What would have been the fate of the Skywalker family in Lucas sequel plan?

[godisawesome]

Are there any chance of there being any new skywaker's being introduced?

We've got nothing to work with right now besides raw speculation and observation.

I think there is some possibility of revealing Luke or Ben had a kid who simply wasn't on screen during the ST... but LFL has to want a new Skywalker and be willing to put up with the small shitstorm of Sequel Trilogy arguments kicked into high gear years after their "best by" date. And I think modern LFL has no stomach for that.

It's hard to see current LFL as wanting any new Skywalkers since they approved and then reinforced The Last Jedi putting the family on the road to extinction; if there *is* anyone in Star Wars fandom who genuinely was sick of Skywalker family stories beyond the Lucas characters, they might be employed with LFL right now. TLJ cut off any chance of Rey being a "real" Skywalker because going back on TLJ's answer would have been too much of a mea culpa for people in Hollywood, and because Kylo couldn't survive the next film without clearly usurping Rey's stated position as the new lead of the Saga and requiring *both* a "confession" of bias and a mea culpa from LFL.

...Of course, at the same time, LFL also clearly had a crush on Kylo and subconsciously wanted to make the ST all about him, which might imply some of them got buyer's remorse for some of the ST's decisions when they realized he'd have to die to save face on their screwing over Rey. It's possible that some of LFL's own displeasure with The Rise of Skywalker is that it "had" to kill Kylo when, on some level, they'd been planning for the next Kylo-centric Post-ST stories in their heads.

And of course, we can see that there is a hunger for telling Luke Skywalker stories before TLJ being offset and constricted by the "need" to defend TLJ's directions for him and the awkwardness caused by less divisive Luke portrayals that don't seem to plausibly align with TLJ being more popular than TLJ or anything that would set it up. I mean, Pablo Hidalgo seems irritated and sensitive about the fact a very fan-friendly version of Luke in The Mandalorian got far more tears and love than TLJ, enough to be a bit of a prick on social media about it, and the rest of LFL might be coming from a similar place of being upset that the more "fan service-y" direction they rejected seems to resonate more.

...Which leaves two possible ways to bring the family back, both of which would aggravate something with the fanbase post-ST. Luke could get an even more anti-TLJ style story that gets him a love interest and a kid for Rey to find and train or protect, but that would be attacked by TLJ fans of Sad!Luke and old Rey Skywalker fans for admitting they were right about what the story needed and making fun of them for years. Ben could get a love interest off panel and a kid for Rey to find, but that would be attacked by TLJ critics as yet more sign of bias towards Kylo and from Rey fans sick for seeing her effectively replaced by Kylo yet again.

Like... a lot of this is the larger, holistic reason why Rey really should have just been a Skywalker or Solo, or why Kylo should have just stayed a loathsome, hated character.

[David Walton]

I genuinely think that Abrams fell in love with a stupid mystery box idea he then applied to a Solo/Skywalker kid, didn't change anything in the setup around that character (thus why any other legacy or answer would suck for not just for the character, but for the franchise as a whole), and then LFL and Rian Johnson got so indignant at a mystery having a predictable answer they then went with the stupidest and worst answer they could just to be surprising, resulting in them not caring about Rey or what they'd done until they realized Kylo was doomed to end the Skywalker family story on a wet fart of an ending - at which point they still didn't care about Rey, and were arrogant enough to assume that giving Kylo an obligatory redemption would be good enough for the family story.

That's as perfect a summation of the ST as I've ever heard.

[Tobei Miyake]

Are there any chance of there being any new skywaker's being introduced?

Did George Lucas ever want Luke to be married? It doesn't seem like he did.

And the way Luke was portrayed in The Last Jedi may have come from George Lucas in part.

A new Solo would be about the only Vader grandchildren that we were going to see, I would say. And that would have been enough me, I liked Kylo Ren. And I probably would have liked what George Lucas had come up with too.

