The Problem With Spider-Man Comics Today

[Lukmendes]

Reboot was my second choice after just letting the characters age which is what I prefer. But I’d argue against your assertion that the DC reboots weren’t always successful. The Crisis on Infinite Earths reboot worked for a good 20 years before DC got too bogged down again and messed things up.

The Crisis reboot was pretty hit and miss, Supes in particular was castrated, although Diana benefit from it plenty, and ultimately since most of the setting was unchanged, it was basically illusion of change for the rest of the main universe... An illusion of change with about a billion contradictions when it comes to stuff like Justice League's story, but hey lol.

Either way it's still not much of a solution, a reboot deletes the past, and that removes the interesting bits too, and again, doesn't work long term with these companies, plus, allowing Marvel to de-age 616 Spidey would, be bad lol.

I also don't see Spidey being allowed to age as a necessary step to improve his stories too, since the problem is editorial and those BND writers lol.

DC is their own worst enemy when it comes to reboots. The last major one New 52 might’ve actually worked if they A) actually rebooted everything Batman and Green Lantern with everyone else and B) had any form of a plan what so ever.

The second point is the biggest problem DC had anyways lol.

That's the main reason I shared the video - "nobody boo" holy crap that and the earlier Sinister Six remake storyline shilling which received zero crowd reaction was hard to watch. Thanks to the current editorial direction Peter is the stalest he's been in years if not decades.

Lol, that "Nobody boo" sounds hilarious, when does it happen?

[Celgress]

...Lol, that "Nobody boo" sounds hilarious, when does it happen?

It happens at 8:20 in the video I posted.

And then at 8:39 (I mixed up the order of events) the super exaggerated nostalgia shilling that gets no reaction happens.


Edit -

The Editorial Panel clips remind me of the scenes from South Park in which all the people in San Francisco are smelling their own farts but can no longer tell the farts stink.

[Celgress]

It happens at 8:20 in the video I posted.

And then at 8:39 (I mixed up the order of events) the super exaggerated nostalgia shilling that gets no reaction happens.

Delete a double post.

[WebLurker]

Characters can have interesting dynamics without drama, all that drama does is add some spice to it, but if the only thing the characters have going for them is drama, then the relationship is bad, RYV family just rather, okay-ish interactions, but lacked the things that can make Spidey and MJ's interactions fun.

I kinda think that the shifting writers didn't help, since that tended to pull the series in different directions. I think that Conway did the most with it (like how the Venom arc was heavily grounded in MJ's own understandable insecurities in her family life). Given that it was also an ensemble series, that did tend to also divide "screen time" between characters and focus more on other combinations (e.g. Annie getting specific interactions with one of her parents).

Man you really want this three-way relationship to be a thing lol.

To each their own, but I don't really get it, either. Not sure any of the characters have been historically written as being open to the idea in and of itself. For example, the joke in that recent issue where MJ and Black Cat both hear that Peter had dreams about a threesome with them has them rolling their eyes at the thought. Granted, in theory, MJ and Black Cat could be against the idea of participating in a threesome but be okay with Peter maintaining simultaneous sexual relationships with them, but it seems like the characters have not been depicted as being interest in open relationships. Even the context of Peter's dreams just makes it sound like a normal nighttime dream jumbled together from his past relationships with them, not a fantasy he wants to act on.

Obviously, the writers can adjust things with a few keystrokes, so if the brass okayed the idea of Peter, MJ, and Black Cat having some kind of open relationship (whether it's just Peter being shared or MJ and Black Cat also developing a mutual romantic or friends with benefits relationship), then that would be the new status quo. Outside of the lack of setup in the stories, though, I kinda doubt it will happen. For starters, it would probably be a big marketing deal and, as of right now, the office really doesn't want Peter and MJ together. Also, given that polyamory is not exactly mainstream or universally accepted in Western culture, I could see Marvel wanting to avoid any controversy of a brand they make a big deal out of having a "family-friendly" reputation. Having everyone get together would also remove a piece of potential drama, which is what stories thrive on. There's also the detail that Black Cat has been more or less branded as the ex and isn't quite as popular as MJ.

Personally, I prefer Peter and MJ as couple by themselves. If the relationship was to be opened, I can follow that Black Cat would be the most logical choice (her and Peter rekindling something makes sense given their history and Black Cat does have a positive friendship with MJ), but I don't think the characters are built for it.

