THE definitive Avengers villain?

[Nomads1]

i think its very weird that the avengers don't have that many noteworthy villains to call their own.

Kang
Immortus
Ultron
Zodiac Cartel
Masters of Evil
Nebula
Lethal Legion
Grim Reaper
the Gatherers
Master Pandemonium
Alkhema
And I really could go on and on...

The thing is, unlike the X-Men or the FF, who are mostly known as a team, the Avengers are a collection of stars that have their own title, and the villians from those own titles end up carrying over to the group book, as has happened with Loki, the Olympian Gods, Red Skull and so many others... The same has been known to happen with DC's Justice League.

Peace

[AcesX1X]

Kang
Immortus
Ultron
Zodiac Cartel
Masters of Evil
Nebula
Lethal Legion
Grim Reaper
the Gatherers
Master Pandemonium
Alkhema
And I really could go on and on...

yes, but no offense i said "noteworthy."

half of those villains you list are very obscure. and no one outside of diehard avenger readers would really know who they are...

[Nomads1]

Englehart's my favorite writer, and the themes he touched on in that story among his other work just blew my mind.

Englehart's Avengers run is incredibly creative, and touched upon topics that are an essential part of the Avengers mythos. I just never cared much for his overdramatic dialogue, and his overall use of drama, in fact. Stern, Busiek, Harras, Johns, Shooter, even Thomas, rank higher than him in my list of personal favorites.

Peace

[Rochedalaix]

i'm curious to know if the mutants would allow scarlet to run free if they knew the truth behind planet x.

Not just the mutants if everyone knew that she cooperated with the twins she would be in trouble. Even better if what happened to Quicksilver in All New X-Factor 13 happened to the Scarlet Witch, the Avengers and her would be done.

[Nomads1]

yes, but no offense i said "noteworthy."

half of those villains you list are very obscure. and no one outside of diehard avenger readers would really know who they are...

Mostly because, in the last decade, the writers haven't bothered much to read the Avengers backstory and feature them, so they did, admitedly, fall through the cracks. However, up untill Bendis, when writers bothered to use history, they were pretty widely known, and many were really awsome (and, with the exception of, maybe, the last three, I'd say the others are pretty widely known, even for people not versed in Avengers history).

Peace

[Michael P]

I wouldn't say the Gatherers, Alkhema, Master Pandemonium, the Zodiac, or the Lethal Legion were ever "pretty widely known". And two months ago, I would have included Nebula on that list.

[AcesX1X]

Mostly because, in the last decade, the writers haven't bothered much to read the Avengers backstory and feature them, so they did, admitedly, fall through the cracks. However, up untill Bendis, when writers bothered to use history, they were pretty widely known, and many were really awsome (and, with the exception of, maybe, the last three, I'd say the others are pretty widely known, even for people not versed in Avengers history).

Peace

i think you'd be hard pressed to find a casual reader who can recognize something like lethal legion or gatherers, not to mention name you any from memory.

[Shadowcat]

Exactly, and this is all before counting her screw up in Uncanny Avengers she helped get the entire world destroyed.

&

[Nomads1]

I wouldn't say the Gatherers, Alkhema, Master Pandemonium, the Zodiac, or the Lethal Legion were ever "pretty widely known". And two months ago, I would have included Nebula on that list.

Alkhema and Gatherers stuck mostly to the Avengers titles, but Master Pandemonium showed up in FF, some of the horror books and even Young Avengers pretty recently, Zodiac Cartel and Lethal Legion have poped up all over the Mu over the years and Nebula was always a big player over at the cosmic side of Marvel, playing an important part in one of Marvel's most popular events, Infinity Gauntlet (and that was even before the movie). Are any of them Dr. Doom? No, but, then again, very few are. Non-comic readers won't know who Mr Sinister, the Marauders, Carnage, the Executioner, or so many others, however, if you read comics, even if you don't follow regularly the X-Men books, the Spidey-verse, Thor, or others, you may have heard of them. Same with most Avengers baddies.

Peace

[Darthkostis]

....Master Pandemonium showed up in FF, some of the horror books and even Young Avengers pretty recently....

He showed up during the last arc of Thomson Venom as well I think. Hellstorm tagged along IIRC.

[AcesX1X]

he also showed up in the young avenger special with wiccan and speed - squatting on vision and scarlet's old new jersey property and watching old movies. i still wouldn't consider him someone casual fans would recognize.

[pageturner]

logically scarlet is the avengers greatest villain both in-story and out-of.

she ushered in the biggest sea change for the books themselves. her attacks led to a company-wide crossover, which then drove the line of the x-books and provided the tone for avenger books for years. in-story she has the highest avenger and non-avenger kill-count of any avenger villain.

ultron has never had the sort of antagonistic influence over the avengers that wanda has, and he certainly never hurt them as much as she did. he definitely never killed as many avengers as her. kang has about two stories where he's actually had much influence over the avengers, and neither took place in an avenger book proper.

Well Ultron killed most of them until Logan went back in time and reset everything

[AcesX1X]

right but that was in some satellite book that hardly anyone read.

[Rochedalaix]

&

You forgot West Coast Avengers 48.

[Nemesis@]

I went with Immortus because has caused several changes to manipulate the avengers and also have not received a single vote.

Anyway, Zeus is not really a villain. Dormammu is not villainous Avengers and Wanda is not a villain.

I would have put Graviton, Grimm Reaper, Squadron Sinister and Super Adaptoid

But would vote for Kang or Ultron.