The Problem With Spider-Man Comics Today

[Majesty]

Joe Kelly is doing a mini arc after Dark Web.

I want to know what happened at the end of Nick Spencer's run that Marvel has completely retreated to bringing back BND writers to take control of ASM?

Because they were gonna do a "reset" again. But instead of going OMD they instead went with "Peter does some horrible thing" McGuffin with "and now everyone hates him. Find out why in 100 issues! But here's a hint... it has something to do with responsibility!"

[Darthfury78]

[Huntsman Spider]

IMO, they have two options… let Spidey finally age like he was doing until the 1990s and achieve new milestones, like being married again, having a baby and *shock* maybe even enter his 30s… this will open up new avenues for fresh storylines…. or reboot the whole Spidey line and start over fresh (kind of like Ultimate, but for 616). This zombie Simpsons approach of just recycling a bunch of stock storylines that give the illusion of change but never actually change anything makes the comics depressingly meaningless. Like I’m watching someone stuck in a never ending cartoon. Which I think Spencer joked about at one point.

He wasn't joking. ASM 60 by Nick Spencer had Peter talking out his feelings about what had recently transpired with the "revelation" of who Kindred really was with help from Mary Jane, and he admitted exactly that, that he (felt like he) was stuck in a never-ending cycle of misery and loss with no forward momentum in his life.

I think I half-agree with you here.

Spidey's kind of special among big 2 superheroes in that Peter has had a strong development vector from the get-go (high-schooler->college student->dropout->married man->soon-to-be-dad). Spider-Dad was the next logical step, but Marvel, naturally, wanted their best-seller to stay evergreen so they methodically brought him back to a pre-1987 unmarried man. And that in itself was pretty hard--MJ's not a Batman's girlfriend of the hour who you can quietly shuffle off, she's a reader favorite in her own right.

Current Spidey now feels much like many other marvel protags--Tony Stark or Steve Rogers. They date and flirt, but the personal drama is a bit weightless cause it doesn't really stick long term. They are evergreen, ever-young. And barring narrative interruptions (Old Man Steve, AI Tony) they're staying that way.

Now the narrative vector is pointing to the next milestone, that being "Spidey and MJ get back together." That's the North star, and in teasing it out they're keeping us long-term fans interested. It can be very frustrating, especially since we've had them married for a while, so "Back together" doesn't feel like a major goal. But it's the best one we got so far.

And you best believe that if Marvel wanted the marriage back, it would happen in like 6 issues lmao. Look how quickly DC got Pre-Crisis Superman back and married with a kid.

Technically, it was pre-Flashpoint/New 52 Superman, though for something that started off as a side story in 2015's Convergence event, it sure did strike a chord with readers and fans. That said, your point definitely bears out.

The problem is that Peter isn't allowed to do anything new or stuff that's happened in Alt Universes that isn't brought into the 616.

SHAKE THINGS UP!! Have him grow to the age of 35 and act like it. Make Peter/MJ/Felicia a committed relationship. Have Mayday be born. Have her learn and grow from her own mistakes and be the representative of what young Peter was instead of always resetting Peter to young Peter despite being in his 30s.

Essentially the biggest problem in Spider-Man comics is they repeat formulas till those formulas get bland, and then they do something "big" and then reset things back. Things that always have an intriguing start, and then eventually folds into itself.

If you're going to do something, don't do the same circle of things. Peter and Felicia are together? Okay, commit to that. Do something different than what was going on before. Commit to them being serious with one another both in costume and OUT of costume. Don't treat it like a distraction or fishook. Commit! Peter and Mary Jane are together? Okay commit to that, actually let them start a family so you don't keep getting to 'reset things'. You're hinting at Peter, Felicia, MJ being a thing ever since Jean/Wolverine/Scott became a thing? Alright commit to that! Work with all three dynamics in a committal way, showing how all the characters have grown and how that both blends with their hero lives and their non-hero lives. Have Mayday be born. Have Felicity be born. Start building them up to be part of a Young Avengers team or something going forward, and let them be the ones that share the traits of a Young Peter or young character on the come up and have the heroes that are experienced help them through and grow.