[Matt Rat]

The problem with Spider-man stories is that there was a story fifteen years ago that people didn't like and refuse to get over no matter how many times they resolve it.

1. Marvel themselves constantly remind us of what we lost and the event itself
2. People never got over 'Sins Past' and it got resolved after even longer
3. It's not fully resolved until reality snaps back to normal and everyone remembers their married.

[Kevinroc]

The problem with Spider-man stories is that there was a story fifteen years ago that people didn't like and refuse to get over no matter how many times they resolve it.

Gerry Conway, who has argued that Spider-Man should not have aged out of High School and that continuity is destructive to comics, referred to One More Day as a "fan-infuriating" event,

https://twitter.com/gerryconway/stat...97100065775616

This is why Marvel’s insistence on bending to older fans’ desire for “continuity” is so destructive. Yes, as one book put it recently, Marvel has the longest “continuous” story in fictional history…

…But that story longevity isn’t a benefit— it’s a curse, because it constantly needs retconning to make sense, and that retconning becomes increasingly awkward, culminating in fan-infuriating events like One More Day.

[Lukmendes]

It happens at 8:20 in the video I posted.

And then at 8:39 (I mixed up the order of events) the super exaggerated nostalgia shilling that gets no reaction happens. =D

Thanks.

Edit -

The Editorial Panel clips remind me of the scenes from South Park in which all the people in San Francisco are smelling their own farts but can no longer tell the farts stink.

I wonder if that's an accurate portrayal of editorial, 'cause there is the possibility that they know their farts stink but, still keep smelling it for reasons .

I kinda think that the shifting writers didn't help, since that tended to pull the series in different directions. I think that Conway did the most with it (like how the Venom arc was heavily grounded in MJ's own understandable insecurities in her family life). Given that it was also an ensemble series, that did tend to also divide "screen time" between characters and focus more on other combinations (e.g. Annie getting specific interactions with one of her parents).

Conway is the one who used it best, yeah, Stegman was only around to fill in once Conway decided to quit, Jody Houser was pretty meh overall.

And different combinations can work fine, but the point of it is to be an ensemble, and I didn't really care about the ensemble 'cause their interactions were kinda meh, it was at its best with Conway since Spidey and MJ could be more than Annie's cheerleaders lol.

To each their own, but I don't really get it, either. Not sure any of the characters have been historically written as being open to the idea in and of itself.

Considerings how Spidey himself mostly doesn't think about other women when he's dating someone, how MJ got jealous when it looked like he was flirting with someone else, and how Felicia got downright nasty when jealous to the point she threatened MJ, yeah...

Felicia has matured over the years and she can interact with MJ just fine, but that doesn't mean she'd be willing to date Spidey and MJ, specially since she never showed interest in MJ.

So yeah, it's a situation that would be out of character for everyone involved, which's bad enough as is, but now let's imagine Zeb Wells with his amazing writing skills, writing this.

Not sure what y'all imagined, but I'm pretty sure it would be a disservice to everyone involved, MJ would somehow have it worse lol.

For example, the joke in that recent issue where MJ and Black Cat both hear that Peter had dreams about a threesome with them has them rolling their eyes at the thought. Granted, in theory, MJ and Black Cat could be against the idea of participating in a threesome but be okay with Peter maintaining simultaneous sexual relationships with them, but it seems like the characters have not been depicted as being interest in open relationships. Even the context of Peter's dreams just makes it sound like a normal nighttime dream jumbled together from his past relationships with them, not a fantasy he wants to act on.

The way he words it implies he doesn't mind it aside from implied roughness, but yeah, having dreams about that which he seemingly enjoys, hardly means he'd be okay with it happening in real life, 'cause what happens in dreams and what you're okay with happening in real life are very different things.

I mean, ****, I once had a dream where Emma Frost tried to kill me with an axe, which didn't kill dream me, but that made her take over as the dream's protagonist, and she spent the rest of it running around mostly naked using invisibility powers to avoid the military that was hunting her, and I think dream me showed up once in a while too, it was hilarious, and also one of the two times I had a dream where I got sidelined and someone else became the dream's protagonist (Second time was after it, with X-23 and a blue Hunter from Resident Evil Outbreak, so kinda weird that happened with two X-Women), but either way, as funny as that was, and as much as I wouldn't mind something like that happening again for the sheer goofiness of it, I definitely wouldn't want anything like that to happen in real life lol.

