Wonder Woman Allies and the way forward

[Perseus]

Why? Just put them in a separate book.

If Superman can have Kara, Kenan, John Henry, Natasha, Conner and Jon

and Batman can have Dick, Damian, Stephanie, Barbara, Cassandra, Helena, Helena, Duke, Tim, Jason, Jace, Luke and Selena

then Wonder Woman can have Donna, Artemis, Cassie, Yara, Nubia, Peng, Siggy and Grace, that's only fair.

I say the same thing for the others, ESPECIALLY the Batfam. I really can't stand having 7 characters in a room, each having main character syndrome, it's annoying in the bat books, I don't want it here. I really don't care about what the other have, at least not this time. I don't want Diana to feel derivative of the other heroes in every sense. That includes filling books with too many people and blanketing as family. As Vordan points out, not many of Diana's supports can hold a book solo or as a team. But, more than that for me is that it really is too many people, too many big personalities (if they have one), and we have no real tension or conflict between them? I down for suspending disbelief but really?

[Koriand'r]

I say the same thing for the others, ESPECIALLY the Batfam. I really can't stand having 7 characters in a room, each having main character syndrome, it's annoying in the bat books, I don't want it here. I really don't care about what the other have, at least not this time. I don't want Diana to feel derivative of the other heroes in every sense. That includes filling books with too many people and blanketing as family. As Vordan points out, not many of Diana's supports can hold a book solo or as a team. But, more than that for me is that it really is too many people, too many big personalities (if they have one), and we have no real tension or conflict between them? I down for suspending disbelief but really?

Since apparently you're new here...Welcome to D.C.! At D.C. it's all about sidekicks and legacies and has been for at least 60 years. That's part of the charm.

[Perseus]

Since apparently you're new here...Welcome to D.C.! At D.C. it's all about sidekicks and legacies and has been for at least 60 years. That's part of the charm.

So many sidekicks, so few legacies... you'd think they'd be fighting each other more than villains lol. Yeah, and as usually someone comes with a different idea, challenging an industry status quo, and its immediately pushed back.

[WonderScott]

I don't know how people sit here and ask for big ass families like... it's too much. If I was writing, I'd be killing people off at some point.

I don’t see it as too much. I like playing with similarities and differences between the characters and all the nuances. I also like mixing all the characters up and discovering different parts of their characters from combining them in different ways.

[WonderScott]

I say the same thing for the others, ESPECIALLY the Batfam. I really can't stand having 7 characters in a room, each having main character syndrome, it's annoying in the bat books, I don't want it here. I really don't care about what the other have, at least not this time. I don't want Diana to feel derivative of the other heroes in every sense. That includes filling books with too many people and blanketing as family. As Vordan points out, not many of Diana's supports can hold a book solo or as a team. But, more than that for me is that it really is too many people, too many big personalities (if they have one), and we have no real tension or conflict between them? I down for suspending disbelief but really?

Interesting… I enjoy it when the Batfamily gets together.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[Perseus]

I don’t see it as too much. I like playing with similarities and differences between the characters and all the nuances. I also like mixing all the characters up and discovering different parts of their characters from combining them in different ways.

Interesting… I enjoy it when the Batfamily gets together.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

I don't mind stories that explore character ideologies and how it separates and brings them together, when it's done well. But there that prevalence in western comics media that doesn't really allow characters to really grow. You'll have the arch, you'll have the stories of teamwork after that, and them someone will come in or a crisis will occur, and it goes right back to square one. Its stale now. I think legacy characters work for some, but not all. Diana is one of ones that it doesn't work. To me, Diana really isn't 'wonder woman' at least she probably wouldn't actively call herself that, it would be a thing the outside world calls her, and she goes with it. To her, she's just Diana, like how Nubia is just Nubia, she doesn't see this traditional hero thing. It's like a foreign concept to her, at least because she comes from a culture that had very complex characters in their mythology/religion, and she knows it. Also, Diana is immortal, its just harder to do with god-like beings like her or say Thor.

So, to me, it makes sense for Diana to have all of these people around her, but to really defy and differentiate herself from the traditional western comic tropes, is to acknowledge that sometimes people die, and they stay dead. This is a dangerous world with dangerous people and angry vindictive gods it's not always going to sunshine and happiness. It elevates the story; it gets people excited, your heart starts racing, you want to keep reading because you love these characters and you care for their struggles, but the world becomes more real and human, because there are serious consequences to character actions. Not everyone walks away into the sunset. But, also like I said in my last post, big personalities, big powerful people, and not really any tension or conflict, like its stale, to me.

That's my incoherent rant lol, I'm sure I'd get my point across better some other time.

I read books like ASOIAF, the game of thrones books and watch House of the Dragon, if that points you to the type of material/characters I love.

[thefinalguy]

Can they support separate books is the question. Most of the Batfamily can’t outside of Nightwing, Red Hood, Robin, and Batgirl, neither can the Superfamily (sucks to say). Nubia’s sales were not great and while Yara started off strong, the problems behind the scenes ultimately tanked her too. Donna and Cassie can’t support solo books.

Four Batfamily members is still a lot on top of Batman and Detective Comics.

Sensation Comics could also be a good place to push these characters outside of books.

Donna and Cassie not having solos is just the way it's always been; that's on DC for never making that push. I'm sure Donna could've handled one in the 90s; if she couldn't now, that's indicative of bad handling. What were the sales on Cassie's mini? Serious question.

There's a space for Nubia and Yara, consistency is key, and you can't push someone if you don't go for it. Nubia at least had a solid year of exposure, now they need to keep pushing her and evaluate when a solo makes sense.

