Judging Frieren's Power

[Sharpandpointies]

Okay, so I've been reading Frieren: Beyond Journey's End. It's a nostalgic, melancholic tale, kind of low-key when it comes to a lot of things. But some of the characters show some interesting power, and it's backed up.

Frieren, the main character, is an elf that has been around for over a thousand years. She's a mage, and while she's not the most powerful one in the world, she's clearly beyond the capacity of mortal mages. So what I'm trying to figure out is 'Where does Frieren sit?' Clearly she's not at Classic Strange level - the characters in this manga don't demonstrate magical attacks capable of splitting mountains or anything of the sort. At the same time, she's ridiculously above 'street' level.

I'm not going to post scans here, unless requested, because the list of the stuff she does through the series is pretty lengthily. I'll start by posting a feat list for other characters, just to give a basis for comparison.

So let's talk about her companions, both of whom are well-beneath her in power level. We'll start with Stark, a fighter, just to establish the baseline of power for 'well-beneath Frieren'.

Stark trains by cleaving a crevasse into a cliff with his axe. After a few Edit: months, I think of him whacking at the cliff - in front of him, not from the top - he has created a wedge in the 100' tall cliff that's about 40' deep and 20' wide at the entrance.
Stark moves so quickly he does the flash-step thing, and is tough enough to withstand his body getting punctured in multiple places by swords without serious loss of ability (it doesn't slow him down at all).
Stark is tough enough to let an inhumanly strong demon hit him with an oversized two-handed axe to create an opening - it sinks in a little bit, but that's all. He finds it hilarious.
Stark, as part of his training, carries around boulders that look to weigh at least 2 tons, if not more.
Stark gets chewed on by dragons, and it really does very little to him. This is not surprising, given how his teacher, Eisen, is even more ridiculous, here, here, and here (apparently getting chewed on by dragons is a nothing for Eisen, nothing at all). Now Eisen is a dwarf, which comes with more toughness, but still.

So that's just some idea of where 'highly trained people sit'.

Next, we look at Fern. Fern is a young human woman whom Frieren has trained for many years, since she was a child. She's a mage, and quite a good one - capable of fighting with 'First Rank' mages (ie, top-end human mages).

I'll list these under attacks, defenses, movements, speed, etc. It was on an excel sheet.

Attacks:

Magical attack blows clear through a multi-ton boulder a great distance away. This spell is done when she's a kid.
Uses killing magic that pierces normal defenses and resistances
Can use soul-tracking attack magic from more than a mile away to attack like a sniper, from out of range of even enormously powerful mana detection.

Defenses:

Shields that are capable of blocking Frieren's basic spells.
Either globe shields (expensive) or shields she can use to reflexively block open/targeted areas with her enhanced speed (see below).

Movement:

Flight. Yes, she can fly.

Speed:

Fern is fast enough to easily react to attacks from demons who flash-step and fight equally against Stark; she forces them on the defensive with her raw speed.
When Fern kicks up the pace, her attacks actually come so quickly she utterly overwhelms a demon capable of flash-stepping and fighting against Stark.
Easily capable of reacting to and blocking surprise attacks (ie, fired from her blind side when she's not aware of the attacker).
Easily overwhelms powerful mages simply by casting a huge amount of spells very rapidly.

Just to note: by flash-stepping, I mean that the characters move considerable distances nigh-instantly - 20' or more, easily, blink and you miss it, they're already attacking. This speed is held up by other stuff in the manga, especially by the higher-level mages who demonstrate stuff even faster than this.

So, let's continue by looking at the power level of the Great Demons in the series, just to continue to judge the various levels of power. Demons are powerful predators of humanity; they look similar to humans, but with certain demonic features (horns, tails, whatever). However, don't expect a romantic subplot, because they're without human emotions - they're predators, and use human emotions against humans by manipulating them*. They're also quasi-immortal, so they can become exceedingly powerful mages. Some of them are powerful enough to be named Great Demons - basically boss-level types.