Obviously, the writers can adjust things with a few keystrokes, so if the brass okayed the idea of Peter, MJ, and Black Cat having some kind of open relationship (whether it's just Peter being shared or MJ and Black Cat also developing a mutual romantic or friends with benefits relationship), then that would be the new status quo. Outside of the lack of setup in the stories, though, I kinda doubt it will happen. For starters, it would probably be a big marketing deal and, as of right now, the office really doesn't want Peter and MJ together. Also, given that polyamory is not exactly mainstream or universally accepted in Western culture, I could see Marvel wanting to avoid any controversy of a brand they make a big deal out of having a "family-friendly" reputation. Having everyone get together would also remove a piece of potential drama, which is what stories thrive on. There's also the detail that Black Cat has been more or less branded as the ex and isn't quite as popular as MJ.

Only point I disagree here is the lack of drama, because two people dating can already have plenty of drama, three people doing so? **** man, it could cause enough drama to be someone's super-villain origin .

But yeah, Marvel would need to do something like the Krakoa nonsense that's going on with the X-Men to even consider this, and the point of Krakoa is to be aggressively different from the past, which's why Cyke/Wolverine/Jean/Emma were in a relationship, but even that angle seems to be mostly gone too lol.

Personally, I prefer Peter and MJ as couple by themselves. If the relationship was to be opened, I can follow that Black Cat would be the most logical choice (her and Peter rekindling something makes sense given their history and Black Cat does have a positive friendship with MJ), but I don't think the characters are built for it.

Yeah if a third character were to get in, she'd be the most acceptable choice, but even then, her being the most acceptable choice doesn't mean it'd feel fitting, it just doesn't feel as impossible as Spidey and MJ starting a poly relationship with say, Betty, or even aunt May.

The way Spidey is written has him generally not showing interest in anyone else if he's dating someone, MJ herself is like that too (At least when she's dating Spidey), and so is Felicia mostly (She did cheat on Spidey with the Foreigner, though that was a conveoluted plan to have some pety revenge on Spidey, so she can help him out when he doesn't want her help to piss him off), so again, if it's out of character for everyone involved, why even make it happen? Sounds like a recipe for disaster even if I don't mention how crap ASM's writing quality is, 'cause if they can't even write regular Spidey/MJ or Spidey/Felicia properly, then them writing Spidey/Felicia/MJ sounds like it'd be the writing equivalent of a train crashing into a puppy orphanage.

3. It's not fully resolved until reality snaps back to normal and everyone remembers their married.

Does that include the part where everyone also remembers that Peter is Spidey and then the villains declare that hunting his family is open season again? 'Cause whenever OMD being undone is mentioned, this detail is conveniently left out.

Gerry Conway, who has argued that Spider-Man should not have aged out of High School and that continuity is destructive to comics, referred to One More Day as a "fan-infuriating" event,

https://twitter.com/gerryconway/stat...97100065775616

Man, of course it's fan infuriating, even if we ignore continuity, the story itself is bad with characters making the worst possible decision lol.

[Matt Rat]

Does that include the part where everyone also remembers that Peter is Spidey and then the villains declare that hunting his family is open season again? 'Cause whenever OMD being undone is mentioned, this detail is conveniently left out.

It doesn't necessarily have to be left out either. Peter and MJ being fugitives from the law and villains and forced to maybe travel beyond New York would make for a few years worth of sufficient status quo.

[marhawkman]

Does that include the part where everyone also remembers that Peter is Spidey and then the villains declare that hunting his family is open season again? 'Cause whenever OMD being undone is mentioned, this detail is conveniently left out.

See, this got brought up a LOT in the first Civil War arc. How many heroes already have that "problem"? Quite a lot actually.

Man, of course it's fan infuriating, even if we ignore continuity, the story itself is bad with characters making the worst possible decision lol.

Yeah, sounds like Conway wants to write a comic like Garfield where nothing ever really changes, and thus the outcome of the story has no weight.

[WebLurker]

Conway is the one who used it best, yeah, Stegman was only around to fill in once Conway decided to quit, Jody Houser was pretty meh overall.

Most of Stegman's run was finishing the action beats that Conway had set up, although I think he did fine with that character-centric issue about Normie. Houser did have her moments (MJ talking to Annie about her miscarriage and Peter and Wolverine discussing what it would mean if Annie had been cloned by an unknown agency were standouts), but I will concede that her run was pretty plot heavy (and it was a little odd that the Parkers got caught up in an X-Men villain's scheme).