Instead of Making Spider-Man a grown man whom is a seasoned hero in Spider-Man #30 and then a manchild who acts like an 18 year old in Spider-man #35. Make Spider-Man a grown man whom is a seasoned hero in Spider-Man #30 and still a grown man whom is a seasoned hero in Spider-Man #35 and save the kid stuff for the actual kid, like Mayday. Have Mayday represent the "Peter we all grew up with" with some perks and identity of her own. If the writers are so nostalgic for the "Peter they all grew up with" then take that time and energy into a 616 Mayday and translate those emotions into that, and see if it reaches this generation the way it reached them. Think of everything Into The Spider-verse did right with Miles and Peter. Now imagine a comic like that with Peter and Mayday before she gets her own 616 solo series. Connect someone to Peter that people and kids are going to relate to and connect with and let that be where you want to do these "Spider-Man makes mistake" stories instead of having Peter repeat the same "Responsibility" mistake over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and-

This. All of this.

[FFJamie94]

Honestly, we can say it again and again, but the main issue is simply that Disney Managment has more control on what happens with Spider-Man than editorial or any of the writers.
They see nothing more than "this is what Spider-Man should be and this is how it should go"
I like the new comics, they are fun, but they aren't connective with what has come before.

Spider-Man, more than any comic, feels more like a comic which with every new era, is more of a separate series rather than a follow up. It's more like "Spencer's run is the 94 animated series, Wells' run is The New animated series" rather than it being like Doctor Who, which each era has its own plotline and themes, but connects from one era to another.

I think current Spider-Man is fine, but I prefer other Spider related comics like Venom and even those minis which feature him.

[Huntsman Spider]

Honestly, we can say it again and again, but the main issue is simply that Disney Managment has more control on what happens with Spider-Man than editorial or any of the writers.
They see nothing more than "this is what Spider-Man should be and this is how it should go"
I like the new comics, they are fun, but they aren't connective with what has come before.

Spider-Man, more than any comic, feels more like a comic which with every new era, is more of a separate series rather than a follow up. It's more like "Spencer's run is the 94 animated series, Wells' run is The New animated series" rather than it being like Doctor Who, which each era has its own plotline and themes, but connects from one era to another.

I think current Spider-Man is fine, but I prefer other Spider related comics like Venom and even those minis which feature him.

If only, yeah . . .

[dornwolf]

Honestly, we can say it again and again, but the main issue is simply that Disney Managment has more control on what happens with Spider-Man than editorial or any of the writers.
They see nothing more than "this is what Spider-Man should be and this is how it should go"
I like the new comics, they are fun, but they aren't connective with what has come before.

Spider-Man, more than any comic, feels more like a comic which with every new era, is more of a separate series rather than a follow up. It's more like "Spencer's run is the 94 animated series, Wells' run is The New animated series" rather than it being like Doctor Who, which each era has its own plotline and themes, but connects from one era to another.

I think current Spider-Man is fine, but I prefer other Spider related comics like Venom and even those minis which feature him.

I wonder sometimes if we all over stage how much control Disney actually exerts on this stuff. Spode-man’s issues predate the Disney ownership by a good while. You also don’t ever really hear about Disney exerting control on the comics side like you have with Warner in the last few years. I sometimes honestly wonder if we as fans, he’ll if even some departments put way to much thought into what Disney wants when at the end of the day Disney is mostly thinking don’t cock up the character to the point he’s unusable.

[FFJamie94]

I wonder sometimes if we all over stage how much control Disney actually exerts on this stuff. Spode-man’s issues predate the Disney ownership by a good while. You also don’t ever really hear about Disney exerting control on the comics side like you have with Warner in the last few years. I sometimes honestly wonder if we as fans, he’ll if even some departments put way to much thought into what Disney wants when at the end of the day Disney is mostly thinking don’t cock up the character to the point he’s unusable.