The Great Demon Solitär. Solitär fights against flash-stepping Stark and Fern at the same time, and casually blocks all of their attacks, even when Fern is trying to do her 'super-fast spell-casting that overwhelms demons capable of flash-stepping'. It's nothing to her to defend against it when Fern is explicitly trying to use speed.

Onward to listing Frieren's stuff!

* Edit: as an aside, this - in my opinion - is REALLY well-done and worth reading.

[Sharpandpointies]

Frieren -

Sane.jpg

Going to set this one up in a similar way - basically a list of all of her various attacks, defenses, movement powers, and raw speed, with an idea of their capabilities, ending with a review of her tactical capacity and overall raw power.

Attacks:

Seeking spells - fired in multiples - that can avoid shields.
Killing magic that pierces normal defenses and resistances (creates enormous, apartment building sized blasts that leave gigantic craters in stony ground, smashes through shields woven by First Rank mages, and flat out erases gigantic monsters).
Spells that sever the limbs of demons.
Lightning magic - hurling many bolts of lightning simultaneously.
Hellfire magic - vast gouts of flame that cover swaths of terrain.
Despite Fern's insanely fast defense and magic sensing, when Frieren focuses completely on her she instantly penetrates Fern's defense and incapacitates her, Fern being completely incapable of reacting to or even sensing her magical attack.
They come across what Fern (a first-ranked mage) considers to be an incredibly powerful magical barrier. Frieren confrims it has stood for decades. She then shuts it down, almost instantly and effortlessly.
Again, once she deciphers an incredibly complex barrier used to seal away a mage trial that nobody has ever broken, she casually shatters it. Instantly.
Frieren mimics - mid-fight - an attack spell using hyper-focused mana (to a point she has never seen before) - it cuts through all defenses (hers and the great demon she is fighting) effortlessly when all of her previous attacks failed (previous attacks noted above as capable of blasting gigantic craters in stony ground, etc). So this is being used on her, and after enduring it a couple of times, she then responds with the exact same spell (despite never having seen it before now).
Far, far lesser mages (not even first rank) do stuff like casually cleaving through 10' thick pillars. They are nothing to Frieren, and their attacks are useless against her shields.
Uses a spell that omni-directionally obliterates scores of floating magical swords that are capable of cutting through rock and steel.

Edit: Further evidence of her attack power can be found on Page 2, where I've placed scans of her simply obliterating millions of tons of cliff-face with a single, basic attack spell. It does require a little bit of her focus, not '*snap fingers*, but still.

Defenses:

Like Fern, her basic defenses are either globe shields (expensive) or shields she can use to reflexively block open/targeted areas.
She can concentrate her mana into parts of her body to make them durable enough to resist magical wire that casually slices through armor and bodies. And do it against a 'surprise' attack.
Despite being a non-fighter type, she is easily fast and skilled enough to stand in the middle of multiple warriors and casually dodge all of their attacks.
Shields tank huge tornadoes which then transform to hellfire.
Even taken 100% by surprise by Fern, someone extremely talented at hiding her mana, she still defends against the attack. Despite Fern's power, she (a First-rank mage) simply cannot penetrate Frieren's shields.

Movement:

Flies at much higher speed than Fern.

Durability (this is interesting, because it's RAW durability):

Gets slammed by the most powerful attack spell she has seen - a few times. The spell flat-out penetrates her shield, pitching her through a forest, her unshielded body (no shields shown) breaking 2'+ thick trees, blood spraying, etc. Continues to fight as if she's doing okay.

Speed:

When serious, reacts to and casually captures someone capable of moving at such speeds that they are completely invisible to her when she's relaxed. When she's relaxed, she's perfectly capable of reacting to flash-stepping stuff.
Solitär - the Great Demon noted above as capable of casually defending against Fern's super-fast magical attacks - flash-steps next to her, hand already poised to fire spell at her head. Despite not even looking in that direction, Frieren raises her hand and fires her own, just-now-copied version of the demon's spell before Solitär can attack.
This is followed by another casual response to a flash-step attack from Solitär.
The battle between Frieren and the Great Demon Solitar picks up the pace. It is then shown to be multiple simultaneous explosions all over a forest, DBZ style.

