THE definitive Avengers villain?

[stingnewell]

You are right, they do occasionally fight supernatural foes, but in the main, they don't generally have many magic based characters in their roster, so it's incongruous to see Iron Man fighting a demon (which is what Chthon is), etc.

So Scarlet Witch doesn't count?

[hawkeyefan]

But, will the Builders ever hit the Big Time? Will the Red Skull earn his spot? Did Norman Osborn or the Hood? What About Chtoon? (sp?) The Unspoken?

Peace

I think the builders worked as a threat, but it was very specific to the story. What they lacked was some personality, and any kind of recognizable members. If they were to show up again, I'd want to see some more specific members to help give them their own feel. I really liked The Garden, which was made up of Aleph, Ex Nihilo, and Abyss. Perhaps if they tried to invent new systems like the Garden, and came up with a new group to do their work.

The Hood worked in so far as I think the idea of an upstart villain creating a gang of super villains works. I think they could have been a nice smaller scale threat. Unfortunately, they didn't seem to have much of a goal in mind before deciding they had to attack the Avengers.

Norman Osborn worked in the role they gave him and for the Dark Reign story. I don't know if he can really be much of a threat without becoming the head of the US defense organization.

Cthon I'd say was pretty minimal overall.

How about High Evolutionary? I'd actually like to see him more often.

[Nomads1]

As much as I loved the Chthon storyline, I think he's a bit too supernatural to be an Avengers ultravillain.

I'm old school, so I will always think of Norman Osborn/Green Goblin as a Spidey foe. The Red Skull...maybe. I am not sure who the Builders or the Unspoken are, but I've been away from the team for a while.

Builders are supposed to be the mega threat behind the problems the Avengers and the New Avengers are facing (I'm also not following this. But I'm about to order the Infinity TPB when it comes out next week). Red Skull has been Onslaughted and is the current big bad of Uncanny Avengers (though, IMHO, Acts of Vengence and especially Red Zone already'd earned him major points). Unspoken was an Inhuman King (or regent, I'm not sure) deposed and exiled by Blak Bolt. Both him and Chthon were major threts faced by Slotts Might Avengers.

Morgan Le Fey, Can't Beleive I forgot about Her, Indeed she should have been on the poll as well!

She was in the list I made (Post #173/ Page #12)

Baron Helmut Zemo and/or the Masters of Evil
Count Nefaria
Morgan Le Fey
Grandmaster
Immortus
Kang the Conqueror
The Supreme Inteligence
Loki
Korvac
Graviton
Nebula.
The Zodiac
Thanos
Ultron
The Collector.

Peace

[CJStriker]

She was in the list I made (Post #173/ Page #12)

Peace

So, my list would be:

Baron Helmut Zemo and/or the Masters of Evil
Count Nefaria
Morgan Le Fey
Grandmaster
Immortus
Kang the Conqueror
The Supreme Inteligence
Loki
Korvac
Graviton (or Bendis)
Nebula.
The Zodiac
Thanos
Ultron
The Collector.


Peace

You have Great Taste Nomads1 my friend, I 2nd This List, Thanks for Bringing it to my attention!

[Iron Maiden]

BGecasue since the first Marvel books the MU is intened to be " the world outdie your window .. with superheroes"

I've yet to see anyone get convicted of casting a spell in the modern courts. Have you?
Do you know anyone that can warp reality? At some point, the comparison to the real world just doesn't apply.

[MichaelC]

Always thought that "world outside your window" statement was arrogant and provincial. New York is the world outside your window for ten million out of seven billion people. Even if you just count America, New York is the world outside your window for 1/30th of the population.

[CSTowle]

So Scarlet Witch doesn't count?

Of course she does, she's on the list.

[CSTowle]

And usually a pretty boring view at that, in my (admittedly limited) experience.

[Shadowcat]

lorna says she plans on holding it against wanda forever. perhaps she's only humoring scarlet witch out of fear?

She's probably keeping an eye on her to take her out if she tries something again.

[Nomads1]

Anybody remembers those ten worst enemies lists features that used to come as backstories in annuals in the 90's? Avengers WCA, FF, X-Men, and a few solo heroes all had them, and they were in order. I wonder what they would look now for each one of them?

Peace

[Vic Vega]

No mention of the Lethal Legion?

They always had at the very least a better name than the Masters of Evil.

[XPac]

How was rogue trying to Stop Wanda from Attacking the Mutant race again a mistake? The twin plans meant that the mutants would live, Wanda's plan meant the slaughter of mutants once again. Her main mistake was waiting so long to stop her

Rogue even admits she was being manipulated and did the wrong thing. Don't take my word for it... take hers.

[electr1cgoblin]

So Scarlet Witch doesn't count?

Didn't say that. She's really the only longtime member whose powers are "somewhat" magical in nature. Remember, they are (or were, God knows what else they've changed about her since I read the book) based in both science and magic. She has "probability altering" powers as well as hex powers.

[Iron Maiden]

Didn't say that. She's really the only longtime member whose powers are "somewhat" magical in nature. Remember, they are (or were, God knows what else they've changed about her since I read the book) based in both science and magic. She has "probability altering" powers as well as hex powers.

I think it was Byrne that might have changed the nature of her power into probability altering. So that instead of the odds being a million to one for a falling meteorite to hit you in the head it becomes a sure thing. I think this is where the idea comes from that in order to do that she's shifting you into another reality where the unlikely event happens.

[gurkle]

I think it was Byrne that might have changed the nature of her power into probability altering. So that instead of the odds being a million to one for a falling meteorite to hit you in the head it becomes a sure thing. I think this is where the idea comes from that in order to do that she's shifting you into another reality where the unlikely event happens.

I believe it was Roy Thomas who first defined them that way, though I think it was first proposed by some letter-writing fans as a way to define Wanda's hex power in a "scientific" way. Thomas used it and other writers ran with it. Especially in the '80s, when Marvel tried to define her powers very tightly and specify that her powers were only mutant, not magic (which never sticks because "she's a witch but her powers aren't magic" is extremely hard to make readers understand).



Byrne said he preferred the original, less scientific Stan Lee explanation that her powers simply cause bad luck, but he found a way to enjoy writing "probability" by coming up with that idea that altering probability is really a way of creating a new reality. Which eventually got taken up by Bendis, who however continued to refer to her powers as magic... it's all very confusing and the simplest thing is probably just to call it magic and forget about it.