And different combinations can work fine, but the point of it is to be an ensemble, and I didn't really care about the ensemble 'cause their interactions were kinda meh, it was at its best with Conway since Spidey and MJ could be more than Annie's cheerleaders lol.

Wonder if a longer run would've seen things turn up.

Considerings how Spidey himself mostly doesn't think about other women when he's dating someone, how MJ got jealous when it looked like he was flirting with someone else, and how Felicia got downright nasty when jealous to the point she threatened MJ, yeah...

Felicia has matured over the years and she can interact with MJ just fine, but that doesn't mean she'd be willing to date Spidey and MJ, specially since she never showed interest in MJ.

Frankly, I think trying to imagine MJ being into Black Cat is hardest hurdle (if it was going to be more than her just being okay with Peter hooking up with Felicia, too). She was attracted to Peter in part due to his responsible and stable nature. Even at her best, Black Cat isn't known for that and nothing comes to mind as an alternative hook.

In Black Cat's case, she's got a thrill junkie streak and her early relationship with Spider-Man did root in that. If she and MJ continued to be partners in crime and go on adventures, maybe something would spark there. It's not a lot, but it's something.

So yeah, it's a situation that would be out of character for everyone involved, which's bad enough as is, but now let's imagine Zeb Wells with his amazing writing skills, writing this.

Not sure what y'all imagined, but I'm pretty sure it would be a disservice to everyone involved, MJ would somehow have it worse lol.

Given that Wells seems to have his own preplanned agenda for his run, I seriously doubt he'd be setting up something like this, but I will concede that it's a premise that would be really easy to just turn into cheesecake for its own sake.

The way he words it implies he doesn't mind it aside from implied roughness, but yeah, having dreams about that which he seemingly enjoys, hardly means he'd be okay with it happening in real life, 'cause what happens in dreams and what you're okay with happening in real life are very different things.

I mean, ****, I once had a dream where Emma Frost tried to kill me with an axe, which didn't kill dream me, but that made her take over as the dream's protagonist, and she spent the rest of it running around mostly naked using invisibility powers to avoid the military that was hunting her, and I think dream me showed up once in a while too, it was hilarious, and also one of the two times I had a dream where I got sidelined and someone else became the dream's protagonist (Second time was after it, with X-23 and a blue Hunter from Resident Evil Outbreak, so kinda weird that happened with two X-Women), but either way, as funny as that was, and as much as I wouldn't mind something like that happening again for the sheer goofiness of it, I definitely wouldn't want anything like that to happen in real life lol.

Sure.

Only point I disagree here is the lack of drama, because two people dating can already have plenty of drama, three people doing so? **** man, it could cause enough drama to be someone's super-villain origin .

True, but it seems like the motivation for suggesting it in the first place is either to resolve conflict (who should Spidey be with?) with the most inclusive option possible or vicarious wish fulfillment.

But yeah, Marvel would need to do something like the Krakoa nonsense that's going on with the X-Men to even consider this, and the point of Krakoa is to be aggressively different from the past, which's why Cyke/Wolverine/Jean/Emma were in a relationship, but even that angle seems to be mostly gone too lol.

Skipped over most of the Krakoa cult stuff (only like one or two X-Men titles and I can wait until things get back to normal), but I got the impression that all that was more of "wink wink, nudge nudge" joke than anything serious. (Frankly, given how overplayed that love triangle was, having an open relationship would be something of a relief. Course, I'm one of those weirdos who thinks that Cyclops was far better off with Emma Frost, so why not have Jean and Wolverine get together; IMHO, Cyclops and Jean are one of the most boring couples ever made.)

Yeah if a third character were to get in, she'd be the most acceptable choice, but even then, her being the most acceptable choice doesn't mean it'd feel fitting, it just doesn't feel as impossible as Spidey and MJ starting a poly relationship with say, Betty, or even aunt May.

Suppose Black Cat is the only runner up love interest to have any degree of staying power, factoring in that Gwen died. Betty and Liz are kinda remembered, but Peter and Liz never took off to begin with. Betty was strongly implied to have had a brief affair with Peter way back when (and certainly did with Flash Thompson), but I can't picture her wanting to be a throuple or anything.