So, to break down Frieren's speed.

Flash-stepping people << Fern << Casual Frieren << Person who can actually move at such speeds that they are literally invisible to Casual Frieren when doing stuff << Frieren in 'fight-ready' mode.

That's a lot of jumps from something that is bullet-time or greater.

Tactical ability:

Frieren can hide her vast amount of mana, preventing people from sensing it - this is automatic.
If she doesn't move at all, she can 100% hide her mana, making it completely impossible to sense.
Woken from slumber, with only five seconds to recognize her situation, the monster, and what to do, she kills it basically instantly with the proper attack for the situation despite its advanced defenses.

Finally, here's an example of her raw power and tremendous skill at using/manipulating magic. While fighting Solitär, who is explicitly pushing her to her limits (and even winning), Frieren continues - mid-fight - to analyze a spell that has flummoxed mages for centuries and finally succeeds in her analysis. She then banishes - again, mid-fight - a curse that has affected hundreds and hundreds of of square miles of area.

[Sharpandpointies]

If Frieren has a weakness, it's her addiction to learning new spells. Any new spells. Like, at all. She learns the most ridiculous spells at times, or accepts them as payment for her services (part of this is due to a lesson she learned: 'if you accept even a tiny payment for a service, it means the other person doesn't feel like they owe you anything'), or consistently gets eaten by mimics because she absolutely has to check every treasure chest the group sees (it's a running gag).

For amusement, here's a short list of the non-combat spells she learns and/or uses in the manga, including the silly ones. She has literally hundreds more.

Removes rust from bronze statues.
Turns sweet grapes sour.
Makes flowers grow.
Telekinesis capable of lifting a three masted ship out of the ocean.
Produces shaved ice.
Dispelling magic that seems to work against most other magics.
Finds lost accessories.
Get rid of mold.
Get rid of tough oil stains.
Bird-capturing magic. Also captures bird-like monsters. Range, at most, 20m.
Treasure chest analysis magic. 99% effective. She never believes it when it says the chest is a mimic ('It might be wrong!').
Sacrificial Treasury Door Lock Magic. Door won't open until the caster dies.
Helps you scratch itchy parts on your back.
Transmutes red apples into green apples.
Prevents egg shells from falling in when cracking eggs.
Allows you to speak quickly without biting your lip.
Perfectly flips pancakes.
Magic that sees through clothing, this series doesn't do any of that stuff at all, the spell is played as a gag once but the results are never shown.
Far-flying paper airplane.

In Fern's case, she at least knows one spell that Frieren does not, having learned it as a result of passing her first class mage exam (the greatest mage of the world, Serie, really dislikes Frieren and failed her based solely on that dislike).

Fern:
Makes clothing spotless.

Serie wasn't that happy when Fern asked for that spell as her prize.

[Nik Hasta]

Nice little write up you have here

[Sharpandpointies]

Thank you!

Went through the whole series, #1-103, and wrote down stuff as I encountered it. Everything isn't there - I skipped duplicate feats, stuff well-below what I have above, etc. I had wanted to read the series again, anyway!

[Sharkerbob]

Frieren Respect :3

[Sharpandpointies]

Respect, but hoping for some comparative analysis as well. ^_^

[Nik Hasta]

Macht reacts to what is noted in the writing as lightspeed magical attacks targeting the open areas in his shields, and shifts the shields to compensate, defending easily (Denken thinks 'crap, that was lightspeed attack magic, how's he doing this?').
Macht then dodges further attacks that have been noted as lightspeed.
Macht surrounds himself with a vast, swirling cloud of gold blades that defends and attacks at the same time, easily shattering an archmage's shields. The archmage notes that this 'far surpasses the realm of offensive magic', and is 'the apex of magic no man could hope to achieve'.

I didn't remember this bit happening and I just reread Macht vs Denken and couldn't find a direct reference to lightspeed.