[ChrisIII]

Mara Jade actually was kind of absent from a lot of the 90's EU as well after the Zahn trilogy, with a few exceptions, and mainly just then as a supporting character, but I don't think she was that involved with Luke....it was mainly her smuggling connections. She didn't really make a huge reappearance until the end of the Bantam line with Zahn closing that out.


The only exception I think was the game Mysteries of the Sith, an expansion to Jedi Knight, where she was teamed with Kyle Katarn.

[Jokerz79]

Did George Lucas ever want Luke to be married? It doesn't seem like he did.

And the way Luke was portrayed in The Last Jedi may have come from George Lucas in part.

A new Solo would be about the only Vader grandchildren that we were going to see, I would say. And that would have been enough me, I liked Kylo Ren. And I probably would have liked what George Lucas had come up with too.

Lucas has a history of rewriting his own history. I Mean when ANH ended there was no plans for Vader to be Luke or when ESB ended for Leia to be the sister. But Lucas now claims he always had the 6 movies planned from the beginning.

While George never considered the EU canon to the films and definitely couldn't sign off on everything, I think something like Luke marrying had to come across his desk before being done. But he has gone on the record saying no Jedi don't marry and thus Luke wouldn't, but I believe that's just an idea he become obsessed with while making the Prequels and now pretends it was always his intent.

[godisawesome]

Lucas has a history of rewriting his own history. I Mean when ANH ended there was no plans for Vader to be Luke or when ESB ended for Leia to be the sister. But Lucas now claims he always had the 6 movies planned from the beginning.

While George never considered the EU canon to the films and definitely couldn't sign off on everything, I think something like Luke marrying had to come across his desk before being done. But he has gone on the record saying no Jedi don't marry and thus Luke wouldn't, but I believe that's just an idea he become obsessed with while making the Prequels and now pretends it was always his intent.

I think there’s even more nuance and chaos here - I think Lucas 100% approved the Luke and Mara marriage at the time from his business side, while rejecting it in his own mind as a creator, but largely because Luke is something of his idealized author avatar dedicated to a cause, while some of his “no attachments” ruling on the PT was also like that… but also soemthing eh and no problem de facto ignoring when he wanted to (like his plans fo Assaj Ventress and Quinlan Voss, and the always sort of contradictory nature of Anakin’s redemption.)

Lucas the businessman recognized that his company’s literary side hustles would benefit immensely from Luke getting hitched - because, objectively, a married Luke with kids is far more immediately profitable as a concept and not actually enough of a creative problem. To deny it - much like why eventually EVERY Star Wars creator eventually developed an area where they want a Jedi to have an attachment and ignore their reasons for not doing it earlier.

But yeah, Lucas the perfectionist, semi-control freak creator didn’t want “his” Luke married for personal and creative reasons.

On another note, as much as the idea of that worthless ****-stain Ben Solo, coasting wholly and only on the privilege of his race, gender, and family history breeding another kid off screen annoys me… but I could stand it if we tapped down the in-universe hypocritical bullshit pretending this hypothetical kid was deprived of a good father or that Rey should want to raise her assaulter’s kid, and maybe had Rey work out some **** from the ST.

Imagine how much better the situation is if Rey finds Ben’s kid with someone who hid their child from him because he was clearly brainwashed and diabolical, but Rey has to struggle with some paranoia and trauma from having her will stripped away by Snoke/Palpatine into caring for Kylo, giving her some further issues on top of wanting to give the Skywalker family back something.

[ChrisIII]

I think the Luke/Leia marriage thing happened before the Jedi don't get married thing was set in stone in AOTC. Also, it was also generally assumed that Jedi could be trained at any age, but TPM seemed to indicate the Jedi mainly looked for force-sensitive infants who had yet to form bonds (Also in a twisted form, the First Order's main stormtrooper program). Although Yoda does say something to that effect in ESB, it's not really brought up as part of Jedi rules until TPM.


For instance, the very first prequel trilogy tie-in comics with Ki-Adi-Mundi had him not only married, but with two wives! Of course this was semi-retconned later with the Clone Wars media saying the Jedi made an exception because his planet had low birth rates, and also his family was killed off-panel during the war as a sort of hand-wave for the whole thing.