The way Spidey is written has him generally not showing interest in anyone else if he's dating someone, MJ herself is like that too (At least when she's dating Spidey), and so is Felicia mostly (She did cheat on Spidey with the Foreigner, though that was a conveoluted plan to have some pety revenge on Spidey, so she can help him out when he doesn't want her help to piss him off), so again, if it's out of character for everyone involved, why even make it happen? Sounds like a recipe for disaster even if I don't mention how crap ASM's writing quality is, 'cause if they can't even write regular Spidey/MJ or Spidey/Felicia properly, then them writing Spidey/Felicia/MJ sounds like it'd be the writing equivalent of a train crashing into a puppy orphanage.

As noted before, I think it's more wish fullfilment on the suggester's part than anything that would make sense as a story for the characters.

Does that include the part where everyone also remembers that Peter is Spidey and then the villains declare that hunting his family is open season again? 'Cause whenever OMD being undone is mentioned, this detail is conveniently left out.

Seems like the fan-preferred scenario is that Peter and MJ get their memories back and fix their relationship (at this point, I'd argue that it's the only viable option, given how much material has been written since the retcon first happened).

[Lukmendes]

It doesn't necessarily have to be left out either. Peter and MJ being fugitives from the law and villains and forced to maybe travel beyond New York would make for a few years worth of sufficient status quo.

That just sounds like MJ is being dragged into his mess again, which, while it can be fine for a bit, years of her not having a life outside of that could get pretty whatever for a character like hers'.

Like I'm not denying that if she had to, she would have to do it, but years of this? It'd just have her being dragged along...

See, this got brought up a LOT in the first Civil War arc. How many heroes already have that "problem"? Quite a lot actually.

Hopefully not as many make deal with the likes of Mephisto lol.

Yeah, sounds like Conway wants to write a comic like Garfield where nothing ever really changes, and thus the outcome of the story has no weight.

I hope he'd at least want to write something above Garfield in writing quality, 'cause that is the unfunniest cat I've ever seen, how and why that **** became so popular is beyond me, because it doesn't even look like it was funny at any point lol.

Most of Stegman's run was finishing the action beats that Conway had set up, although I think he did fine with that character-centric issue about Normie. Houser did have her moments (MJ talking to Annie about her miscarriage and Peter and Wolverine discussing what it would mean if Annie had been cloned by an unknown agency were standouts), but I will concede that her run was pretty plot heavy (and it was a little odd that the Parkers got caught up in an X-Men villain's scheme).

It's also kinda boring to pick Sinister as the X-villain for Spidey to deal with.

Like, he's some creepy dude with an obsession of getting people's DNA and making clones, so basically, a less insane Jackal, what the hell is the point of using another franchise's villain if he can maybe do the same thing?

Although I was told he didn't make clones, so less bad in that at least.

Reminds me that something similar is why I thought Superman vs Spider-Man was boring, it's just a Superman story with Spidey tagging along, you can remove Spidey and the plot doesn't change much, you can replace Otto with a janitor and it'd be the same since Otto mostly does nothing, it's just a story about Supes dealing with Luthor.

Superman and Spider-Man though, that was much better, Supes gets to deal with someone like Doom, Spidey fights Parasite, and he gets to contribute to the plot in more meaningful ways.

Wonder if a longer run would've seen things turn up.

It's a possibility, though I'm pretty sure Annie would still be the spotlight stealer, but at least Spidey and MJ would get some more moments if the Spider-Girls mini is any hint.

Frankly, I think trying to imagine MJ being into Black Cat is hardest hurdle (if it was going to be more than her just being okay with Peter hooking up with Felicia, too). She was attracted to Peter in part due to his responsible and stable nature. Even at her best, Black Cat isn't known for that and nothing comes to mind as an alternative hook.

Good pointm even when Spencer returned her to pre-OMD characterization, she still wanted to steal some of the heroes' stuff for herself.

In Black Cat's case, she's got a thrill junkie streak and her early relationship with Spider-Man did root in that. If she and MJ continued to be partners in crime and go on adventures, maybe something would spark there. It's not a lot, but it's something.

Well she did get to date Flash and I hear she almost got to marry him, and this was all before he got the Venom stuff (And ironically Felicia would probably be uncomfortable with the Venom nonsense 'cause she hasn't had good experiences with symbiotes lol), so while she is a thrill seeker, it doesn't look like that's her only type.

Though it depends on how and why she fell in love with Flash, 'cause if it just happened it can look off lol.