I remember reading somewhere that Dan Slott said that even the EiC doesn't get final say on Spider-Man and that folks at Disney will direct the character and stuff.

Yeah, even before Disney, Spider-Man was off the track, and I do put it down to Editorial trying to fix which wasn't broken, but I do feel that Marvel misinterpret what Disney wants.

I actually think being on Spider-Man is the one character no one knows what to do with. It's not great to listen to fans 100% of the time because everyone wants something different, but you have this period which was highly popular and well remembered and fans do want it. But now we've got People who grew up post OMD, we have two sets of Spider-Man fans, and one of those is very vocal but is becoming more and more in the minority.

The problem with modern Spider-Man, is that both fan and Marvel can't let the marriage go. And it sucks. What Marvel need to do is let go of the teasing and just get on with what they want to do. Peter needs to progress outside of being misery porn and there needs to be a better grasp of the Character.
I think Spencer was going into the right direction, but it fell through at the last minute.

[Grapeweasel]

They still haven't come up with an adequate replacement for Steve Ditko.

[Alan2099]

The problem with Spider-man stories is that there was a story fifteen years ago that people didn't like and refuse to get over no matter how many times they resolve it.

[Lukmendes]

spoilers:

You called? I can see the issue some could have with it, the family were a little TOO functional, a 'lot more like the Waltons and a lot less like The Simpsons'. to quote Mr. Bush, but I was never bored by it

end of spoilers

I don't have a problem with them being too functional, it's more like they lacked traits to keep their interactions more amusing.

Characters can have interesting dynamics without drama, all that drama does is add some spice to it, but if the only thing the characters have going for them is drama, then the relationship is bad, RYV family just rather, okay-ish interactions, but lacked the things that can make Spidey and MJ's interactions fun.

IMO, they have two options… let Spidey finally age like he was doing until the 1990s and achieve new milestones, like being married again, having a baby and *shock* maybe even enter his 30s… this will open up new avenues for fresh storylines…. or reboot the whole Spidey line and start over fresh (kind of like Ultimate, but for 616).

Why are reboots something people suggest whenever a franchise goes bad?

Reboots are short term solutions, all that they do is slow down the problem, hardly they actually solve it.

Let's say they did reboot Spidey, and they tell some stories with this new Spidey, eventually he'll most likely reach the same point of being a franchise zombie, so now we have the same problem, but now with a young Spidey? Meh...

DC shows how reboots don't work, and Marvel is just as incompetent as they are.

This zombie Simpsons approach of just recycling a bunch of stock storylines that give the illusion of change but never actually change anything makes the comics depressingly meaningless. Like I’m watching someone stuck in a never ending cartoon. Which I think Spencer joked about at one point.

Wasn't a joke:



(ASM#60 vol 5).

And you best believe that if Marvel wanted the marriage back, it would happen in like 6 issues lmao. Look how quickly DC got Pre-Crisis Superman back and married with a kid.

It could happen in one issue if they wanted to, though knowing Marvel they'd make an event out of it, and then the event wouldn't really get 'em back together, or it would but then they'd break up 5 minutes later.

The problem is that Peter isn't allowed to do anything new or stuff that's happened in Alt Universes that isn't brought into the 616.

SHAKE THINGS UP!! Have him grow to the age of 35 and act like it. Make Peter/MJ/Felicia a committed relationship.

Man you really want this three-way relationship to be a thing lol.

Joe Kelly is doing a mini arc after Dark Web.

I want to know what happened at the end of Nick Spencer's run that Marvel has completely retreated to bringing back BND writers to take control of ASM?

Brevoort's disgusting sales method?

Honestly, we can say it again and again, but the main issue is simply that Disney Managment has more control on what happens with Spider-Man than editorial or any of the writers.
They see nothing more than "this is what Spider-Man should be and this is how it should go"

Problem with that is, Disney doesn't care lol.

