THE definitive Avengers villain?

[hawkeyefan]

They're linked, but what her mutant power gives her is the inborn ability to channel chaos magic. She -- particularly at the time of that story -- also had magical skills. Skill and power are two different things.

So hit her with the nullifier, and she'd still have skills, but she wouldn't so easily tap into power sources. That doesn't mean the power sources aren't relevant -- if she does hugely magical things with huge magic, that doesn't mean she's wicked powerful and can do that stuff whenever she wants, it means she can do things with huge magic. If it's around to be used.

So now, it doesn't all come back to her powers, any more than a light bulb lighting up is all about the bulb and not about the power source.

Englehart wrote in a city of witches whipping up a megastorm of fertility magic for a reason; without that, the pregnancy wouldn't have been possible. Much as I wrote in the Twilight Sword for a similar reason.

kdb

Makes sense....thanks for taking the time to explain that!

[electr1cgoblin]

Makes sense....thanks for taking the time to explain that!

Clarification in a thread called "the definitive Avengers villain" by what the guy I would call "the definitive Avengers writer".

Awesome.

[H-E-D]

I oscillate between Kang and Ultron.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

ULTRON is definitely the greatest villain on this list, and one of the greatest in comic book history.

The MCU Ultron is to return and become the MCU Dr. Doom's bodyguard in the live action Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars!

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

I was out of reading comics for so long, that when I got to Avengers Disassembled in one of my first batches of back issues, I didn't understand
how Wanda was all of a sudden a reality warper.

To me it got pulled out of one's ass.

I read up past her being tutored by Agatha Harkness when I was a kid, and even as far as
the "Yesterday Quest" storyline where she learned her true past. Through all that time I was reading back then, Wanda usually had 2 good hexes
in her, and if she dug deep, 3. Harkness was able to help her channel her mutant power into some true witchcraft, but she even said that Wanda
would never be a great sorceress.

The first woman of marvel and member of the Mutant race to join the super hero team Avengers.

I've since read everything in between when I originally stopped reading and now, and although she's been shown at
times to have a higher power level, she was never able to do any large-scale magic. Then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, she becomes powerful
enough to first grant every hero's personal wish, and then later, utter 3 words and change the whole makeup of the world's population? Is it any wonder
that people who've read Avengers going back years and years don't like it when Wanda is referred to as a villain, when she never had the power to do
what she did, or a reason to seek the power in the first place.

To me pulled out of one's ass.

She was with the team all the way up to issue 500, still fighting bad guys. What happens
if Bendis decides Emma Frost's power comes back at Phoenix levels next issue of Uncanny X-Men, driving her crazy and killing anybody she thinks has
wronged her, and takes her out of the books for a decade? Would people think that was fair treatment? Why is okay for Wanda to be treated that way?

All of this Post, Well Said Pat Thomas!

Really, in the end you post just highlights the Fact that Bendis really just did not and still does not care, it was never about history or canon or who the Avengers where, it is what He wanted them to be and making His team with as much pain and drama to make it as dark as he could to sell shock story-lines. Sadly for a time it worked and led to Civil War and other Heroes vs. Heroes non-sense just to sell books.

Agreed.

So really, Wanda was re-conned in the lazies way I have ever seen done just cause 1 guy was Marvel's golden boy, that is really the only real reason.

Hear! Hear!

[Hypestyle]

I'd like to see kang's threat reduced, or just really get his head handed to him. because of this "he's from the future" angle, he's always got an escape route. alternate universe versions, same thing.

[Vegeta]

I'd say Kang, Ultron and Zemo's Masters of Evil are arguably the "big 3" Avengers baddies that come to mind when I think of Avengers enemies. I know the films have made Thanos the ultimate Avengers foe but I still regard him as more of Adam Warlock/ Silver Surfer "cosmic" foe. (Due to his prevalence in the Infinity War 90's titles I grew up with.)

I never really saw Zeus or Dormammu as Avengers enemies. I think Taskmaster or the Collector would have made better options in the poll.

[your_name_here]

A case could be made for The Skrulls being higher on the list. Following Secret Invasion, they really got elevated.

[Michael Watkins]

Kang the Conqueror. It used to be Ultron. But the Avengers have grown up. The team is less pym centric. But Kang organized the U young Avengers. His investment in the team as challengers spans centuries. He has a more tangible personality than Ultron imo. I’m burned out on artificial intelligence threats.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars #12 Apr 1985
"...Nothing to Fear..."
For daring to unite against the omnipotent power of Doctor Doom
the heroes on Battleworld have been annihilated for their defiance.
Seeing the smoldering wreckage of Doombase is Zsaji and her people who rush to the location
to see what befell the champions who defended them against the evil beset upon them.
From his new home at the Tower of Doom, Doctor Doom assures Klaw that he has slain the heroes
and they will not stand in his way again, that his is certain.

Meanwhile, millions of miles away, the villains who were brought to Battleworld are transporting
the city of Denver back to Earth thanks to the enhanced powers of the Molecule Man.
Curious as to what is happening on Battleworld, the Enchantress summons a water sprite from
Marsha Rosenberg's bathtub and has it reveal what has happened on Battleworld since their departure.
It reveals to her that the Beyonder has seemingly perished and Doctor Doom has stolen his power.
The Enchantress hopes for a moment of vulnerability so she can strike at Doom before he can use his power against her.
When the Lizard begins to freak out, the Enchantress uses the distraction to call out to Volcana in order to make her pay
for helping her reach the Molecule Man earlier in the Secret Wars when he was injured and she wanted to be by his side.
Taking Marsha to a nearby park, Amora intends to steal her life force in order to gain additional power.
Meanwhile, the Molecule Man fights it out with Doctor Octopus who has come to doubt his ability to get them home.
After Owen restrains Otto, the Lizard points out that Marsha is missing.
They find her in the Enchantress' clutches and attack.
When Amora tries to teleport back to Battleworld, the Lizard leaps at her and is transported there as well.
When the Lizard slashes her face, the Enchantress absorbs his life force in order to return to Asgard.