Given that Wells seems to have his own preplanned agenda for his run, I seriously doubt he'd be setting up something like this,

Unless the quotes I saw were out of context, it seems that Wells hasn't really planned out that well, like, he said something like "Let's see what Peter did", that for me sounded like he hasn't really planned.

TinkerSpider has pointed out multiple times that stuff the run claims, and what it shows, aren't lining up too, 'cause apparently everybody ever hates Spidey... And nobody really does lol.

but I will concede that it's a premise that would be really easy to just turn into cheesecake for its own sake.

I wasn't even thinking of cheesecake, I was imagining how it'd make everyone involved look annoying and out of character at best lol.

True, but it seems like the motivation for suggesting it in the first place is either to resolve conflict (who should Spidey be with?) with the most inclusive option possible or vicarious wish fulfillment.

Hm... Well I've definitely seen some suggesting it in a way that is more for the wish fulfillment lol.

For the "resolve conflict" nonsense, that's, boring.

Like, Spidey has drama in it, his healthiest relationship is with MJ, and there was drama.

Maybe it's because he's being an idiot as Spider-Man and MJ rolls her eyes, maybe he gets stressed and has a petty squabble with MJ, maybe it's the stress of her job, maybe it's Spidey being uncomfortable with a specific scene MJ has to do, maybe MJ feels like she's useless.

Stuff like that happened in the marriage, they aren't perfect for each other, because the characters were written with flaws, and flawed people may have conflicts if one does a thing the other doesn't like, and that is something that happened with them once in a while, and things like that enhanced the marriage because it developed them, showed them who they are as characters.

That isn't to say that the relationship only had drama, MJ and Spidey had plenty of moments where they're snarking at each other in friendly and romantic ways, going on dates, enjoying each other's company, shamelessly admitting how much they love each other, and fucking like rabbits.

So the relationship had highs and lows, and they enhanced each other, them having relationship problems can hurt the reader more because we've seen how they're like when they don't have any problems, and getting over the problems and them becoming happy again for a while is more rewarding.

Thinking of it, this is a thing that helped Spidey stand out in general, since he had plenty of highs and lows, and his victories could feel pretty rewarding since we've seen how miserable he can get when losing (Even if at time it's melodramatic), and the marriage was merely an extension of that.

Other relationships did try this too, but Betty was only really miserable, Gwen was boring, others like Debra were mostly miserable and forgettable, Felicia and MJ are only really the ones that had better balance of highs and lows (Although Felicia had more lows after a while, that felt natural because of her's and Spidey's characters).

So, making Spidey end up with Felicia and MJ as a way to resolve conflict? Boring, conflict is part of Spider-Man, and while modern writers exaggerated it to the point he may look like Daredevil-lite, it doesn't meant that the opposite should be done.

It's also kinda hilarious to have those three end up together for the sake of "resolving conflict" when Felicia wasn't even a blip on Spidey's radar for the most part of the marriage, and even in BND she was just a booty call who at some point said "Hey I don't really care about this relationship and neither should you" (By Wells by the way), so having Felicia join it between BND and Beyond ain't solving any conflict 'cause she was barely a romance option, thus, not causing any real conflict.

Even more hilarious if you think about how Slott wrote her to sound weirdly supportive of Spidey being with Carlie lol.

[Lukmendes]

Skipped over most of the Krakoa cult stuff (only like one or two X-Men titles and I can wait until things get back to normal), but I got the impression that all that was more of "wink wink, nudge nudge" joke than anything serious.

It did seem to be more of a "wink wink, nudge nudge" at first as you described, but after a while it seemed to be serious, there is a moment in X-Force where Jean was about to make out with Wolverine, and later there was a comment about one getting coffee breath from the other, and I think at least X-Men vs Fantastic Four hinted at something going on with Cyke and Emma.

After a while though, maybe around the time Hickman left, that's mostly gone, I think only Percy on X-Force hints that something is going on between Jean and Wolverine still (And if so, it's been toned down regardless), Cyke and Jean seem like they're with each other exclusively, Emma is alone to the point she's shown going to bed alone, and, I dunno about Wolverine.

(Frankly, given how overplayed that love triangle was, having an open relationship would be something of a relief.

The love triangle itself didn't seem that overplayed, Cyke/Jean/Wolverine was only briefly there in older comics, Cyke/Jean/Emma was part of Morrison's run, but that was about it, was gone once Jean died.