Earlier on part of the Tales of the Jedi comics had Nomi Sunrider married (although quickly widowed) and with a daughter.

Luke also had a few other short-term romances in the EU before settling down with Jade. On Jade's side there was even a slight thing with Lando for a second.

[Xwho]

I think there’s even more nuance and chaos here - I think Lucas 100% approved the Luke and Mara marriage at the time from his business side, while rejecting it in his own mind as a creator, but largely because Luke is something of his idealized author avatar dedicated to a cause, while some of his “no attachments” ruling on the PT was also like that… but also soemthing eh and no problem de facto ignoring when he wanted to (like his plans fo Assaj Ventress and Quinlan Voss, and the always sort of contradictory nature of Anakin’s redemption.)

Lucas the businessman recognized that his company’s literary side hustles would benefit immensely from Luke getting hitched - because, objectively, a married Luke with kids is far more immediately profitable as a concept and not actually enough of a creative problem. To deny it - much like why eventually EVERY Star Wars creator eventually developed an area where they want a Jedi to have an attachment and ignore their reasons for not doing it earlier.

But yeah, Lucas the perfectionist, semi-control freak creator didn’t want “his” Luke married for personal and creative reasons.

On another note, as much as the idea of that worthless ****-stain Ben Solo, coasting wholly and only on the privilege of his race, gender, and family history breeding another kid off screen annoys me… but I could stand it if we tapped down the in-universe hypocritical bullshit pretending this hypothetical kid was deprived of a good father or that Rey should want to raise her assaulter’s kid, and maybe had Rey work out some **** from the ST.

Imagine how much better the situation is if Rey finds Ben’s kid with someone who hid their child from him because he was clearly brainwashed and diabolical, but Rey has to struggle with some paranoia and trauma from having her will stripped away by Snoke/Palpatine into caring for Kylo, giving her some further issues on top of wanting to give the Skywalker family back something.

Why did Lucas make it so Jedi are not supposed to have romantic relationships and Luke is not supposed to get married?

Has it ever been said why at all?

[godisawesome]

Why did Lucas make it so Jedi are not supposed to have romantic relationships and Luke is not supposed to get married?

Has it ever been said why at all?

I believe he has somewhere said that his idea of the Jedi eventually evolved into a sort of more “monkish” portrayal than initially supposed, esepcially by the time of AOTC - inspired a bit by western Christian monks’ vows of celibacy to further dedicate themselves to God, and by eastern Buddhist monk’s commitment to detachment from the material plane.

You could sort of see some of this creeping up in TPM with the decision to portray Jedi as wanting to raise babies instead of even kids in TPM, and being wary of Anakin’s attachment to Padme… but I think the specific decision to axe marriages came in when Lucas wanted to do a “forbidden romance” angle in AOTC.

I believe the idealized answer “in universe” is supposed to be as stated - that the Jedi are so dedicated to the larger Force that they “should” neither commit to anything as important as marriage over the Force (like western style monks) but even more importantly shouldn’t become too “attached” to anyone in the physical realm when the Force exists beyond it, and thus either commitment or attachment could drag them to the dark side.

…But I also personally think it’s a bit of bullshit that only really works as a flawed dogma caused by reactionaries, because of the very nature of Star Wars is, at its core, a Romantic Adventure film franchise in western pop culture… and a rule that literally *every* creator who’s ever tried to treat it as sacrosanct has eventually broken for a preferred couple on their part.

Since Star Wars is a Romantic Adventure story, the relationships between the characters will always take precedence over whatever ideal of “letting go of your attachments” is supposedly sacrosanct to the creator’s vision - Anakin is just as much redeemed by his attachment to his son Luke as he was corrupted by his attacheemnt to his wife Padme, Ben Solo as a character separate from Kylo only exists because of LFL portraying everyone’s attachment to him as a good thing, Lucas was totally on board for having Assaj Ventress’s love for Quinlan Vos keep Quinlan from falling in the cancelled Clone Wars episodes, and as much as Dave Filoni’s occasionally endorsed “no attachments” he also made Hera and Kanan a de facto married couple.