Meanwhile, Doctor Doom slumbers and while he does Klaw tries to get close to him but Doom quickly awakens.
Klaw then begins instilling doubt in Doom's mind, telling him that he may not have killed the heroes as he thought.
Doom plays into this and Klaw creates a hologram showing the healer
Zsaji using her power to revive Colossus, dying in the process.
Heartbroken, Colossus brings his fellow heroes back to Doombase
and uses the medical devices there to revive the others.
Doom denies this theory, even when Klaw suggests that he subconsciously did not want them to die.
When Doom continues to deny this, suddenly he is proven
wrong when Thor's hammer comes crashing through the wall.
Doom's power flares out of control destroying a nearby planet. With the heroes about to besiege him,
he listens to Klaw's suggestion of giving him a portion of his power to deal with the heroes.
Klaw is given a fraction of Doom's stolen power and he goes out to face the heroes.

Using this new power he creates monsters for them to fight

as well as a rebuilt Ultron.

The Thing slugs it out with one of the monsters when suddenly he starts to revert back to Ben Grimm.
Through sheer force of will he prevents his transformation, cementing
the idea in his mind that Battleworld allows him to change back and forth.
Elsewhere on the battle field, Ultron has some of the others on the ropes when suddenly he blows up.
The reason why becomes apparent when the Wasp emerges from his ruined shell,
having used her bio-stings to damage his vulnerable internal components.

As the battle rages on, Captain America gets past the monsters and Klaw to confront Doctor Doom directly.
Doom tries to atomize Captain America, but the hero suddenly re-appears every time he tries to destroy him.
This causes Doom's power to flare out of control, what Klaw -- or rather the being possessing him -- has planned all along.
When Doom is finally in a weakened state, the Beyonder emerges from Klaw's body and reclaims his stolen power,
restoring Doom back to his normal state and banishing both he and Klaw away.

With the Secret Wars now officially over, the heroes regroup back at Doombase to try and figure out a way to get back home.
There, Colossus has a funeral for Zsaji and weeps over her grave.
Later, Spider-Man finds that the X-Men have created new costumes for themselves.
When he sees the others doing so as well he finds it curious that
they are not using the same machine where he got his new uniform.
The Hulk's leg is broken and Mister Fantastic binds it in a metal brace.

As the heroes rest after their victory they are surprised when
Curt Connors -- having reverted back to human form from the Lizard -- arrives.
When this happy reunion between Connors and Spider-Man is happening,
Nightcrawler wishes that Kitty's dragon Lockheed would return.
Almost as if on cue, Lockheed does return with another small dragon in tow.
Mister Fantastic meets with the others and explains that residual energies from the Beyonder
are what is causing the strange series of "wish fulfillment" that they have experienced recently.
Hearing this, Captain America goes into a back room with his shattered shield
and is happy to see that he is able to repair it through sheer force of will.
Soon Mister Fantastic is able to cobble together a device that will allow him to teleport them all back home.
First he sends back the Hulk, Magneto, Spider-Man, Curt Connors and Spider-Woman.

Next are the X-Men after Professor X consoles Colossus over the loss of Zsaji,
convincing him to come back with them so her sacrifice is not in vein.
As Mister Fantastic prepares to teleport them away, the strange dragon that followed Lockheed flies into the teleportation beam,
causing some strange feedback, leaving the rest to wonder what will happen to them when they return to Earth.

Before the Avengers prepare to return home as well, the Thing arrives with She-Hulk, who is wearing a Fantastic Four costume.
Ben explains to Reed and Johnny that he intends to stay on Battleworld for a while to enjoy the ability to change
back and forth between human and Thing forms and has selected She-Hulk as his replacement on the team.
After the Avengers teleport off, Ben insists that he is staying. Reed thinks briefly for a moment about telling Ben
what he knows about his transformations and thinks against it, hoping he will discover the truth in time.
Before going, Reed passes Ben the teleportation device so that Ben can use it whenever he is ready to return home.
After Mister Fantastic, the Torch and She-Hulk are teleported away, Ben begins the first steps of his greatest adventure yet.

NOTE: The end of this epic story has great ramifications throughout the Marvel Universe.
Plot threads from this issue continue in Thing #11, Fantastic Four #265,
Amazing Spider-Man #252, Avengers #243 and Uncanny X-Men #181.

Story by Jim Shooter. Art by Mike Zeck and John Beatty.

[Winterfyre]

Top 3
#1-Ultron
#2-Kang
#3-Thanos

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

WANDAVISION VILLAIN REVEALED!?!

[scilover]

I think it all comes down to choice preference between us all.....for me, i would think it would be kang the conqueror. Ultron is close but I feel like Kang the conqueror poses a bigger threat than Ultron.

[Will Evans]

Kang. Looking forward to him again.

[Steroid]

Since Kang Dynasty is my favorite Avengers story I have to go with Kang.