Although there were other love triangles, but as far as I know about X-Men, these two weren't there that much.

Of course, other media did it no favors, X-Men movies got a bit annoying with it, and it was there in Ultimate too.

Course, I'm one of those weirdos who thinks that Cyclops was far better off with Emma Frost, so why not have Jean and Wolverine get together; IMHO, Cyclops and Jean are one of the most boring couples ever made.)

Not really a "weirdo" opinion lol.

Like, the way Cyke got together with Emma is fucked up, but the relationship itself seemed like they had alright chemistry with each other.

Although I can't really comment of Cyke/Jean much, most of what I've seen of 'em was in Lee/Kirby X-Men run, and these two are the most boring motherfuckers in these old comics... Which's saying something because the old X-Men are a rough read, only really Beast and Xavier are any fun to read, and Xavier is more so because of how much of an absolute ******* he is lol.

Suppose Black Cat is the only runner up love interest to have any degree of staying power, factoring in that Gwen died. Betty and Liz are kinda remembered, but Peter and Liz never took off to begin with. Betty was strongly implied to have had a brief affair with Peter way back when (and certainly did with Flash Thompson), but I can't picture her wanting to be a throuple or anything.

Betty definitely had sex with Spidey in that affair:





(ASM#189)

This was also an odd phase Spidey was having, 'cause this is after he asked MJ to marry him (ASM#182) and she refused (ASM#183), and a few issues later, he had an affair with Betty (She was trying to get something before, but he refused until ASM#189), and around the same time, Claremont was writing Marvel Team-Up, and Claremont liked Spidey being a manwhore, because in 7 issues (MTU#79~85) he got kisseed by MJ (MTU#79, published months after ASM#183, same month as ASM#190), Cissy Ironwood was shown as his girlfriend (MTU#80 and #81), and after then he had a story with Natasha (Starts on MTU#82) Natasha kissed him in a moment of panic, which he admitted to himself he had a crush on Black Widow (MTU#84), and she admitted to him was kinda mutual (MTU#85), but she decided to not pursue it 'cause it was Nancy Rushman's feeling's, not hers' (She was amnesiac and thought she was a teacher), and this happened while he was still dating Cissy, and she shows up twice after this before being thrown into limbo (MTU Annual#2 and #90).

**** like this is why I say Spidey is mostly focused on one chick when dating, 'cause this Spider-Manwhore era is a huge exception lol.

One thing that could make this even more complicated is that, Felicia debutted in ASM#194 and her story finished in #195, the MTU story with Natasha ended around the time #196 was published, and while Felicia wasn't a love interest at the time, she did seem to have a crush on him too (I think it was vague if she did have one for real or was pretending to have one to manipulate him, but her next appearances by the same writer, Wolfman, who created her, confirmed it was legit, though it was an obsessive love because she got fucked in the head after her father died, and then when Stern brought her back he retconned the last bit into a lie to avoid going to jail), and #196 itself is also where Debra debuts, and she was gonna have a crush on Spidey too... Basically what I'm saying is, he had a serious case of pussy magnetism on top of being a manwhore, he might as well have become a porn protagonist at the time.

Seems like the fan-preferred scenario is that Peter and MJ get their memories back and fix their relationship (at this point, I'd argue that it's the only viable option, given how much material has been written since the retcon first happened).

I get the feeling that if Marvel restored their memories, they would avoid getting 'em back together lol.

[Agent Z]

Does that include the part where everyone also remembers that Peter is Spidey and then the villains declare that hunting his family is open season again? 'Cause whenever OMD being undone is mentioned, this detail is conveniently left out.

With how interconnected the Marvel universe is supposed to be, there is no reason why Peter, and any other hero for that matter, hasn't formed a proper network to protect civilian friends and family from villain attacks.

[Alex_Of_X]

I think only Percy on X-Force that something is going on between Jean and Wolverine still (And if so, it's been toned down regardless)

FN-eijpWYAUvlfW.jpg

This year's X-Lives of Wolverine #5, i believe. It's the "Live Xavier POV" for me T.T

[Lukmendes]

FN-eijpWYAUvlfW.jpg

This year's X-Lives of Wolverine #5, i believe. It's the "Live Xavier POV" for me T.T

Well, this is by Percy too lol.

I did see some saying on X-forums he wasn't letting go of that, maybe they were talking about this ****