These characters need to be exposed outside of the comic realm, too; that's what Diana's supporting cast lacks.

[Mel Dyer]

Steve, Etta and Siggy seem like a good combination.

My overall approach to thinking about Diana’s “family” is more in line with the Batfamily though. I want room for Donna, Cassie, Ferdinand, Achilles Warkiller, Atlantiades, Yara Flor, Nubia, Hippolyta, Philippus, Io, Artemis, a new Wonder Boy and others to show up when the call is put out.

In my Wonder Woman Series Bible Thingee, I’m working hard to integrate a lot of her supporting cast that should part of her stories as needed. Characters like: Myndi and Kevin Mayer, some other Amazons, ARGUS teammates, Trevor Barnes, Julia Kapatelis, Helena Sandsmark, the Embassy staff, Ed Indelicato, etc.

There’s no reason Diana can’t have an immersive and interconnected group of co-stars and supporting characters for her stories.

I got some of those cats, you're talking about, in this family snapshot, on Wondabunga.

[HestiasHearth]

I got some of those cats, you're talking about, in this family snapshot, on Wondabunga.

From left to right, who are the first three characters? And who is the lady with a cape riding the Kanga?

[Perseus]

I got some of those cats, you're talking about, in this family snapshot, on Wondabunga.

See, I look at something like this and I just roll my eyes.

[WonderScott]

I don't mind stories that explore character ideologies and how it separates and brings them together, when it's done well. But there that prevalence in western comics media that doesn't really allow characters to really grow. You'll have the arch, you'll have the stories of teamwork after that, and them someone will come in or a crisis will occur, and it goes right back to square one. Its stale now. I think legacy characters work for some, but not all. Diana is one of ones that it doesn't work. To me, Diana really isn't 'wonder woman' at least she probably wouldn't actively call herself that, it would be a thing the outside world calls her, and she goes with it. To her, she's just Diana, like how Nubia is just Nubia, she doesn't see this traditional hero thing. It's like a foreign concept to her, at least because she comes from a culture that had very complex characters in their mythology/religion, and she knows it. Also, Diana is immortal, its just harder to do with god-like beings like her or say Thor.

So, to me, it makes sense for Diana to have all of these people around her, but to really defy and differentiate herself from the traditional western comic tropes, is to acknowledge that sometimes people die, and they stay dead. This is a dangerous world with dangerous people and angry vindictive gods it's not always going to sunshine and happiness. It elevates the story; it gets people excited, your heart starts racing, you want to keep reading because you love these characters and you care for their struggles, but the world becomes more real and human, because there are serious consequences to character actions. Not everyone walks away into the sunset. But, also like I said in my last post, big personalities, big powerful people, and not really any tension or conflict, like its stale, to me.

That's my incoherent rant lol, I'm sure I'd get my point across better some other time.

I read books like ASOIAF, the game of thrones books and watch House of the Dragon, if that points you to the type of material/characters I love.

I’m a reader and watcher of ASOIF too, and love the drama therein. Developing the intrigues, the fears, the passions, the heroism, the villainy, the mistakes, the choices, the fates, etc. all can happen similarly in Wonder Woman in a way that makes sense in her world. One of my favorite things about the series (books or tv) is how different characters with different motivations keep getting remixed throughout the stories.

That’s essentially what I meant about Diana having a larger family of characters… I like to see what happens and if anything changes when Helena Sandsmark encounters Ares; or Circe and Dark Angel have a little chat; or Achilles Warkiller, Steve Trevor, Siggy, Trevor Barnes, Kevin Mayer and Ferdinand have a guys night out; etc., etc.

Create a web of character interactions and relationships and see what comes out of it.

I’m also good with characters dying for dramatic and emotional purposes (if done well) and coming back sometime later in a Rebirth or after a Crisis or whatever, so more stories can be told with them and I can enjoy more drama with them. It’s fiction and comics and should be renewable, to me and my sensibilities. But that’s just me.

[WonderScott]

I got some of those cats, you're talking about, in this family snapshot, on Wondabunga.

I’ve seen you post this and I love it! (Jason being my only exception. I have the hardest time working with him as he was originally portrayed, but I think I’ve figured out what I’ll do with him.)

[WonderScott]

See, I look at something like this and I just roll my eyes.

Haha… and I get excited about what could be!

[Perseus]

I’m a reader and watcher of ASOIF too, and love the drama therein. Developing the intrigues, the fears, the passions, the heroism, the villainy, the mistakes, the choices, the fates, etc. all can happen similarly in Wonder Woman in a way that makes sense in her world. One of my favorite things about the series (books or tv) is how different characters with different motivations keep getting remixed throughout the stories.

That’s essentially what I meant about Diana having a larger family of characters… I like to see what happens and if anything changes when Helena Sandsmark encounters Ares; or Circe and Dark Angel have a little chat; or Achilles Warkiller, Steve Trevor, Siggy, Trevor Barnes, Kevin Mayer and Ferdinand have a guys night out; etc., etc.

Create a web of character interactions and relationships and see what comes out of it.

I’m also good with characters dying for dramatic and emotional purposes (if done well) and coming back sometime later in a Rebirth or after a Crisis or whatever, so more stories can be told with them and I can enjoy more drama with them. It’s fiction and comics and should be renewable, to me and my sensibilities. But that’s just me.

And I'd probably want them to stay dead. Death has no meaning if it's not permanent, if every character is going to pull a Gandolf, what does an 'emotional' death even mean? each there own.

[Phoenixx9]

I got some of those cats, you're talking about, in this family snapshot, on Wondabunga.

I like a lot of these characters and want to see them used interchangeably as needed.