Marvel had been fucking over Spidey with these nonsense with trying to make him go back to basics since clone saga, and then they did that again with OMD, both before Disney purchased Marvel.

Disney overall only cares about the real money makers, and comics stay around for, reasons, they have little reasons to interfere on something that makes such pathetically low amount of money that it doesn't even count as pocket change.

So yeah, as much as Disney has a lot of problems for existing, their influence on ASM seems to be minimal.

I actually think being on Spider-Man is the one character no one knows what to do with. It's not great to listen to fans 100% of the time because everyone wants something different, but you have this period which was highly popular and well remembered and fans do want it. But now we've got People who grew up post OMD, we have two sets of Spider-Man fans, and one of those is very vocal but is becoming more and more in the minority.

OMD haters have always been vocal, but the problem is, that's all they are, while I hear that ASM got a sales drop after OMD, I'm not sure how much, but regardless, this very forum is evidence that people keep reading stuff they don't like, and anyone giving money to Marvel while simultaneously not liking the current direction is part of the problem.

The problem with modern Spider-Man, is that both fan and Marvel can't let the marriage go. And it sucks. What Marvel need to do is let go of the teasing and just get on with what they want to do. Peter needs to progress outside of being misery porn and there needs to be a better grasp of the Character.

Marvel will only let the marriage go once it stops making money, teases about it bring people back lol.

I think Spencer was going into the right direction, but it fell through at the last minute.

Spencer's run had a lot of flaws, but man, even when the plot went bad, characters at had the "right" voice more often than not.

Hell, that's even a thing you can praise Clone Saga for at times, for me the story is unredeemable garbage, but plenty of times the characters were acting like they should, and when they didn't are moments where the story was much worse (Namely Maximum Clonage having Spidey joining Jackal at the end of the first issue).

The problem with Spider-man stories is that there was a story fifteen years ago that people didn't like and refuse to get over no matter how many times they resolve it.

If they never resolved OMD but actually started to tell better stories, I'd be fine with it.

Hell, Spencer's run had all of these hints about how it'd solve or acknowledge OMD, and the run was at its worse when it kept dangling it in front of everyone's faces, like when someone dangles some keys in front of a baby.

So yeah, OMD is just part of the problem, and hell, all the "solving" did was give Mephisto contradictory motivations to go after Spidey's ass, which was never the main problem with OMD to begin with.

[PCN24454]

How about we kill Peter off permanently? He seems to be at the root of all the problems. Better to have him be a perfect dead character like Uncle Ben than be a fallible living human being.

[dornwolf]

How about we kill Peter off permanently? He seems to be at the root of all the problems. Better to have him be a perfect dead character like Uncle Ben than be a fallible living human being.

Honestly considering how suicidal I find Peter lately. Sure why not. Let Miles be Amazing for awhile.

[HypnoHustler]

Reboot was my second choice after just letting the characters age which is what I prefer. But I’d argue against your assertion that the DC reboots weren’t always successful. The Crisis on Infinite Earths reboot worked for a good 20 years before DC got too bogged down again and messed things up.

[dornwolf]

Reboot was my second choice after just letting the characters age which is what I prefer. But I’d argue against your assertion that the DC reboots weren’t always successful. The Crisis on Infinite Earths reboot worked for a good 20 years before DC got too bogged down again and messed things up.

DC is their own worst enemy when it comes to reboots. The last major one New 52 might’ve actually worked if they A) actually rebooted everything Batman and Green Lantern with everyone else and B) had any form of a plan what so ever.

[Celgress]

....But yeah this is the first time I hearing the voice of the editorial of marvel Jesus that’s bad....

That's the main reason I shared the video - "nobody boo" holy crap that and the earlier Sinister Six remake storyline shilling which received zero crowd reaction was hard to watch. Thanks to the current editorial direction Peter is the stalest he's been in years if not decades.