Could you give a chapter citation for this?

[Sharpandpointies]

I'll need to check the actual chapters, then. It's possible Denken uses that attack earlier in the manga and references lightspeed.

Edit: Okay, it's a spell he uses in Chapter 100. My mistake - there's no reference to lightspeed in that panel, it's from Macht's point of view. But it is definitely the same spell he uses earlier in the manga when he discusses using Lightspeed attacks. The page in Chapter 100 is the first page with Macht and Denken, and you'll note the offensive spell has a very specific look to it.

I'll try to find the earlier one.

[Sharpandpointies]

Okay, the spell is named Catastravia - Lights of Judgement. First seen in Chapter 44 when Denken fights Frieren. Odd. No mention of lightspeed there, either. This is irritating; I clearly recall that being noted at some point.

I'll just...search the rest of the manga.

*does so*

Dammit. I can't find any reference to something I clearly remember. Either my brain is turning to cheese (possible) or the translations have been updated and fixed. Maybe it was a mistake, maybe it was MY mistake, but I'm going to need to pull the lightspeed references until I can find something. Am disappoint. This downgrades Frieren's reaction speed to 'only' a bunch of steps above people who can teleport-style attack.

[Nik Hasta]

Okay, the spell is named Catastravia - Lights of Judgement. First seen in Chapter 44 when Denken fights Frieren. Odd. No mention of lightspeed there, either. This is irritating; I clearly recall that being noted at some point.

I'll just...search the rest of the manga.

*does so*

Dammit. I can't find any reference to something I clearly remember. Either my brain is turning to cheese (possible) or the translations have been updated and fixed. Maybe it was a mistake, maybe it was MY mistake, but I'm going to need to pull the lightspeed references until I can find something. Am disappoint. This downgrades Frieren's reaction speed to 'only' a bunch of steps above people who can teleport-style attack.

I did pretty much the same thing.

Went to bird hunting tournament when Denken is introduced, saw Catastravia be shot at Frieren and Denken is all like "She had time to react to these arrows of light?!" and then she beats him.

So I was like "Well, maybe it was in the mirror labyrinth arc a few chapters later...? Oh man, that arc was complicated that's going to take a hot minute to go through,"

And then I saw your post.

Frieren is still pretty darn quick though.

[Sharpandpointies]

I mean...arrgh, I CLEARLY recall the word 'lightspeed' being used at some point and thinking 'that's a weird word to be using in a fantasy manga'. It stuck in my head.

But...whatever, if I cannot find it, I cannot find it. Maybe 'Arrows of light' somehow got translated to 'Lightspeed attacks' when I first read it, then the translator got informed that they'd made an error and went back and fixed it? Or maybe I'm just misremembering, obviously possible. I don't know.

Yes, still ridiculously fast. *Flash step* attacks <<< Person who can actually invisibly move around Frieren when she's relaxed thanks to raw speed <<< Frieren casually catching that person when she's in fighting mode. There are other comparisons I could make, but at the least that one puts Frieren into the blatant superspeed territory in terms of her reactions and attacks.

[Sharpandpointies]

Dammitall, the translations DID change.

I took a look through my scant files I have downloaded from Frieren, and found this.

Lightspeed 2.jpg

The current translation in the manga site I use is "Impossible...a counterattack? There was no opening in my barrage of arrows of light." (also, all of the sound effects and such have been 'translated' to English, there's no Japanese script anywhere on the page).

Okay, frankly I think I'll just leave it as is and not go with the lightspeed. Clearly there's a difference in translation, here, and I feel it's likely that the less-fast idea is more accurate. Certainly it's a huge jump from 'where Frieren does all of her other stuff' to 'lightspeed'.

[Sharpandpointies]

Maaan, now I want to get the raws.

Edit: Found it.

Now I just need to translate.

[Nik Hasta]

Maaan, now I want to get the raws.

Edit: Found it.

Now I just need to translate.

If you wing it my way, I could have my sister take look at it. She speaks and reads Japanese pretty well.