The strong history of sexism in the industry.

[WonderLight789]

So, we are going to ignore a clear measure of strength to attempt to create a set of feats that proves an assertion that seems to be on shaky ground?

Seriously?

If she is stronger. How come we never see it in actual strength feats in combat?

[numberthirty]

If she is stronger. How come we never see it in actual strength feats in combat?

Wait, seriously?

[ed2962]

Anyway, here's something I thought actually was a little sexist not in intent, but probably in result.



Now the cover is not really explicit and I'd have no problem with the image in a different content. And Carol was in the military so in theory it makes a certain amount of sense. But...why is she done up like a Maxim model? It makes me think Greg Horn got the assignment to draw Carol Danvers as a soldier and for a reference he just googled "hot girls of the military" or something. And the editor approved it so, he must have thought, "Eh, one blonde is as good as another...auidence is just dumb young guys."

It's especially ironic considering a few issues later, we got an actual flashback to Carol's Air Force days and David Yardin did this cover.



Carol is still attractive here, but looks like a professional as opposed to a centerfold.

[Alan2099]

[WonderLight789]

He said later in injustice that he was holding back. Proven by the fact she was helpless against hercules. While shazam beat him. And superman killed both hercules and shazam when he stopped holding back.

Good example the other one. Too bad there are far more examples against her proving the sexism is real. For The man who has everything, dceased, wagner's trinity, Jeph's superman and batman, sacrifice arc where he one shotted her. The Witch is back. Where she says 3 hits from him will kill her. League Of One where she says she can't beat superman. Byrne run where she is constantly talking about how she is weaker than superman. JL movie, both versions etc. The list is never ending.

And still, no opinion on Carol and the other female characters mentioned?

[WonderLight789]

Wait, seriously?

Where was she ever shown stronger than hulk? Does she have better lifting strength feats. Did she ever overpower him?

[Alan2099]

He's bleeding from the eyes, she broke his arm, and "he only lost because he was holding back." Yeah. Sure. Tell me another story.

[numberthirty]

Where was she ever shown stronger than hulk? Does she have better lifting strength feats. Did she ever overpower him?

Hulk/Abomination ballpark each other.

Since a punch is absolutely a "Combat..." feat?

Then, yes.

She absolutely has "Combat..." feats that show her to be stronger than the Hulk/Abomination.

[WonderLight789]

He's bleeding from the eyes, she broke his arm, and "he only lost because he was holding back." Yeah. Sure. Tell me another story.

He literally said in the comic that he held back.

[WonderLight789]

Hulk/Abomination ballpark each other.

Since a punch is absolutely a "Combat..." feat?

Then, yes.

She absolutely has "Combat..." feats that show her to be stronger than the Hulk/Abomination.

What feats? Did she ever show the power to destroy a planet like Hulk has?

[numberthirty]

What feats? Did she ever show the power to destroy a planet like Hulk has?

Politely?

Here's the issue...

If I say "She-Hulk/Abomination..." and then say "Punch..." and someone still wants to know "What Feats?..."?

It kinda feels like someone wants to decide that there are no existing feats without actually having read much of the character in question.

[CSTowle]

I'd say the whole "feats" obsession and the "Death Battle"/rumble thing is just a symptom of some fan's need for power fantasy satisfaction. I get it, at some point that's probably why comics appealed to all or most of us (even if we mostly grew out of it in our teen years). But power levels do not make for good characters.

She Hulk herself has had runs from Byrne and Slott that were better than 80% of the Incredible Hulk's book because she isn't now and has never been defined by her level of physical strength next to her cousin. She has control, and snark, and confidence, and did the fourth wall thing before Deadpool was a gleam in Liefeld's eye.

The Sentry has power nearly on a Superman level, yet I'd much rather read a solo title about around 80-90% of former or current Avengers members (and I'm talking guys like Gilgamesh, D-Man, Rage, etc.). Power levels are great if that power fantasy thing is still what brings you to comics, or Disney IP products on the screen. It has nothing to do with the depth/realness/entertainment value of a character beyond "who punches hardest?"

Every year it seems like they put out a new character that's "smarter than Reed Richards and Tony Stark combined" or "stronger than the Hulk or Superman" or generally just better than the established best-at-a-thing heroes we all know and love. But nobody cares about these characters and they'll never be those icons because "feats"/power levels are not enough to jump-start a basic character if they have nothing else going on for them.

I stopped buying monthly comics a couple of years back, but when I'd pulled the plug my favorite one was about a group of human beings in the (relatively) real world who sat around a table and rolled dice while getting into arguments with each other. The characters there were mostly jokey, but were far more real and interesting (again, to me, if it needs to be said about a clearly subjective opinion statement) than any Wonder Woman run I've ever read.

[Zauriel]

comment retracted. Bye.

[WonderLight789]

If you think sexism in the comics was bad, wait till you see manga and anime, especially hentai. What they did to the women in American comic books was nothing compared to how women were treated in manga and anime. Strong female anime/manga characters being overpowered by lusty tentacles.

True. But hentai is literally porn. While mainstream comics filled their mouth talking about equality and all that. While having a trackrrecord of treating female characters as less than male characters.

[WonderLight789]

I'd say the whole "feats" obsession and the "Death Battle"/rumble thing is just a symptom of some fan's need for power fantasy satisfaction. I get it, at some point that's probably why comics appealed to all or most of us (even if we mostly grew out of it in our teen years). But power levels do not make for good characters.

She Hulk herself has had runs from Byrne and Slott that were better than 80% of the Incredible Hulk's book because she isn't now and has never been defined by her level of physical strength next to her cousin. She has control, and snark, and confidence, and did the fourth wall thing before Deadpool was a gleam in Liefeld's eye.

The Sentry has power nearly on a Superman level, yet I'd much rather read a solo title about around 80-90% of former or current Avengers members (and I'm talking guys like Gilgamesh, D-Man, Rage, etc.). Power levels are great if that power fantasy thing is still what brings you to comics, or Disney IP products on the screen. It has nothing to do with the depth/realness/entertainment value of a character beyond "who punches hardest?"

Every year it seems like they put out a new character that's "smarter than Reed Richards and Tony Stark combined" or "stronger than the Hulk or Superman" or generally just better than the established best-at-a-thing heroes we all know and love. But nobody cares about these characters and they'll never be those icons because "feats"/power levels are not enough to jump-start a basic character if they have nothing else going on for them.

I stopped buying monthly comics a couple of years back, but when I'd pulled the plug my favorite one was about a group of human beings in the (relatively) real world who sat around a table and rolled dice while getting into arguments with each other. The characters there were mostly jokey, but were far more real and interesting (again, to me, if it needs to be said about a clearly subjective opinion statement) than any Wonder Woman run I've ever read.

Let's not try to hide sexist treatment behind the ''interesting'' ''relatable'' excuse because it won't work. Don't give the oh she is weaker but more interesting excuse. Beacause one thing doesn't have to negate the other. There is a pattern in comics. To constantly portray female characters as less competent, less intelligent, less powerful than men. And you can't convince me that this is needed so female xharacters can be ''interesting''