I honestly think a lot of the current endorsement of it is in an attempt to defend the decision to not have Luke married with kids as he was in Legends - started by Luke having his own personal issues with the idea of his creation getting a more fulfilling family life than he had on every level, and from modern LFL because they want to both honor Lucas and pretend that TLJ was a well-written movie.

And they probably also support it because a lot of Star Wars creators have proven themselves surprisingly bad at romance as well.

[krazijoe]

Why did Lucas make it so Jedi are not supposed to have romantic relationships and Luke is not supposed to get married?

Has it ever been said why at all?

Didn't you learn anything from Episodes 1-3? Women turn male Jedi's to the Dark Side!

[godisawesome]

Didn't you learn anything from Episodes 1-3? Women turn male Jedi's to the Dark Side!

"...Unless the writer wants to avoid that this time, just once I promise, in which case it's totally cool, dudes!"

I still say the biggest farce in official LFL "doctrine" is the attempt to say they or Lucas take the "no attachments" jargon seriously; they're constantly breaking it or disproving it whenever they want to, then suddenly breaking it out and preaching about it with word-salad nonsense whenever they don't want to do another.

It's always "no attachments is a solid, unimpeachable ruling" whenever someone wonders if Luke could have gotten hitched in the new continuity like he did in the old one, or whenever someone brings up the idea of Rey and Finn, or if someone argues that Rebels could have used more outright romantic scenes between Kanan and Hera... and then it's suddenly completely ignored if Lucas wants Assaj Ventress and Quinlan Voss to redeem each other through love in a TCW arc, or if LFL wants to pimp out Rey to Kylo, an in general whenever someone wants to focus on how positive family connections are.

And its always some nonsensical hemming and hawing to try and obfuscate what attachment is whenever someone starst pointing out that Anakin doesn't get redeemed and Luke doesn't avoid the dark side without their familial relationship, because otherwise the fact that exclusive, familial love obviously saved the day points to the "no attachments" rule best fitting as a "good intentions, bad doctrine" idea, as it likely was originally when AOTC was written and as Legends treated it... because then LFL has to learn how to write quality love stories, and they're insecure about that.

[ChrisIII]

Vos had a girlfriend and a son in his original comic arc too. Then again he was hardly an "orthodox" Jedi.

[godisawesome]

Vos had a girlfriend and a son in his original comic arc too. Then again he was hardly an "orthodox" Jedi.

That’s sort of my point - almost none of the Jedi who actually get focused on and get a long story are ever orthodox, or stay that way for long, because the writers inevitably get bored with Orthodox Jedi #327, and I think LFL trying to enforce orthodoxy might be further decreasing the number of Jedi based stories they do and how comparatively unpopular they remain compared to their heyday.

Quinlan Vos isn’t orthodox. Kanan wasn’t orthodox. Ezra isn’t orthodox. Pretty much none of the popular Legends Jedi were orthodox: Corran, Kyle, Zayne, all the Video Game Jedi (especially since BioWare intentionally averted the idea of the no attachments policy meaning *anything*).

And the Skywalkers certainly aren’t orthodox… unless LFL wants to decree Luke wouldn’t get married, in which case suddenly he is, because they care more about keeping him single then having him be written in character. Even Obi-Wan has a romance now, and he and Yoda’s whole plan relied on neglecting everything orthodox, only for Luke to succeed because he goes even further.

Meanwhile, LFL makes the High Republic series about largely orthodox Jedi… and it’s reeeeaaaalllly quiet.

[GAP]

Reading this thread made me realize that Legends was better in some ways and worse in others. I also think George Lucus is not always reliable when it comes to his word on the series.

[ChrisIII]

Lucas has always sort of had a revisionist history of how Star Wars was written, at least; around the time of the prequels he was saying that he pretty much had the whole outline for the story in place in 1977, Vader twist included, which isn't really true. Sure, some ideas such as Wookies fighting the Empire, a city planet etc made it into later films, but the same can really be said of any sequel, really.

I kind of saw it as part of him trying to deflect from criticism of the prequels' story.