these movies. I want Doom to be a constant major threat moving forward like he is in the comics. I want a Doom worthy of Doom. He is basically like a Lex Luthor type, always around, gets "defeated" from time to time but he's always a threat in the background. Occasionally a hero, when it serves him. Like Magneto, Mystique, etc. were in the Fox X-Men films.

[Shimbo]

I thoroughly enjoyed it, more than I did the previous two.

Biggest theme was family, obviously, but it was curious to see how the narrative shaped it around what it means to be a hero, with both Lang and van Dyne faced with ultimatums by Kang that essentially pit the hero's responsibility to the collective good against their desire to protect and be with their families. Cassie's call to herodom scares her father who essentially stumbled into this path, and it scares him because he knows how dangerous it is. At first, he's willing to ignore injustice if it means protecting his daughter, but she inspires Scott to commit to the superheroic ideal in a way that I do not believe he was before, even after saving the universe haha. He has literally never been portrayed so heroic, so selfless, as in this film, and it is BECAUSE of his family that he is able to become a better hero. Like, how wholesome!

Michele Pfeifer is a revelation. Her micro facial expressions, her eyes, and the way she is able to convey the tragedy of her life and her deep guilt. And it's not just that she helped Kang initially, but she "abandoned" her adopted world to deal with a monster she helped empower. That's heavy shit. In the context of the countless deaths she probably feels responsible for, I can see her holding this info back as a trauma response. Seriously, Janet was the standout next to Kang, and their chemistry was great! It felt like Kang - the ego maniac whose hubris and grandiose obsession with his cause means only he (across the multiverse) can save the multiverse from the coming incursions, deaths and destruction of those irrelevant people be damned - respected Janet. That change in Majors body language after Janet "touches his mind" is chilling - he recognizes he has to do something he would prefer not to (kill Janet), and offers her a choice: save yourself and let me be free to do what I do, or else. Simultaneously . And Janet picks the path of the hero. She instantly recognizes her responsibility in the matter and the potential scope of the threat and - despite her longing for her family - chooses to trap this monster in her personal prison in with her. Janet's character is so rich here, and Pfeifer astounds in fleshing out a character who the MCU has - arguably - done dirty.

She's a freaking survivor, a prodigious scientist (imagine how he understanding of physics and science must have been revolutionized not only in this Microverse but she helped the man from centuries in the future with his tech), brutal fighter, and just all around hyper competent despite being taken from everything and everyone she ever knew, and fighting the good fight despite the futility of her situation (during her initial stint). In contrast, da fuq does Hope do in this film??? I stayed wanting to rip that costume off Hope and put it on its true owner: Janet mf'ing van Dyne, chyall!

Also, idc what yall say, the camp and the ironic satisfaction of this future man with all his knowledge and tech brought down by literal mf'ing ants was amazing. This is comic books. That shot of Hank standing tall and proud with the swarm of marching forward was great. The man from on high brought down by these small "insects" - David vs Goliath - idk, it works for me. This Kang really loses because of his hubris, he never fathoms that he these people can truly pose a threat until they do - and it infuriates him because it shatters his view that the only substantial threat to him and his mission are other versions of him. Majors has always been a favorite of mine, but his work here is also superlative and it'll be fun to compare and analyze how he actualizes all his various Variants. This flavor of Kang was so different from the LOKI one, but he's clearly enjoying the shit out of experience and bringing it his all.

I'm not saying this film was ground breaking, but it was a solidly entertaining film with two stand out actors and characters, with spectacle and plenty of heart. The Ant Family (including them technocratic Ants - ofc a species with a hivemind would be socialist haha) is full of weird scientists and big egos with big character flaws, but they're fun and play well off each other. Solid B, but with specific accolades to Pfeifer and Majors.